87 replies to this topic

[name51875]

Anyone who ever played Mechwarrior 4 Mercenaries/Vengeance mostly know that a single Flea (20 Tons) VS Atlas (100 Tons) will win againts the Atlas, because the Atlas can't target the Flea if it stick to the Atlas feet (The Atlas unable to rotate his torso Y Axis to shoot the small size Flea) and the Flea can shoot the Atlas legs till both destroyed without fear and the Atlas will blow up, judging from this, can Piranha Games prevent this happen in MWO?

Edited by Viper Centurion, 22 November 2011 - 10:25 AM.

[Hohiro Kurita]

Yes and fortunately MW4 was literally the worst BT/MW game ever made - including MechAssault 1 and 2. That happened in MW3 and MW2 as well, but it isn't unrealistic. If you are a good enough pilot, a medium mech (not sure about a light - maybe) can take down an assault mech with some effort.

[KnowBuddy]

I don't think it's necessary to prevent this from happening. If you choose to use an assault for more firepower at the expense of speed and turning rate, you should naturally have difficulty hitting a smaller, much more nimble opponent. The fact that it would take that smaller opponent quite a while to chip away at your vastly superior armor just reinforces the sound tactical wisdom of not lone-wolfing or Leeroy Jenkins-ing.

Not that the MW4 implementation was great, but from what we've heard from Pirahna, it sounds like they'll be working hard to make sure light and medium mechs stay viable in some way even when assaults are common.

[Hohiro Kurita]

It was common practice for S-cats to alpha strike circle strafe heavier mechs with ER Small Lasers in MW3, and it always worked. You rarely ever died.

Edited by Hohiro Kurita, 22 November 2011 - 09:38 AM.

[EDMW CSN]

If you hate lights, instead of begging devs to prevent lights from raping assaults, train up to be a proper light pilot then.
When you realized you can pretty much regularly kill light mech players in multiplayer with a light yourself, you can easily stand toe to toe or outright destroy any other heavier classes.

Even if you can't shoot straight in a light at least get handy with a narc, you will help your LRM boats kill many mechs far more than your tonnage.

Edited by [EDMW]CSN, 22 November 2011 - 09:53 AM.

[Quinn Allard]

Never had that issue. For me, everytime I saw a Light on the battlefield, I blew off its leg to slow it down. Then it was a turkey shoot. Remember this will be Lance dependant, so if you do get in close to my Atlas my lance will focus on you. Yes, there will be good Light pilots, however, there will be good Heavy and Assault pilots as well.

[name51875]

[EDMW]CSN, on 22 November 2011 - 09:52 AM, said:

If you hate lights, instead of begging devs to prevent lights from raping assaults, train up to be a proper light pilot then.
When you realized you can pretty much regularly kill light mech players in multiplayer with a light yourself, you can easily stand toe to toe or outright destroy any other heavier classes.

Even if you can't shoot straight in a light at least get handy with a narc, you will help your LRM boats kill many mechs far more than your tonnage.

Actually i use this method in MW4 use light mechs, stick to the legs of the big guys, shoot with small laser, etc. Watch em blow up

[Adridos]

I think they should balance the fight, but exploiting isn't they way the should do it.

Edited by Adridos, 22 November 2011 - 10:32 AM.

[Riptor]

Im more worried about Assaults VS mediums and lighter heavys

Most IS mediums are not fast enough to get away without eating an alpha strike and are not armored enough to survive one too. Heavys are even slower.. sure they pack more of a punch and more armor bu are longer exposed to enemy alpha strikes.

As a quick light mech and maybe even having jumpjets i can make a quick escape over or ontop of a building.

Guess jumpjets are a must to escape the wrath of the assault boats.

[Hagan]

A good way to combat this is knockback. If an Atlas is moving, a light mech isn't going to stop it in its tracks by standing in its way. Physical damage would occur and if we're lucky, the light pilot would have to fight to keep his mech upright whilst it reeled from the impact. How does that strike people as an idea?

[Yeach]

And how is this bad. Its like a rock-scissors-paper approach
Light > Assault
Medium > Light
Heavy > Medium
Assault > Heavy

But in reality in MW4 although 1v1 a light mech can run circles and kill an assault mech based on attrition, when there are more mechs and better coordination, the assault mechs will beat the light mechs most of the time.

[Belrick]

KnowBuddy, on 22 November 2011 - 09:28 AM, said:

I don't think it's necessary to prevent this from happening. If you choose to use an assault for more firepower at the expense of speed and turning rate, you should naturally have difficulty hitting a smaller, much more nimble opponent. The fact that it would take that smaller opponent quite a while to chip away at your vastly superior armor just reinforces the sound tactical wisdom of not lone-wolfing or Leeroy Jenkins-ing.

Not that the MW4 implementation was great, but from what we've heard from Pirahna, it sounds like they'll be working hard to make sure light and medium mechs stay viable in some way even when assaults are common.

This this and this.

To the OP:

There was a button to press that changed your view and aimed pretty much directly down. That mitigated a lot of the problems you are describing. In third person view, getting swamped by light mechs as an assault wasn't a problem, as you could always see them coming, and it was your own fault if you didn't blow them away with 100% accurate pinpoint fire.

If what you are complaining about is that the torso doesn't rotate fast enough to track a circle strafing light, then I say good.

Why in the world would it be balanced to have assault mechs that are as agile as light mechs? If someone goes out unsupported in an assault mech and dies because they are circle strafed, they deserve it. Don't leave your lance mates, and ask for help when this happens.

Edited by Belrick, 22 November 2011 - 12:03 PM.

[Cattra Kell]

Just giving a quick read here but:

KnowBuddy, on 22 November 2011 - 09:28 AM, said:

I don't think it's necessary to prevent this from happening. If you choose to use an assault for more firepower at the expense of speed and turning rate, you should naturally have difficulty hitting a smaller, much more nimble opponent. The fact that it would take that smaller opponent quite a while to chip away at your vastly superior armor just reinforces the sound tactical wisdom of not lone-wolfing or Leeroy Jenkins-ing.

This 1000 times the force of the sun.

The light mech is all about movement, scouting and hit and run tactics including running circles around mechs that it knows won't hit it. Its one of its strengths, but on the flip coin usually when fighting an Assault mech, if that Assault mech gets two to three hits on you with key weapons (PPC's, Gauss, AC's, etc) then you are hurting pretty hard. The key feature and advantage of the light mech is its manoeuvrability and speed in trade for hard hitting power.

On the Assault side you have a slow walking and moving tank with a ton of firepower. Most Assault mechs are actually to play either forward movement in a lance, or fire support. If your lance allowed a light mech to get close to you and start dancing around you then that is either: 1. your fault for not seeing the light mech, 2. your lance for not telling you and finally 3. your fault for taking the Assault mech because you know there is a trade of speed / manoeuvrability for guns.

To sum things up I think Belrick said it the best:

Belrick, on 22 November 2011 - 12:01 PM, said:

If what you are complaining about is that the torso doesn't rotate fast enough to track a circle strafing light, then I say good.

Why in the world would it be balanced to have assault mechs that are as agile as light mechs? If someone goes out unsupported in an assault mech and dies because they are circle strafed, they deserve it. Don't leave your lance mates, and ask for help when this happens.

[Jervinator]

Maybe I missed something, but it seems to me that any decent Assault mech can blow a Light away before it gets that close, and any decent lance will protect you if you ***** up and let a Light get that close.

Either way, the only way a Light can survive is if you can't shoot straight and your lance is uncoordinated.

[sgtmack]

If the terrain isn't wide open, and your lance isn't standing shoulder to shoulder, a light might sneak up and shoot your assault in the butt. It's the price you pay for having all that firepower. Crippling the lights so they can't have at least a slight chance against heavies would mean every one has to drive an assault. It doesn't sound like they are planning on making the heavy mechs invincible. Which is good. This should be about strategy and tactics and teamwork.
Of course, I would prefer to spot you with my light scout and let long range weapons take out your assault. It's a lot safer for me.

[Orzorn]

If you ran with your lance members this wouldn't be a problem. A flea can out maneuver an Atlas, but it can't out maneuver two people at once.

[Barantor]

If you are worried about this because of an urban environment then you need to realize that most assaults don't do that well in that environment either. A light can hide behind buildings and dart between them easier. It can get behind an assault, launch a volley and get away before the assault can turn around.

Light mech lances in the 4th succession war often tore up heavier lances with some hit and run tactics that were developed. It seems MWO will be more about unit tactics than one assault being able to take on everything.

[Agent 0 Fortune]

So thats whey they put 4 mechs in a lance instead of 1. That is one of the reasons I like the emphasis on "roles" in MWO. You really don't want your Atlas wasting time on light mech anyway, put your harrasser on it.

Hopefully in the future we will learn more about mech roles, and how they fit in with existing mech selection, there is a lot more to it than just tonage. A light mech does not make recon (just as the Panther), nor does an assault class mech always mean thumper (charger), although some mechs are more naturally suited to differnt roles.

Even as mechs are designated into roles, so are lances, a lance could 'go all in' with a bunch of close range thumpers hoping to overwhelm a well balanced lance.

[Kenyon Burguess]

dont 1v1. thats what your lancemates are for. the assault is the damage centerpiece of the unit. the mediums protect it. and the light mechs scout ahead for targets.

[Undead]

Hagan, on 22 November 2011 - 10:39 AM, said:

A good way to combat this is knockback. If an Atlas is moving, a light mech isn't going to stop it in its tracks by standing in its way. Physical damage would occur and if we're lucky, the light pilot would have to fight to keep his mech upright whilst it reeled from the impact. How does that strike people as an idea?

I like the sound of this. SInce it doesn't sound like we're going to see melee combat, I think there should at least be some sort of collision damage and/or charge attacks. An Atlas running into a Flea would be like a semi smashing into a golf cart.