49 replies to this topic

[evilC]

So I am finally biting the bullet on trying to make the move to a throttle unit as my left hand device (Speed / Steering) - however, nothing on the market - no matter the cost - meets my needs.

I want:
Throttle unit with a "rudder rocker" for steering.
6+ buttons
2 Hat switches.
Center Detent (Notch to stop movement).


I have a TM T-Flight Hotas X (AKA Top Gun Afterburner) and a Saitek X-45.

I am currently looking at using the Hotas X as the rudder rocker is way more comfortable to use at full throttle than the Saitek. They are also way cheaper and I have two of them, so defo as a first project I intend to mod the Hotas X.

This is what a Hotas X looks like:


Current planned mods include:

• Remove IDLE and AFTERBURNER detents at ~25% and ~75% positions.
  
  This involves pouring glue into the two notches on the plate that holds the throttle in place - DONE.
  
• Add a center (50%) detent, so the throttle stops in the middle position.
  
  (Remove some plastic using a Dremel in between the two holes I filled in - DONE.
  
• Replace all internal electronics (Cheap and nasty 8-bit ADC) with a 12-bit BU0836 board.
  
• Replace both Potentiometers with Hall Sensors.
  
  Throttle seems to be a straightforward "bic Pen" type mod, rudder is gonna be a bit harder...
  
• Add 2 extra buttons and 2 hat switches.
  
  2 Panel mount buttons and 2 breakout boards for the extra Hat Switches.
  Will probs require some Polymorph to build a mounting bracket, plus some Sugru to make Hat Switch covers.
  
• Remove extra play in rudder rocker.
  
  Pad out with glue, then sand down?

If anyone is interested, I can post pics and stuff.


Current Bill Of Materials:

Hotas X's can be picked up for about £20 - £30
£30 for the BU8036 board.
£20 for hat switches.
~£10 for buttons.
~£20 on electronics bits (Stripboard, Diodes., IDC headers)
£40 on materials (Polymorph, Sugru, DB25 cables etc) - though I do not expect to use all of this.

Plus a bunch on tools.

Edited by evilC, 04 December 2014 - 11:41 AM.

[evilC]

Detent Mod

Purpose:
A "Detent" is a slight stop in the stick, so you can feel when it is in a given position.

If you own an older "Top Gun Afterburner II" model, it will have two detents - one at ~25% ("IDLE") and one at ~75% ("AFTERBURNER").

If you have a newer Hotas X, you do not need this mod.

Here is how to remove these two detents and replace them with one center detent.

Before:


After:



Equipment used:
Araldite Epoxy Resin
Dremel tool with grinder (Sharpening tool?) attachment.

Edited by evilC, 04 December 2014 - 01:25 PM.

[Foust]

Post all the pics you can, I am interested in your work.

[evilC]

Throttle Hall Sensor Mod

The first task is to modify the area where the old pot sat.
We need to remove one of the screw slots (This is the one that goes inside the recess where you coil spare cable on the underside of the stick, so DO NOT use this screw hole when re-assembling!).

Then, the ridges to either side need to be flattened off (Remove some plastic) so that you can glue the magnets in place either side of where the sensor will sit.



Then, you need to make an axle for the hall sensor.
I used the hole that the pot used to sit in to mount the hall sensor.

I took a plastic lolly stick (From a "Chupa Chups" lolly) and cut a slot in the end, into which I glued the sensor (This is a mockup, I used a longer bit of lolly stick)


You may also want to cut a "key" into the other end of the lolly stick, as the hole is not round - it has one flat edge (DO NOT use insulation tape like I did here, it isn't up to the job. Use heat shrink insulation):


Then you can stick it in place (Also notice I enlarged the hole that the wires from the handle to the base pass through. This is so that I can pass plugs through, allowing me to disassemble for maintenance without having to de-solder or cut wires):


And here is a shot with it semi-assembled, properly done with heat shrink insulation:



Job Done!

Edited by evilC, 17 December 2014 - 06:39 AM.

[evilC]

Rudder Hall Sensor Mod

This one is a bit more involved and will involve part fabrication.

Step 1: Remove the old Pot.
Cut the cables going on to it, but keep the pot, you will need it.

Step 2: Modify the rudder housing.
2a: Cut away the V of material where the smaller screw goes through (Top and bottom parts).
2b: Cut away a semicircle of material that covers the back of the pot (Bottom part only).
2c: Fabricate two posts to mount your magnets either side of where you cut away.

Here is a before and after pic of the bottom part:


You will need something that lets you create objects in any shape you want - I used a plastic called "Polymorph" that you put in a pan of boiling water, then can mould to whatever shape you need. You can re-heat it if you mess up. It's also quite soft, so easy to work with a craft knife to get it exactly how you need. The Polymorph is the white stuff in the pic.

Now you need to mod your old Pot.
The old pot happens to have a hole on the back side that rotates as the post on the front is turned.
We can therefore use this to mount the sensor in-line with the axis of rotation.
Here is a pic of what we are aiming for:

The sensor sits in the empty hole nearest the camera.

And here is a diagram explaining how I made it:

The sleeves are made of brass (Not magnetic, easy to work), with the outermost one crimped so as to better house the flat sensor.

The hole in the back of the pot is ~2mm diameter, so I used a chopped off section of an old 2mm drill bit which I carefully superglued inside. Be very careful not to get glue on the outside, else you could stick the pot in place.
I then stepped up the 2mm outside diameter of the drill bit to a ~4mm inside diameter by adding larger and larger sleeves.
These are easy to make with a series of bits of tubing that slot inside each other - just slot the tubes inside each other, then expose a bit of one, superglue it in place, then slide the next section up, apply glue, slide back in place etc. Then cut to desired length.

You do not have a lot of room at the bottom of the throttle, so this assembly needs to be SHORT!
From the back of my pot to the end of the assembly is about 8mm!
It's a bit fiddly, and you may well get superglue on your fingers, but it is do-able!

Once it is all done, you need to wire up your sensor with a right-angled turn in the pins, again because of the low amounts of room. I hacked a little bit out of the casing to make slightly more room.
Also make sure to shrink wrap and use epoxy resin around the pins of the sensor to make sure they cannot short when it rotates.

When done, it should look something like this:

Edited by evilC, 17 December 2014 - 06:32 AM.

[Foust]

I like it.
I would recommend some heat shrink and a smaller gauge wire, but it is a quality mod your building there.

[evilC]

Yeah, I realized both of these too late

However, with the way I am building it, I can improve it later. I just want to get a prototype going first so I can see if it is worth it...

[Foust]

Just don't make it fully functional before your finished with it, or like my projects they will sit at 90% complete. :-)

If you don't already have the leo board, you might want to consider a teensy++ and the application generic hid.

[evilC]

I already have the leo board.

Plan is to rig it up with hall sensor axes and the original buttons.
At some point I can add extra buttons / hat switches.

I also have two of them, so I can always use the unmodded one if the modded one is part way thru an upgrade...

[evilC]

Dammit, had a setback.
I think the shrink wrap was more important than I had realized.

I think I got a short, the sensor heated up a ton, which melted the polymorph, and it all went to hell. The sensor died.

I think I need to re-do the rudder mod with a lolly stick, thinner wire, and shrink insulation.

I have one spare hall sensor left...

Edited by evilC, 04 December 2014 - 12:41 PM.

[Foust]

Yeah, those halls shouldn't get hot. Re-verify the pin outs to. I popped one looking at the wrong pin outs....

[Crotch RockIt]

Very interesting project! Although, I have the same throttle, but it has a detent at 50% already, and none at 25% and 75%. Odd....

[evilC]

Foust, on 04 December 2014 - 12:53 PM, said:

Yeah, those halls shouldn't get hot. Re-verify the pin outs to. I popped one looking at the wrong pin outs....

Pin-outs are right, I just need to make sure the insulation stays in place - as you say, use the right tool for the job.

Crotch RockIt, on 04 December 2014 - 12:55 PM, said:

Very interesting project! Although, I have the same throttle, but it has a detent at 50% already, and none at 25% and 75%. Odd....

Mine is old and called a "Top Gun Afterburner II". It is not like the one in the photo.
I don't suppose you can open yours up and confirm that the part I modified in my detent mod is the same?
If the part is the same, just with only one detent, I may buy one just to have that bit done properly.

Detent mod post updated with the new info, thanks.

Edited by evilC, 04 December 2014 - 01:26 PM.

[mclang]

I was thinking about buying this HOTAS X.

But I read that the joystick isn't good. But I can't find any other throttle with the rocket rudder switch, so may I have to try my luck with this... I will be following your mod and maybe doing same myself.

[Crotch RockIt]

mclang, just use the throttle for moving the legs and use the mouse for moving the torso/arms. You can ignore the joystick. That's what I do, anyway.

[evilC]

mclang, on 05 December 2014 - 03:37 AM, said:

I was thinking about buying this HOTAS X.

But I read that the joystick isn't good. But I can't find any other throttle with the rocket rudder switch, so may I have to try my luck with this... I will be following your mod and maybe doing same myself.

What is "not good" about this throttle unit (Poor accuracy, rudder can "stick" when it gets old) would be 100% solved with these mods.
If you modded the Hotas X throttle with hall sensors, IMHO it would be the best throttle with a rudder rocker bar none. OK so there is only the Saitek X45 as competition, but still I would rather a modded one of these throttles than a top-of-the-range warthog throttle.

Crotch RockIt, on 05 December 2014 - 06:12 AM, said:

mclang, just use the throttle for moving the legs and use the mouse for moving the torso/arms. You can ignore the joystick. That's what I do, anyway.

Precisely. Until they sort "Absolute" mode for stick aiming, there is no point aiming with a joystick.

If / when that happens, you would want a better stick than the Hotas X one (Or a hall sensor modded Hotas X) but you would probably be better off buying a T1600M and pairing it with this throttle.

When you replace the electronics with a BU board or Teensy, it becomes a stand-alone throttle.

Edited by evilC, 05 December 2014 - 06:13 AM.

[evilC]

I got some shrink tubing today, but in the process of trying to remove the old insulation tape, I pulled the leg off the hall sensor for the throttle.
So now I am a hall sensor short, I have had to rig the rudder up with the original pot for now.

I finished it off, wiring up the buttons to the BU board, and it is now in an operable state.
Just about to jump in game to test it out.

[evilC]

Works like a charm
It's really nice in a light, such fine control over the speed!

[mclang]

Yeah, I'm planning to use mouse for aiming.
And I haven't heard any bad things about the throttle, only about the joystick. For example it has uneven stiffness from left to right in some reviews.

Currently I'm learning to use MS Sidewinder Precision pro as a left hand joystick, but it is difficult to push forward and NOT turn simultaneously when in middle of combat. I usually end up stuck in some wall or steep hill and get shot down

I've been eyeing Thrustmaster T1600 for replacement, but it doesn't solve that turning problem. And there is too few buttons in HOTAS X throttle, but if the mod you are doing seems easy enough to me do, I mean adding new buttons, maybe I do it also. But I don't yet understand how you can add buttons without modifications in the throttle's circuit board...

[evilC]

mclang, on 08 December 2014 - 02:28 AM, said:

But I don't yet understand how you can add buttons without modifications in the throttle's circuit board...

I don't. I rip out the circuit board and replace it with a new one.

I use a BU0836A, but there are cheaper alternatives around (Such as a Teensy++).

This allows you to connect up to 32 buttons and 8 axes. Plus it gives 16x the precision for the axes that the original circuit board does.

It's really easy to wire up for 4 buttons, but for more than 4, you need to make a "diode matrix" (See links on product page).

My new hall sensors arrived today, gonna finish off the axis mods right now