124 replies to this topic

[AlmightyAeng]

If they wanted to go "full STACKPOLE" they could even take specfic battles from the Lore book that are sort of one-sided...and give bonuses based on doing a historical run. You could even make a '12-man historical battle' a sort of daily

[Rebas Kradd]

WarHippy, on 05 December 2014 - 11:32 AM, said:

They already said they plan on adding planets that have lower drop weights and some having higher drop weights with the 240 limit being the most common. For a sizable number of people 240 is borderline to small as it is, and having a bunch of planets in the 195 range would make for terrible play and a great deal of frustration for those who don't like a lot of smaller mechs.

I don't see how it would make for terrible play. And while I get that people may not like smaller mechs, a MechWarrior in the BT universe wouldn't necessarily get an assault mech on any old drop just because he wants one. A House might not be able to spare the resources, and a Clan would hand the state-owned mech only to a pilot capable of putting it to its best use.

I know, I know...gameplay always has to supersede immersion when the two collide. But that goes back to the first question...DO the two have to collide? I for one would be interested to see the gameplay shifts created by a lack of the horribly, distractingly artificial 3/3/3/3. (And again, if a player REALLY wants his assaults, he can always choose to fight on a 240 planet. They should be distributed so that players have a genuine choice.)

Edited by Rebas Kradd, 05 December 2014 - 11:41 AM.

[Timuroslav]

Bishop Steiner, on 05 December 2014 - 11:17 AM, said:

would love to see a 80-150 ton drop deck, to represent things like the Davion Light Guards, for instance. Would also be cool with some missions having a 300 ton top end.

a 150 ton drop deck sounds kind of brutal.
less than 40 ton mechs average, because you have to have 4 mechs.
Maybe for prolonged stalemates for sure. Or super border-rim worlds with little to no value factory/resource wise.

[Rebas Kradd]

Timuroslav, on 05 December 2014 - 11:40 AM, said:

Maybe for prolonged stalemates for sure. Or super border-rim worlds with little to no value factory/resource wise.

That's the idea. A "wading pool" for newer players, instead of throwing them into the fire against 24 bloody Timberwolves.

And again...averages aside, the Dire Wolf and Timberwolf are still playable. You just have to bring a lot of lights. In fairness, a 195 limit is probably more realistic.

[Bishop Steiner]

Timuroslav, on 05 December 2014 - 11:40 AM, said:

a 150 ton drop deck sounds kind of brutal.
less than 40 ton mechs average, because you have to have 4 mechs.
Maybe for prolonged stalemates for sure. Or super border-rim worlds with little to no value factory/resource wise.

Or for people who want to play Light on Lights? Because, those people exist. But only in such a 150-160 ton environment could a dedicated Locust Junkie actually bring a LCT dropdeck. Yet some should be Light on Light running battles, just as some should be steiner scout vs steiner scout slobberknocker fests.

It's diversity dude. DOn't want that drop deck, have your unit take a contract for a different planet. It's diversity. It's different units might specialize in different styles.

Rebas Kradd, on 05 December 2014 - 11:43 AM, said:

That's the idea. A "wading pool" for newer players, instead of throwing them into the fire against 24 bloody Timberwolves.

And again...averages aside, the Dire Wolf and Timberwolf are still playable. You just have to bring a lot of lights. In fairness, a 195 limit is probably more realistic.

Still going to see probably 60-65% be Storm Crows, in any serious unit.

[Andi Nagasia]

Kain Thul, on 05 December 2014 - 11:37 AM, said:

It doesn't scale taht way. They said the way ELO works that was the predicted win rate of an even team which is why they were pleased with the results.

And if it did any results in the 45-55 range for either side wouldn't be "way too powerful/underpowered" because with the amoutn of variables at play 50/50 is a pipe dream, impossible, never going to happen.

i under stand how ELO works, and i know i was trying to be sarcastic,
but as the final numbers show Clan arn't Way Over Power compared to IS,
the problem is people still see Clan as they where, Clan Invasion June 2014,

[Bishop Steiner]

Andi Nagasia, on 05 December 2014 - 11:45 AM, said:

i under stand how ELO works, and i know i was trying to be sarcastic,
but as the final numbers show Clan arn't Way Over Power compared to IS,
the problem is people still see Clan as they where, Clan Invasion June 2014,

and even then, half of the Clan Mechs kinda sucked.

[KalTorak18]

I really like the idea of varied drop deck sizes per world. Or maybe even region on the world, if you want a finer grain of detail. Or stages of the invasion.. first few matches in lights and mediums, then as the conflicts on the planet heat up the heavies then the assaults come in.

Whatever the implementation, the idea of varied drop decks is a good one. It'll make it feel more like a war and less like a longer deathmatch.

[Andi Nagasia]

Bishop Steiner, on 05 December 2014 - 11:47 AM, said:

and even then, half of the Clan Mechs kinda sucked.

but people will still reference the Trinity3, as if they where the only clan mechs,
personally ill run my NVA in CW, ill get obliterated but ill try to do my best,
(yes i own a SCR, but i love my NVA, always have always will)

[Bishop Steiner]

Andi Nagasia, on 05 December 2014 - 11:52 AM, said:

but people will still reference the Trinity3, as if they where the only clan mechs,
personally ill run my NVA in CW, ill get obliterated but ill try to do my best,
(yes i own a SCR, but i love my NVA, always have always will)

Hey, I love Mad Dogs and Mist Lynx's. Want to love the Summoner. But for "serious" drops in CGBI, I know it'll be 3x SC & 1x TW.

[WarHippy]

Rebas Kradd, on 05 December 2014 - 11:40 AM, said:

I don't see how it would make for terrible play. And while I get that people may not like smaller mechs, a MechWarrior in the BT universe wouldn't necessarily get an assault mech on any old drop just because he wants one. A House might not be able to spare the resources, and a Clan would hand the state-owned mech only to a pilot capable of putting it to its best use.

In the lore some pilots were only qualified in certain mechs, and while they could pilot other mechs they were much more capable and much more comfortable in mechs that they were qualified for. Someone might prefer an Atlas but if it wasn't available they would more than likely receive something that was in the same wheelhouse instead of a Locust. As for terrible play I was referring to what some find to be enjoyable play or not, and in the case of someone that prefers heavier mechs being forced to play mostly smaller mechs because someone else says so makes for terrible play.

Rebas Kradd, on 05 December 2014 - 11:40 AM, said:

I know, I know...gameplay always has to supersede immersion when the two collide. But that goes back to the first question...DO the two have to collide? I for one would be interested to see the gameplay shifts created by a lack of the horribly, distractingly artificial 3/3/3/3. (And again, if a player REALLY wants his assaults, he can always choose to fight on a 240 planet. They should be distributed so that players have a genuine choice.)

In this case gameplay absolutely should supersede immersion. I don't have a problem with some planets having small drop decks so long as they allow for some to have large drop decks(I'm talking in the 300 range) because in lore it wasn't always a bunch of small mechs running around. Sometimes the big boys came out to play, and when they came out they came in force.

Edited by WarHippy, 05 December 2014 - 12:03 PM.

[Saobh]

Well considering that people who want to play whichever Mech they want have the group and pug queues for that already you could consider that CW indeed has a Mech certification system so that people who are good at them get to use them during planet encounters.

But as most people want to feel like gods without putting any effort its never going to happen ...

[Kain Demos]

Andi Nagasia, on 05 December 2014 - 11:45 AM, said:

i under stand how ELO works, and i know i was trying to be sarcastic,
but as the final numbers show Clan arn't Way Over Power compared to IS,
the problem is people still see Clan as they where, Clan Invasion June 2014,

I had hoped you were being sarcastic and it turns out you were.

You can ignore my reply then.

[Bishop Steiner]

WarHippy, on 05 December 2014 - 11:56 AM, said:

In the lore some pilots were only qualified in certain mechs, and while they could pilot other mechs they were much more capable and much more comfortable in mechs that they were qualified for. Someone might prefer an Atlas but if it wasn't available they would more than likely receive something that was in the same wheelhouse instead of a Locust. As for terrible play I was referring to what some find to be enjoyable play or not, and in the case of someone that prefers heavier mechs being forced to play mostly smaller mechs because someone else says so makes for terrible play.
In this case gameplay absolutely should supersede immersion. I don't have a problem with some planets having small drop decks so long as they allow for some to have large drop decks(I'm talking in the 300 range) because in lore it wasn't always a bunch of small mechs running around. Sometimes the big boys came out to play, and when they came out they came in force.

having the other guy running a bunch of dire wolves would be terribly play for many other players. I'm all for some missions being fatty heavy, but I sure would rather see a guy have to make tradeoffs to bring his "rare" assault mech than just dropping in 4 every match.

Though truth to tell, at least in 12 mans, I would love to see a Unit Tonnage limit, that's global, so if you got a Scout Jock he can bring 4 Lights, and you got an Assault Jock he can bring 4 Assaults, etc.

But in mixed group MM, that might be difficult (though we do use a scaling drop weight limit in SMM every monday, should be transferable)

[DasSibby]

Unless you're a Steiner... Then you only bring Atlas Scout Lances.

Edited by DasSibby, 05 December 2014 - 12:12 PM.

[Fut]

WarHippy, on 05 December 2014 - 11:56 AM, said:

As for terrible play I was referring to what some find to be enjoyable play or not, and in the case of someone that prefers heavier mechs being forced to play mostly smaller mechs because someone else says so makes for terrible play.

Nobody will force you to do anything, If you don't want to play smaller Mechs, don't accept the contract for that particular battle.

[CDLord HHGD]

Read the OP and I like it. Can I add a thought?

Since they cannot do 12v10, the IS Company vs the Clan Binary, further adjusting the available tonnage per side might be another way to implement this dynamic. Now, I know the Clans are nerfed to hell and gone from their original TT counterparts, but the tonnage gap doesn't have to be that large. Just something to balance the superiority.

[WarHippy]

Bishop Steiner, on 05 December 2014 - 12:08 PM, said:

having the other guy running a bunch of dire wolves would be terribly play for many other players. I'm all for some missions being fatty heavy, but I sure would rather see a guy have to make tradeoffs to bring his "rare" assault mech than just dropping in 4 every match.

I understand that. I just don't like how these topics often boil down to a desire by some people to force everyone into mediums because that is what they think is most true to lore and how everyone should enjoy the game. I have no problems with some being smaller drops, but I do want to see some bigger drops as well. The 240 limit being most common is fine with me even if I feel it is a bit on the light side.

Bishop Steiner, on 05 December 2014 - 12:08 PM, said:

Though truth to tell, at least in 12 mans, I would love to see a Unit Tonnage limit, that's global, so if you got a Scout Jock he can bring 4 Lights, and you got an Assault Jock he can bring 4 Assaults, etc.

But in mixed group MM, that might be difficult (though we do use a scaling drop weight limit in SMM every monday, should be transferable)

Yeah, I have always been a fan of the idea of putting my Aces in their places, and why I prefer these tonnage restrictions to the 1/1/1/1 system they were originally going with. I don't like the tonnage setup much either, but at least it allows my guys that enjoy and are proficient at lights to bring 3-4 lights, and my guys that prefer heavier mechs to bring a somewhat more top heavy drop deck.

[WarHippy]

Fut, on 05 December 2014 - 12:14 PM, said:

Nobody will force you to do anything, If you don't want to play smaller Mechs, don't accept the contract for that particular battle.

Yes, I understand that, but I was pointing out that having a bunch of the 195 ton limits and 240 being the only other alternative the people that would like large drops are not going to have many if any choices for their particular form of fun. As I have said several times now I'm ok with having some smaller drop decks so long as there are options for larger drop decks as well.

[Bishop Steiner]

WarHippy, on 05 December 2014 - 12:24 PM, said:

I understand that. I just don't like how these topics often boil down to a desire by some people to force everyone into mediums because that is what they think is most true to lore and how everyone should enjoy the game. I have no problems with some being smaller drops, but I do want to see some bigger drops as well. The 240 limit being most common is fine with me even if I feel it is a bit on the light side.
Yeah, I have always been a fan of the idea of putting my Aces in their places, and why I prefer these tonnage restrictions to the 1/1/1/1 system they were originally going with. I don't like the tonnage setup much either, but at least it allows my guys that enjoy and are proficient at lights to bring 3-4 lights, and my guys that prefer heavier mechs to bring a somewhat more top heavy drop deck.

That is why, i think, the OP is not calling for it to globally limit, but for certain planets and contracts, have variable limits.