124 replies to this topic

[Escef]

mailin, on 08 December 2014 - 09:21 PM, said:

I think IS streaks are fine. Escef, sorry, but a Commando is way more maneuverable than a Raven.

And slower. And you're not sorry. If you are going to lie to me at least have the courtesy to tell me a lie I can believe.

[Adiuvo]

Escef, on 08 December 2014 - 10:02 PM, said:

And slower. And you're not sorry. If you are going to lie to me at least have the courtesy to tell me a lie I can believe.

A Commando is literally the fastest mech in the game... even if you're using the 2D, which has a lower engine cap, it's only goes 1kph slower than the Raven 3L with max engine. Any other Raven is slower, and regardless the Raven turns slower.

The only lie here is you telling yourself that you know what you're talking about

Edited by Adiuvo, 08 December 2014 - 10:20 PM.

[Escef]

Adiuvo, on 08 December 2014 - 10:19 PM, said:

A Commando is literally the fastest mech in the game... even if you're using the 2D, which has a lower engine cap, it's only goes 1kph slower than the Raven 3L with max engine. Any other Raven is slower, and regardless the Raven turns slower.

The only lie here is you telling yourself that you know what you're talking about

So, let me get this straight... The Commando is faster than every mech, even the mechs that are faster than it is? Do you even listen to yourself?

[Pjwned]

Alistair Winter, on 08 December 2014 - 08:03 PM, said:

Huh? There's some pretty definitive answers to that question, some of which have already been mentioned in this thread, and they're posted quite often. If you reduce them down to "because", then that's pretty much on you.

All I see is either "streaks don't need to be buffed in any way despite how terrible they are" or "streaks need to be redesigned," the latter of which I do actually agree with, but considering how unlikely that is they need to be more effective with the way they work now.

OP actually tried to come up with a decent solution that is actually viable, but of course the usual crew don't listen to anything and then proceed to shitpost massively in the latter half of the thread.

Quote

It's absurd that we're discussing whether it's hard to get missile locks against light mech like that's a serious question. Like we didn't already have ample empirical evidence, just by looking at earlier stages of the game, when streaks were more dominant.

A light mech running around on hilly terrain with radar deprivation isn't exactly an easy target when you need the crosshair to be steady on them long enough just to be able to fire at all.

Don Ino, on 08 December 2014 - 04:46 PM, said:

Did it. Wasn't hard. Try doing the same with real weapons that do pinpoint damage.

What sort of "real weapons that do pinpoint damage" are you carrying on your light mech that is chasing another light mech? There's not much else you can fit on them besides lasers, and I really hope you're not saying lasers are harder to hit with than streaks; I guess you can also say SRMs but at least with those you can fire without a lock and they're not particularly more difficult to use.

Quote

You probably still can't. Which is why there are streaks in the first place. For low tier, low skill, low competence pilots like you.

Weapons that don't require aiming are so people who can't aim can have fun too.

This is the sort of shitposting I was referring to by the way.

Alistair Winter, on 08 December 2014 - 08:03 PM, said:

The only question that needs to be discussed is whether people want a game where light mechs are at the bottom of the foodchain. People have some rather eloquent arguments on both sides of that question. The only problem is that PGI is sticking its head the sand, trying to take a middle ground between two viable options and failing miserably at game balance. This results in light mechs being the least popular choice. The solo queue is a good indication of that. Another indication is how few people are planning on using assault mechs in CW, because that inevitably forces them to pilot "worthless light mechs".

Actually, the question is how worthless SSRM2 needs to be, and the people that oppose SSRM2 being any threat at all seem to think "completely."

The weapon has multiple significant downsides and is pretty much never used, and when pointed out the argument is "so are these other weapons" as if that's an actual excuse for inaction.

As far as light mechs being viable that isn't solely determined by whether or not SSRM2 is actually worth equipping like people seem to think is the case.

Edited by Pjwned, 08 December 2014 - 11:05 PM.

[Adiuvo]

Escef, on 08 December 2014 - 10:22 PM, said:

So, let me get this straight... The Commando is faster than every mech, even the mechs that are faster than it is? Do you even listen to yourself?

The 2D isn't the only Commando. Chances are that Raven also wasn't running max engine, especially if it was a 2xERLL variant. Anything other than a 3L also would be slower than a 2D.

Pjwned, on 08 December 2014 - 11:03 PM, said:

What sort of "real weapons that do pinpoint damage" are you carrying on your light mech that is chasing another light mech? There's not much else you can fit on them besides lasers, and I really hope you're not saying lasers are harder to hit with than streaks; I guess you can also say SRMs but at least with those you can fire without a lock and they're not particularly more difficult to use.

Getting a little red tick doesn't count as 'hitting' with lasers.

[Escef]

Adiuvo, on 08 December 2014 - 11:27 PM, said:

The 2D isn't the only Commando.

But it was the only one in question. Thank you for moving the goal posts.

[Adiuvo]

Escef, on 08 December 2014 - 11:33 PM, said:

But it was the only one in question. Thank you for moving the goal posts.

Point is, chances are that Raven was slower than you.

Secondary point is lol at 45 seconds to get streak lock.

Edited by Adiuvo, 08 December 2014 - 11:37 PM.

[Pjwned]

Adiuvo, on 08 December 2014 - 11:27 PM, said:

Getting a little red tick doesn't count as 'hitting' with lasers.

It's not hard to achieve more than that with lasers in that situation however, definitely not harder than a weapon that requires a lock to be able to fire at all when the lock is broken constantly.

[Escef]

Adiuvo, on 08 December 2014 - 11:37 PM, said:

Point is, chances are that Raven was slower than you.

Secondary point is lol at 45 seconds to get streak lock.

lol at yourself. With an attitude like yours, I won't be the only one blocking you. Have fun talking to yourself.

[FupDup]

Escef, on 08 December 2014 - 11:44 PM, said:

lol at yourself. With an attitude like yours, I won't be the only one blocking you. Have fun talking to yourself.

Honestly, Adiuvo is probably the most tame House of Lords member I've seen on these forums, and tends to be more level-headed and objective than some of his unit mates (at least, from what I've seen in my anecdotal experience). [And no, I don't agree with him on every topic].

If you want to see an attitude, you should've seen someone like LORD VILLZ, back when he still played this game that is.

Edited by FupDup, 08 December 2014 - 11:52 PM.

[Adiuvo]

Pjwned, on 08 December 2014 - 11:41 PM, said:

It's not hard to achieve more than that with lasers in that situation however, definitely not harder than a weapon that requires a lock to be able to fire at all when the lock is broken constantly.

I'm not sure how you think that using a weapon where you only need to aim in the general vicinity of a mech is harder, or even equal to, a weapon where you need to aim at precise components for the entire duration with.

Spreading damage everywhere with lasers is easy, yes. It also is a bad use of them and if that's all a player can do, the player is poor.

Escef, on 08 December 2014 - 11:44 PM, said:

lol at yourself. With an attitude like yours, I won't be the only one blocking you. Have fun talking to yourself.

MISSION COMPLETED

FupDup, on 08 December 2014 - 11:49 PM, said:

Honestly, Adiuvo is probably the most tame House of Lords member I've seen on these forums, and tends to be more level-headed and objective than some of his unit mates (at least, from what I've seen in my anecdotal experience). [And no, I don't agree with him on every topic].

If you want to see an attitude, you should've seen someone like LORD VILLZ, back when he still played this game that is.

Eh, I know I'm not being particularly nice right now, but considering the comments Escef was making earlier I don't feel the need to be incredibly kind.

Edited by Adiuvo, 09 December 2014 - 12:06 AM.

[YueFei]

Escef, on 08 December 2014 - 11:44 PM, said:

lol at yourself. With an attitude like yours, I won't be the only one blocking you. Have fun talking to yourself.

You know when you talk to people better than you at an activity you enjoy, the smart thing to do is to listen and learn.

This is like watching you go up and dismiss Tom Brady's replies when he tells you that you're doing something terribly wrong if your throwing motion requires 1 second to release.

Take this kind of attitude towards your other hobbies, and you're gonna stagnate rather than improve.

[Pjwned]

Adiuvo, on 09 December 2014 - 12:06 AM, said:

I'm not sure how you think that using a weapon where you only need to aim in the general vicinity of a mech is harder, or even equal to, a weapon where you need to aim at precise components for the entire duration with.

Spreading damage everywhere with lasers is easy, yes. It also is a bad use of them and if that's all a player can do, the player is poor.

You mean that same damage spreading that occurs with SSRMs, except even more so in most cases? Okay.

If you only have small windows of time to fire at a mech then a hitscan weapon is going to be better (and, more to the point, easier to use) than a weapon that can't even fire at all because of locks being broken.

Edited by Pjwned, 09 December 2014 - 12:39 AM.

[Adiuvo]

Pjwned, on 09 December 2014 - 12:38 AM, said:

You mean that same damage spreading that occurs with SSRMs, except even more so in most cases? Okay.

If you only have small windows of time to fire at a mech then a hitscan weapon is going to be better (and, more to the point, easier to use) than a weapon that can't even fire at all because of locks being broken.

Streaks are guaranteed damage, lasers or not. That is the crux of the discussion.

[H I A S]

Escef, on 08 December 2014 - 04:52 PM, said:

He must if he thinks it's so damn easy to get a streak lock on a cagey light pilot in bad terrain.

Sry, but Streaks realy easymode and requieres no Skill. I sometimes must use it in Scrimms and dont like it, because you have not to aim.

[Pjwned]

Adiuvo, on 09 December 2014 - 12:43 AM, said:

Streaks are guaranteed damage, lasers or not. That is the crux of the discussion.

How are streaks any more "guaranteed damage" than lasers which are hitscan? It also seems like we just established that streaks are not actually guaranteed damage when you can't even fire them at a target, meanwhile lasers have much less of a problem with that.

[YueFei]

Pjwned, on 09 December 2014 - 12:56 AM, said:

How are streaks any more "guaranteed damage" than lasers which are hitscan? It also seems like we just established that streaks are not actually guaranteed damage when you can't even fire them at a target, meanwhile lasers have much less of a problem with that.

If you can't even streak lock, you wouldn't be able to land a laser hit anyways. I mean, streaks aren't "guaranteed" literally, sure there could be more than 1 ECM jamming you (or you didn't carry BAP, LOL), but assuming it's even possible to shoot your streaks, it's easier to shoot streaks than it is to shoot lasers.

The skill threshold required to obtain streak lock is lower than the skill threshold needed to land and hold a laser hit. The arc you have to hold in is the entire target box. With lasers, you could hold it within the box and still totally miss the entire burn.

[QuantumButler]

HiasRGB, on 09 December 2014 - 12:54 AM, said:

Sry, but Streaks realy easymode and requieres no Skill. I sometimes must use it in Scrimms and dont like it, because you have not to aim.

Ah yes 2 missiles at 2.5 damage onto a random part of the mech and maybe one of them will even hit the ground instead of the mech, truly ez mode as compared to the pinpoint massive damage of an autocannon.

We're talking the terrible IS ssrm2. not boated clan ssrm4s/6s which put out enough missiles to actually be a threat and can sandblast your mech away pretty easily, but even then are way worse than normal srms.

[Escef]

QuantumButler, on 09 December 2014 - 01:10 AM, said:

Ah yes 2 missiles at 2.5 damage...

Only 2/missile, they dropped it down a while ago.

[QuantumButler]

Escef, on 09 December 2014 - 01:12 AM, said:

Only 2/missile, they dropped it down a while ago.

Shows you how recently I used ssrm2s.