110 replies to this topic

[Ax2Grind]

SomersetStriker, on 13 December 2014 - 05:01 PM, said:

About the same ratio and every attack (except for one I thought) ended in defeat. Whether I was grouped with 10 mans or 6 mans or whatever. Its ridiculous. Complete opposite to your experience.

I am guessing your running IS mechs, and that may be the difference that I am seeing vs what your experiencing. All I know is that even against full 12 man's (3 of the battles), I have seen complete success...meaning no zerg rush, defenders almost completely destroyed, my team still having all 12 players on the field with backup mechs.

This is not to say that I think defending is tough. Especially on the Alpine map, Boreal Vault, I had a game where we lost only 6 mechs (2 of which were ejects) and killed all 48 of the enemy. The defender has an easier time of it for sure. But I think that is appropriate. Once my unit switches to an IS house I can get a perspective on IS mechs on the attack, but for clans, it is very doable. If this wasn't true, Clan Ghost Bear territory would not have ballooned in the last 24 hours.

Edited by Ax2Grind, 13 December 2014 - 05:22 PM.

[Eglar]

you can do it by force too.

[Curley GumboKiller Bradley]

I would love to try all these different ideas on winning.

BUT I AM AT 28:31 minutes and waiting and still have not been in a game.

Something has to be done about this fast. In 2 days I have only connected 5 times to a match with the computer running all day.

Also, last game I had my light mech dropped in power down mode. How does that happen?

[KhanJames]

I think the map with 3 entry/attack points is relatively balanced, but the 2 entry one is horrible.

The three gate one is fairly good, a good team rushing can win, a good defense can delay them and win. I honestly rather enjoy playing on this one because it comes down to skill and teamwork more than luck.

For the 2 gate snow map-
-They are right next to each other so a few LRM boats/ Snipers can cover both,
-chokepoint is to narrow to allow multiple mechs to rush,
-the defender dropship shoots you at the gate (which I get the whole range argument but the amount of turrets with large lasers plus when multiple dropships come in is ridiculous) (as in no cover anywhere near their "Half")
-Along with the distance we have to cover after the chokepoint.
It favors the defenders way to heavily, the attackers have to have everyone work perfectly as a team (which never happens), a proper weight balance (again good luck with that), and hope the defenders aren't watching that gate because if they are your rush is dead before it starts.


Atleast the hotfix got FPS to playable levels, I'm guessing the turrets and dropships account for the rest of the low FPS situation.

Also why don't they use some of the regular maps for Clan vs Clan, Clans as I understand it would pick a place to dual so fighting over a base (AA gun?) rather than a Skirmish style fight doesn't make a whole lotta sense to me. It would give us a lot more maps to play on (would only have to add dropship spawn, because again mech combat for honor no need for turrets or bases) and were already familiar with them.

[Alex Warden]

aniviron, on 12 December 2014 - 08:23 PM, said:

Yep, just flat out wrong.

You know, except for the fact that of the last six matches I have played, the attackers have won five because we're on comms or the other team is on comms and it's incredibly easy to bumrush the generator. With stormcrows and timberwolves running in and not even engaging the enemies, the generator almost always falls within ten minutes.

The only times the defenders are winning in games I am playing now are when the attackers all turtle up, play peekaboo and snipe around, and wind up getting lots of kills but no damage on the generator.

pretty much describes how borked the system is... wether the attacker rush in and kill the gen in a few minutes (mostly impossible to def... we were on both sides tonight ^^)

or the attacker doesn´t and eats dust...

4 advantages of the defender are: doors, chokepoints, turrets and dropship... each of them things that the attcker cant use... (well chokepoints maybe, but that´s basically a waste of time...) so the only viable tactic IS the cheesy zergrush one...

what i would like to see is that defenders would get a little less of advantage through third parties (see above) and in return there would be 3 generators :

1 in the center as it is now, and 2 others on different positions within the base... the 2 others must be destroyed to unlock the center one, which would get a significant HP buff...

Edited by Alex Warden, 13 December 2014 - 06:08 PM.

[valt901]

I played for three hours yesterday and was attacking every match. Didn't win one game. Today played a defender role and rolled the other team. I only used two mechs. Seems like hit reg is way off as well. One hit and your cored, two and your dead. Even two ppc shots from a thousand yards shouldn't do that but it does. I'm sure the stats will bare this out when they are dissected. This was IS v IS no clan.

Edited by valt901, 13 December 2014 - 06:27 PM.

[Top Gun Killer]

Yea i have yet to try out the clans but i played vs them a few times and everyone was just about the same as for the mechs they took with them 24 x StormCrows and 24 x Hellbringers lol talk about streak boats and ecm.
Even watching Streams on twitch it seems like the better groups are taking the streak boat stormcrows and hellbringers to stop the zerg push.
But maybe in time or some incoming hot fixes someone will find a more skilled way to win on the attacking side.

[Dracol]

Worked out an attack strategy for the 12 mans that I command Friday night that netted me 3 out of 3 victories. IS v Clan. Does not involve a 12 man zerg rush. Instead, we fought on multiple fronts. Used at most 4 light mechs to make lightning raids for 10% to 30% damage on Omega. Also pushed into the defenders with a large force that protected the fast mechs until they were close enough to sprint to Omega and deal damage. Never took down Omega in one wave.
They were longer battles and over 75% of use each match would have over 80 pts to qualify for the challenge.

[Corbon Zackery]

So far I have seen no IS team do a successful counter attack. I have seen IS do successful defenses.

So far I seen several rigged matches were full clan teams are put against mixed defenders. I have to assume this is to make community warfare look good on Youtube. Or someone paid a lot of money to PGI to make them look like the studs of the game.

As far as community warfare as a whole its still a total fail. Great that we have it. However if were just going to be lambs to the slaughter for some 12 man team. Then Community Warfare is dead on arrival. The whole point was to have Steiner vs. Jade Falcon or Wolf. FRR vs Ghost Bear. Not 4 from Dragons, 4 from the Free World League and 2 from house Steiner, 2 from Liao. This makes it impossible to assault a base when 12 people are doing their own thing. verses a 12 man team of players. I have to assume PGI did that because people were waiting 30 min for a match.

Massive changes will be needed in the next few months. Right now its pointless most clan vs Is matches are 48 Clan to 25 IS.

Drop zones can be swarmed and camped. Rampant use of arty, and airstrikes on tight narrow canyons.

Turrets and Dropships give the defender a 4 to 1 advantage. No one would be insane enough to attack with those odds. Dropships target the highest ELO player on the field. They don't provide enough cover to the respawn points.

I realize oh its Beta. Just from what I seen from 2 days play no one will be playing it by the end of February. The only good thing is the economy seem about right. I sure they plan to add rearm costs at a latter date and time.

[FatYak]

i just saw an IS team do a successfull counter attack, but only by using the "jump on the generator exploit". despite the score being 32-15 or something like that, they still win because a lone spider is able to sit behind the generator where he cant be hit and just kill the thing and the defending team not being able to shoot at it

This new "beta" has so many floors in it, its not really a Beta

And the abominable hit registration really is making the difference between winning and losing in some cases

[Sandpit]

5 matches tonight

3 were attacking
2 of those we won

I don't think you know what "can't win" means.

[Night Fury76]

Well as long as PGI are looking at the numbers and will continue to make adjustment, I'm happy to beta test this for a while.

It's fun now a few less chessy strat's have come out and IS vs IS battles have been long and intense battles.

Cheers

[kapusta11]

If someone jumps behind the generator what stops you from jumping after him and killing him?

[Sandpit]

kapusta11, on 14 December 2014 - 02:23 AM, said:

If someone jumps behind the generator what stops you from jumping after him and killing him?

Apparently its' "too hard" for some...

[FatYak]

Sandpit, on 14 December 2014 - 02:37 AM, said:

Apparently its' "too hard" for some...

or no one has a jump capable mech that can reach the height???

face it, its a lame way to win something that is supposed to simulate mech on mech combat

[KhanJames]

Actually just got my Second victory on the boreal (2 gate) map, almost a Kill defenders victory (41-35) before someone hit their base generator. So still think its too unbalanced but its winnable if you have a great team and other team is semi incompetent.

And yeah I Had a jump spider do that 2 games ago when we were mostly assault/heavys with no jj got lucky and a Kit fox got him before it was game over though.

So basically the only ways to win in CW I see are Luck and a good team rush (ignoring the spider/jj BS which i'm assuming (hoping) will be patched out/ fixed)

Also does the Xp gain seem low to anyone else considering these seem to last at least 20 min vs about 8-12 for regular and yet im getting a little less of Xp (really more like a third because of dividing among the mechs). I get between 3-5K for first match and 1-4k after that in regular but I'm getting about 1k xp per mech in CW. I realize I play a bit differently in CW vs Regular but the Numbers (kills, assists, etc) seem about the same when taking multiple mechs into account.

[Top Gun Killer]

Yes the XP is lower because it gets split up to all of your mechs equal from what i can tell so far ..
IMO i think this is a good thing because you don't really want people to bring mechs that they are still working on for a CW match if you want go play a normal drop till it is maxed out and ready to go your just putting your team in a handicap bring it to CW..

[TyphonCh]

I've been on the receiving end of many successful attacks.. Most are zerg rushes but that's a different topic...

They likely released CW early on a Friday, so that over the weekend they can gather data and information over the weekend, drop a few hot fixes, and watch these new forums for input. It is Beta after all... I think people had too high of expectations. They got this far. They'll get 'er done

Edited by Team Chevy86, 14 December 2014 - 07:21 PM.

[LordKnightFandragon]

Ill say Attackers cant win through conventional means. Actually playing the game, fighting the defense and you know....playing the intent of the game, attackers cant really win. Atleast not puggies.

If Attackers use cheese tactics, Light zerg, leg the defense rush or w/e other cheese atk can come up with, sure.....

Just ended another game on Defense, 48 to maybe 20?

[Koniks]

There are 2 effective attack strategies, other than the zerg rush, that work even for the Inner Sphere against Clans.

1) Waves 1 and/or 2 open all the gates get the turrets on the sides down. 10 mechs push one side as a diversion. Slip in an ECM mech to TAG the gun generator from the other side, fire LRMs from the gate. You can also try using the ECM to get a LRMisher with TAG into position, though that's somewhat riskier.

The Clan obviously has an edge being able to just use a Hellbringer or Kitfox for this. The DDC is...a little less desirable for the role.

2) Wave 1 on Boreal, lights open up one side. Everyone else opens the other. Everyone rejoins and then clears the turrets on a side while crippling but not destroying the defenders. Save the strikes for either grouped up enemies or turrets behind the gun. Same thing for Sulphur, except lights open up mid, then the other side and clear turrets/snipe/harass.

Wave 2, continue to disable, not kill mechs. Focus on the turrets at the guns. (If on Sulphur, finish off the turrets in the middle.) Strikes on turrets or the gun generator. Target the gun generator as you're able.

Wave 3 and 4, group up and push for the gun. You now have 2 routes to choose from. Go straight for the generator. Avoid kills.

N.B.: Make sure you group up in cover between waves, even if it takes more time. Ideally, you bring mechs that pack a punch and aren't too slow. It's a real P.I.T.A. waiting for sub-70kph to form up.

ERPPCs, ERLLs, Gauss, and AC5s are your best options for wave 1 with a handful of short or mid-range SRM/laser/AC20 builds and maybe an LRM boat. It's a good idea to have at least 1 ECM mech in each wave.

The wave 1 mix is fine for the other waves as well, but you might want to bring some cooler, high-DPS options.

Streaks if you want to keep lights away.

And while the clans can pack a big alpha, they overheat quickly. That's a huge edge when you get to the generator.

Edited by Mizeur, 15 December 2014 - 12:55 AM.