68 replies to this topic

[One Medic Army]

Errant Variable, on 12 December 2014 - 08:50 PM, said:

Negating the risk of running out of ammunition would make one of the greatest drawbacks of ballistic mechs a non-issue. You have guns, you can carry a certain amount of ammunition, you have to make tradeoffs to carry more, and once you've run out you're good for scouting and drawing fire.

What about (someone else's suggestion of) an ammo resupply consumable? Refills a certain weight of ammo, or a certain percentage perhaps. Possibly with a wait timer before effect and some mech vulnerability added?

Something like "Call ammo carrier" instead of "Call airstrike", you could even make the thing highly explosive.

[Ph30nix]

i agree it does suck to be having an effective round in your mech only to run out of ammo and have the tide of the match turn because of it....
but thats kind of the point of ammo limits.

last match i had i started off in my 6 LRM 5 A1 and team happened to have 2 other missle boats, we parked our selves equal distant to both entrances and kept a non stop stream of missles at anything we got a lock on. we were able to keep the enemy team pinned down for the first 12 minutes of the match (they tried a rush or two but between the rain of LRMs and team mates blasting them as well they were very hesitant to try)

once we ran out of ammo though.... they started pushing in alot harder, we did end up winning still but after the LRM rain stopped our death rate started going up.

if we had enough ammo or a way to reload in game they would have never had a chance.

[Bluefalcon13]

I have issues with this idea TBH. Ironically I would greatly benefit from it, as I tend to prefer sarna stock configs of my triple summoner +mist lynx drop deck. Two of my summoners are heavily ammo dependent, with roughly 15 ac shots (prime/c configs) and missiles.

Usually when I start running low on ammo, I'm almost dead anyways, but if I can make it work, you all can too...

[Lyoto Machida]

Scratx, on 12 December 2014 - 09:00 PM, said:

Yup. Builds that work on PUGs don't necessarily work in CW for that reason.

Unfortunately that does mean CW risks turning into laserwarrior online. We'll have to see how the "CW Meta" evolves to see if creating some way to resupply is actually needed.

At least Laserwarrior online isn't PP FLD damage...

[Saint Scarlett Johan]

Lyoto Machida, on 12 December 2014 - 08:12 PM, said:

Ever consider energy weapons? I hear they're great on ammo.

I've forgotten my PPC ammo before. Talk about embarrassing...

Flash Frame, on 12 December 2014 - 09:16 PM, said:

You mean... it actually makes generalist mechs that have backup weapons simi-viable?

*GHASP* Muh Meta!

You haven't gotten the memo have you?

Pulse laser vomit is the meta of the day. You're about three metas behind.

[MoonUnitBeta]

No problems here except that i have to NOT MISS.... every shot must count... it's actually a great feeling. I always carry back up weaposn though. it' be stupid not to.

[El Bandito]

Comstar did not beat the Clans in Tukayyd using ammo reliant mechs. Learn from history, young grasshoppers

[MischiefSC]

I'm finding that there's a huge difference from pug/group queue mechs and CW mechs for performance. If you have an AC reliant mech it needs to be high frontloaded damage like AC20s and be used to tank or counter-push; a mech you know won't live long but is made for blaze of glory work. LRMs you can absolutely take a smaller engine and a stupid amount of ammo - also, why take backup weapons? You'll ALWAYS have teammates around, drop with it early in the match and run through your 1500+LRMs, eject and come back with lasers.

ERPPCs and ERLLs are exceptional, indeed required choices. An ERLL Locust well played at 900m is a legit threat for a locust.

I love my AC5 Dragon - however they are of questionable value in CW. I can trade shots with ERLLs with one at 700m around the gate, run him out of ammo and functionally 'kill' him.

ACs are a lot of short range firepower. For a CW build I would actually recommend NOT wasting tonnage on a 'backup weapon'. Bring more ammo for your primaries, or run lasers.

[Sandpit]

It's nto "broken"
It's what happens when you want to bring an ammo dependent mech, not enough ammo, spam ammo relentlessly, etc.

That's not broken, that's FINALLY having some consequences to not building balanced mechs, not conserving ammo, and not playing smart in general.

No ammo refills, no unlimited ammo mode.

If you don't want to worry about ammo, drop in pub queue.

[Sandpit]

One Medic Army, on 12 December 2014 - 10:39 PM, said:

What about (someone else's suggestion of) an ammo resupply consumable? Refills a certain weight of ammo, or a certain percentage perhaps. Possibly with a wait timer before effect and some mech vulnerability added?

Something like "Call ammo carrier" instead of "Call airstrike", you could even make the thing highly explosive.

see above

no thanks to unlimited ammo mode.

This is a war environment. There's finally some consequences and strategy to consider. I'd rather not see that go away. Drop pub queue if you want' a more casual environment and not wanting to be concerned with things like ammo in prolonged engagements.

Ammo dependent weapons generally have two trade-offs compared to energy weapons.
Crit space
and
AMMO

It's time for some to step out of their comfort zone and adapt instead of expecting the game to be made "easier" for them. There are other game modes that allow for that.
Drop pub queue

[Meihru]

Ph30nix, on 12 December 2014 - 11:15 PM, said:

i agree it does suck to be having an effective round in your mech only to run out of ammo and have the tide of the match turn because of it....
but thats kind of the point of ammo limits.

last match i had i started off in my 6 LRM 5 A1 and team happened to have 2 other missle boats, we parked our selves equal distant to both entrances and kept a non stop stream of missles at anything we got a lock on. we were able to keep the enemy team pinned down for the first 12 minutes of the match (they tried a rush or two but between the rain of LRMs and team mates blasting them as well they were very hesitant to try)

once we ran out of ammo though.... they started pushing in alot harder, we did end up winning still but after the LRM rain stopped our death rate started going up.

if we had enough ammo or a way to reload in game they would have never had a chance.

and thats exactly the point why there is no ammo resupply

the cw matches are a mere joke if you are defender, with lets say 8 "normal" builds and 4 lrm boats.. attackers will never have the slightest chance to break through because there would be ten thousands of missiles raining on them..




people complain about ammo being depleted? hell, thats the fu***** SENSE of ammo.. you cant just go into a war with you machine guns or missile launchers and expect them to have infinite ammo holy crap..

but wait... i heard a legend of some weird stuff.. i think a hobbit called them " Energy Weapons"

[Wolf Ender]

remember when we went from 8v8 to 12v12 and people cried about ammo?

[Sandpit]

Wolf Ender, on 13 December 2014 - 01:27 AM, said:

remember when we went from 8v8 to 12v12 and people cried about ammo?

remember when the game went live and people cried about any and everything? lol

[generalazure]

Throwing out pretty much everything without AC20 in the name helped for me. Clanners will just laugh about your backup lasers anyways.

[Estonniel]

Not seeing a problem, even soldiers IRL carry ammo packs. if out, to bad use a side arm. if you dont have it, to bad. people who use the same mind set of having ammo just enough for killing 12 mechs instead of 48. you have to learn to accept the fact that YOU WILL NEED SIDEARM LASERS.

Use the Lasers untill you have to fight for real and use your ammo wisely and keep in mind that you WILL run out at a point that you will HAVE to fall back on your Lasers. or just eject for your next mech. but a mech without 20 dmg Laser power minimum simply will be worthless if out of ammo. deal with this and rework your builds with the mindset that your fighting 48 mechs and objective's. but dont forget you got 47 people with you that also can fight. so don't make your mech a Ammo Factory that simply blows up due to ammo explosions .

[Naduk]

Cw has not broken your ammo based mechs
It has shown you how weak the build was to begin with

Pure ammo based units pound out the damage
But it comes at a price of sustainability
The lore is full of commanders who knew they were in for an extended fight or campaign and would focus on energy more and just out last their opponents

To solve your issue you can do it 1 mech at a time
Find ways to take backup weapons or maximize ammo counts

Or you solve it on the drop deck Level
Have mechs loaded to peform roles
Take a mix bag of rolls
Sniper or lrm ammo heavy units are great to start an attack
Energy heavy units are great for the mid game where battle lines form and pushed slow down
Change it up again if ur defending or attacking
Atlas is a great attacker while the slower king crab is a better defender

If your mech count is low use trials to fill the gaps

[Sandpit]

Naduk, on 13 December 2014 - 01:44 AM, said:

It has shown you how weak the build was to begin with

ding ding ding

It's funny how things like that get exposed when their are limitations put in place and those 6 minute stand alone arena deathmatches don't play out the same as a community warfare prolonged engagement does ain't it?

[Torgun]

It's a whole new game since we have matches where you can potentially survive in one mech for 30 mins, so you should need to rethink your builds that only needed to last max 15 mins with max 12 mechs to shoot at. Considering the amount of enemies jumping back into the match when they've lost one mech, you have potentially 48 enemies to shoot at. It's time to do some work in mechbay again, or rather in smurfys and then copy the build in mechbay.

[LordKnightFandragon]

Ammo issues, step 1 of 100000 to this game's depth.

Do I want the boom boom, heat efficient cannons?
Or do I want an ammo efficient, kinda hot energy based build?
Or, how can I make this build, a well balanced mix so that im not to weak in any one area?

^^THAT is Mechwarrior....choices, where you spend time actually thinking about your builds, where building a mech is a minigame inside a game..

Where its not just....hmm....weapons? Gauss Rifle, Gauss Rifle, Gauss Rifle...ok, ammo? click, click, click, click...ok, that oughta do it....battle: 3, 2, 1, GO!!! sit on a ridge......hold RMB...BAM, 1 kill......hold RMB, BAM 2 kills...4 minutes later...YAY, 5 kills, no skill, no thinking, no nothing...but KILLS!!!!

[verybad]

One Medic Army, on 12 December 2014 - 10:39 PM, said:

What about (someone else's suggestion of) an ammo resupply consumable? Refills a certain weight of ammo, or a certain percentage perhaps. Possibly with a wait timer before effect and some mech vulnerability added?

Something like "Call ammo carrier" instead of "Call airstrike", you could even make the thing highly explosive.

I'd love for ammo reloads to be possible in the game but ONLY if the reload system can be blown up.