53 replies to this topic

[Heisenbug]

I've had a lot of fun with CW, with one caveat. Finding yourself in a largely pug group isn't so bad, but finding yourself in a pug counter-attack vs. a clan pre-made... oy gevalt *head-bowed face-palm*.

It's really no different from shooting fish in a barrel, except that you're the fish. Attacking requires coordination, which pug's frequently lack (<-understatement). What really brings it home is watching a cataphract or atlas hide, waiting for the missile boats to rush the gate.

I'm not sure what the solution to this would be (does every attack have to be through the gated bottlenecks?). I'm not sure if there even needs to be one, but it certainly gives me pause before responding to those "Planet need defenders!" pop-ups.

I understand that there isn't much sympathy for puggers, but it should be recognized that casual players bring in a huge portion of the revenue to this game. I'm a lot less eager to play CW after the last two counter-attacks I was in, it was painful (and I'd think we'd all want as much engagement from the full player base as possible)...

[Ace Selin]

Russ stated CW is for 12 man groups, so guess all US solo PUGs should leave, take our disposable income elsewhere, find a new game?

[Pockets]

I've been on some well-coordinated PUG teams, but yes, attack/counter-attack does seem to bring out the worst of people not trying to team-play, or people with sniper builds and LRM boats in inappropriate situations that are afraid to go beyond the gates all game.

The solution is in-game VOIP - not a perfect solution, but when someone can say "I've distracted 6 of them, push against beta now" it's much more likely to get a response from those who would otherwise be afraid to go through the gates than someone rush-typing "push beta" without any context.

Edited by Pockets, 14 December 2014 - 05:49 AM.

[Voq]

It would go a long way for your casual users to hear that there is at least some thought about the situation.

And I have to admit I like Pockets idea. I don't like talking to people, lol, but it would definitely make for some instant teamwork.

[Wieland]

The solution is the simplest of all.
Make one map for premades and one for pugs.
All problems except zerging, low fps, hitreg etc. solved.

[Pockets]

I just had a super-organised PUG counter-attack game, it was lovely. There were 4-5 of us being chatty and the rest went along with the plan and pushed at the right time. Great fun.

Splitting people out into a different queue isn't a good solution; it makes things even worse for the people who are playing solo but trying to herd cats and play as a team. Improving the method of communication is what it would take.

[Martin Oberhofer]

one "solution" could be -> reducing the max Team size to 8
stil enough to Play with our friends and enough "teachers" for the pugs

[Mystere]

Heisenbug, on 14 December 2014 - 05:21 AM, said:

I've had a lot of fun with CW, with one caveat. Finding yourself in a largely pug group isn't so bad, but finding yourself in a pug counter-attack vs. a clan pre-made... oy gevalt *head-bowed face-palm*.

It's really no different from shooting fish in a barrel, except that you're the fish. Attacking requires coordination, which pug's frequently lack (<-understatement). What really brings it home is watching a cataphract or atlas hide, waiting for the missile boats to rush the gate.

I'm not sure what the solution to this would be (does every attack have to be through the gated bottlenecks?). I'm not sure if there even needs to be one, but it certainly gives me pause before responding to those "Planet need defenders!" pop-ups.

I understand that there isn't much sympathy for puggers, but it should be recognized that casual players bring in a huge portion of the revenue to this game. I'm a lot less eager to play CW after the last two counter-attacks I was in, it was painful (and I'd think we'd all want as much engagement from the full player base as possible)...

Role play it as ashigaru conscripts trying to assault veteran samurai. The results should be exactly the same.

Ace Selin, on 14 December 2014 - 05:46 AM, said:

Russ stated CW is for 12 man groups, so guess all US solo PUGs should leave, take our disposable income elsewhere, find a new game?

Provide the exact quote or Russ never said such a thing.

Wieland, on 14 December 2014 - 06:06 AM, said:

The solution is the simplest of all.
Make one map for premades and one for pugs.
All problems except zerging, low fps, hitreg etc. solved.

Armies have "elite" as well as "militia" units. CW represents them just fine.

Edited by Mystere, 14 December 2014 - 08:29 AM.

[EgoSlayer]

Mystere, on 14 December 2014 - 08:27 AM, said:

Provide the exact quote or Russ never said such a thing.

It's in the stickie at the top of this very forum:

http://mwomercs.com/...e-how-it-works/

Quote

The whole concept is that the match maker and CW was definitely built primarily for Units and groups of 12. It still works for small groups and solo players but they can get left behind - we are working on ways to greatly improve the ability of small groups and solo players to find matches more on this at the end.

I've been on some very successful solo drops though, even against larger Units. There is enough time to develop and execute stratigies using chat, and if the players are remotely decent and realize that following a plan is the only way to win, it can happen. Although attacking does take far more well executed plans than defense.

Edited by EgoSlayer, 14 December 2014 - 08:34 AM.

[Exodus001]

I would like to see the end of 12 man organised teams (I know this opinion won't be popular but..). It would be easier for small units like mine with a woping total of 5 players to fight competitively if all units could only field 1 lance per game. 3 separate but coordinated lances vs. 3 separate but coordinated lances would be more interesting than piles of random junk vs. perfected 12 man kill machines.

[Cion]

Part of war. This really forces you (and me) to improve and find a group.

I do get where you're coming from. Yesterday a bunch of PUGs did a counter attack (attack base) vs a 12 man group from LORDS. Heimdelight was there and twitched the whole massacre.

[BIoB]

12 Is vs 10 clan would be more fair, surely? Would also represent the superior numbers the Inner Sphere is supposed to be able to muster against the clans...

As it stands, I never go to play against the clans, there is no point

Also clan players seem like the type to play games on easy....just saying

[Mystere]

EgoSlayer, on 14 December 2014 - 08:31 AM, said:

It's in the stickie at the top of this very forum:

http://mwomercs.com/...e-how-it-works/

Quote

The whole concept is that the match maker and CW was definitely built primarily for Units and groups of 12. It still works for small groups and solo players but they can get left behind - we are working on ways to greatly improve the ability of small groups and solo players to find matches more on this at the end.

Many people choose to emphasize the first sentence and -- apparently -- conveniently ignore the second.



Thank you for taking the bait.

Edited by Mystere, 14 December 2014 - 08:46 AM.

[Mystere]

Exodus001, on 14 December 2014 - 08:37 AM, said:

I would like to see the end of 12 man organised teams (I know this opinion won't be popular but..).

I have only played solo all this time and I still totally disapprove of your suggestion. I think large groups have been royally screwed for long enough in favor of the soloists and casuals.

[EgoSlayer]

Mystere, on 14 December 2014 - 08:44 AM, said:

Many people choose to emphasize the first sentence and -- apparently -- conveniently ignore the second.



Thank you for taking the bait.

No, the second sentance doesn't remove the meaning of "primarily for Units and groups of 12." So no bait. Does it work for solos? Sure, and I said as much in my reply. But it doesn't change the fact that it was built with the PRIMARY purpose being to support 12 man groups.

[Glucose]

I want to add that I had a lot of fun in a PUG IS defense against a 10-12 man clan attack yesterday. We used chat liberally to inform everyone where people were attacking. We held off the attack pretty handily.

Granted defense is easier than attacking, but was still very fun. The biggest troubles are defending against the zerg rush. I don't see how you can stop an organized 12-man doing zerg rushes. They can do 4 waves of it if they want (35 x 4 = 140)

[Mystere]

EgoSlayer, on 14 December 2014 - 08:49 AM, said:

No, the second sentance doesn't remove the meaning of "primarily for Units and groups of 12." So no bait. Does it work for solos? Sure, and I said as much in my reply. But it doesn't change the fact that it was built with the PRIMARY purpose being to support 12 man groups.

I read "primarily" as "as of right now", especially given that the second half of the second sentence hints that corrective action will be taken.

P.S. I was baiting someone to quote Russ and highlight the first sentence ... as you did.

[Mystere]

Glucose, on 14 December 2014 - 08:52 AM, said:

The biggest troubles are defending against the zerg rush. I don't see how you can stop an organized 12-man doing zerg rushes. They can do 4 waves of it if they want (35 x 4 = 140)

Then be better than these guys:

[Veritae]

My pug IS counter attacked a 12 man CWI on Boreal last night and won. Stop complaining or assuming you'll lose, use a few minutes to strategize and then execute. Not that hard guys. This ain't public skirmish. Whether you're solo or a 12 man, if you fight like it's a public deathball match, you will/should lose.

[Reverendk]

Ace Selin, on 14 December 2014 - 05:46 AM, said:

Russ stated CW is for 12 man groups, so guess all US solo PUGs should leave, take our disposable income elsewhere, find a new game?

Acolytes of the High Elo lifestyle have already accepted this drag reducing truth into their hearts, but it sounds like you're the kind of player that is incapable of the high skill 'etitive play that is required for groups that want to win. Frankly it appears you aren't even IN a group. That's not unbalanced, that's just skill. Will one into existence. It's not hard if you've got the 'etitive skill required. They might be making changes and bug fixes to the maps and game flow for smaller groups, but if you don't have the high elo mentality, eleven friends, and a love of typing the NATO phonetic alphabet in team chat, you can pound sand. This is serious business for 'etitive players on 'etitive teams.

It's also high time that all of these low elo players stop complaining about "balance" and "nerfs" and "buffs". Playing clan mechs? That's a skillful choice for people that want to win, not a balance issue.

Energy hard points? Skill.

Single shell autocannons? Skill.

Game mechanics that are in beta and subject to change? SKILL

Broken out of bounds timer? Hot. Skill.

To quote a true high elo player "if the match maker keeps giving me these garbage teams I'm going to quit early." TRUE. SKILL. Gulf Echo Tango Gulf Oscar Oscar Delta.



Cheers
RK
ANSLDYTJMSYAOTG (Ain't no shame, ladies do your thing, just make sure you ahead of the game, if this hasn't all come together yet)
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