53 replies to this topic

[Whiteagle]

MAXrobo, on 14 December 2014 - 07:57 PM, said:

Yes, please. I wish there was some way for the defenders to actually defend their gates. As it is now the defenders are basically trapped behind their own gates and want them to come down just as much as the attackers do. If there was some way for the defenders to get on top of or over the gates then there would be a reason for them to be there. It makes no sense for the gates to be there as they are now.

Helsbane, on 14 December 2014 - 09:44 PM, said:

A wall is something you can use as a strongpoint, holding the enemy at bay from the top or nearby high vantage points. Instead, these wall simply trap the defenders inside and give the enemy a place to consolidate and push. Horrible map design overall.

Telmasa, on 15 December 2014 - 02:25 AM, said:

The thing that gets me, is that on the hot yellow map, it's easy for attackers to move to certain spots and kill the generators without more than one or two of the defenders at a time being able to do much about it, whereas on the snow map, in complete contrast, the defenders have a very easy time lining up such that any mech poking up in order to hit a generator can be hit by 6+ mechs at any given time.

Yes, the biggest issue with Community Warfare right now is that the Gates are as big a hindrance to Defenders as they are to Attackers.

Sulfurous Rift (The YELLOW map) would actually be a pretty good baseline for CW maps if the Defenders had a means of ramping OVER the Gate from the inside; The Gamma and Alpha Generators are JUST high enough to be sniped long range from down the lane, while the back of the Defenders half gives wide enough berth for Defensive long range builds to be of use once the Gates go down.
The Lanes themselves are well thought out, spread far enough apart that they can actually put pressure on the Defenders to keep them covered and with plenty of cover in them to have decent fights up and down their length...
Problem is, most Defenders can't even access them UNTIL the Gate is down, and by that point you are better off sticking around the Main Generator, something that being able to ramp over the Gates from the inside would instantly solve.

Boreal Vault, on the hand, is an un-salvageable mess...
Attackers need to perch right next to the Gate to even get a shot at the Generator, while the Defenders have a huge line of sight on all the perches.
This is especially grating when you come up against Clanners, whose Trial Mechs are pretty well spec'd for Long Range.
On top of ALL THIS, there a huge bottleneck that BOTH Gates lead into that the Defenders can easily snipe from their Hill.

[SirSlaughter]

Lily from animove, on 15 December 2014 - 03:19 AM, said:

generators ourside the walls? thats a pointless defense concept.

Ever played Planetside? They should be placed in areas which are reachable by both teams

[Whiteagle]

SirSlaughter, on 15 December 2014 - 12:17 PM, said:

Ever played Planetside? They should be placed in areas which are reachable by both teams

You mean Planetside 2?
In the Original Planetside, you needed to hack your way into the Base first...
Still, when you are making Planetside 2's Map Design look highly competent by comparison, one really wonders if this game is worth anything...

[Malleus011]

I'm all for removing the gates and adding a second turret.

Better would be removing the gates and replacing them with minefields.

[TamerSA]

The real problem isn't the fact that the gates are useless or that attacking is too hard, or that the turrets at the gates mean nothing.....

The real problem is that, with the current designs and direction of the invasion game mode, the game really boils down to rush tactics where the attackers try to ignore the defenders and hit the base as hard as they can on each wave.

On some of the original posts when this all started, PGI stated that their vision was to have battles that feel epic and that make you feel like you have accomplished something by attacking or defending. In my mind this should still be directed in such a way that mech on mech combat is viable and what you want to focus on, while still providing more depth than standard arena skirmishes.

Unfortunately I would have to really think about how you would achieve that using the resources already put into CW, but I think that should still be the focus. You should still feel like you beat a team of mechwarriors, not play Tower Defense and hope to kill all the mechs before they reach the base.

All of this being said, CW matches are already immensely fun. This can only improve, I'm sure

[Felio]

And it really pushes the suspension of disbelief. Who would put the generators outside the base?

[9erRed]

Greetings all,

On a related note for the CW maps and the DropShip Rv locations of the defenders.

- Currently it is actually detrimental to destroy any Enemy Mech as you approach the objective.
- If the Enemy's DropShip is only seconds from landing they are dropped right in your face in a fresh Mech.
(and right at the objective your after)

I have some difficulty with where the defenders DropShip landings are currently positioned,
1. the Orbital gun has a radius arc it turns through to engage any targets.
- this would interfere with 2 of the DropShips Rv's as the ships could not get in under the gun barrels.
(see map image)
2. The defenders DropShip Rv is too close to the base an structures, dangerously close.
- I propose moving it back a bit to just outside the defenders maps borders, requiring a slight change to map area and allowing the defenders to approach the base through ravines or access tunnels. (see map image)
3. This also provides some cover while landing the Mech's and still gives the DropShips lines of fire to the Enemy in the base area.

This could probably be done for the two maps we have now and designed into any future maps. As a side note here, you should be able to hear those guns firing miles/Km's away, VERY loud. Normal real arty can be hard somewhere in the range of 12km's away.

Here's the enhanced map image for reference:



Just some idea's,
Aim True an Run Cool,
9erRed

[Verkhne]

we need a firing step on gates with gun slits....(various heights and locations suitable for most mechs)

[Tarl Cabot]

Many have noted the location of the generators, (chuckles) what combat engineers in their right mind would build the gates while leaving a ramp that allows an attacker of any sort easy access to the top of the wall on the frozen map? Have only dropped 2x on the sulfur map, thus no detail comments for it.

There should be two ways to take down the gates. Destruction of the gates/connecting walls or the generators (located in an semi secure location behind the gates, and jump capable mechs would have a chance to destroy said generators while outrunning/out maneuvering the defenders.

With that, ramps on the defender's side to allow the defenders to shoot over the gates.

With a few changes, the defenders/attackers should be changing places. Where the generators are, small outcroppings, should be on the attackers side, the ramps on the attackers side should be on the defenders side.

And if only making minor changes with destructible gates without changing the ramps, move the gates up a quarter of the way. Attackers no longer have easy access to the generators but if they hit it with jumping mechs going over the wall while also also giving the gates hitpoints, that would also work.

Edited by Tarl Cabot, 17 December 2014 - 02:21 PM.

[InspectorG]

Rouken, on 14 December 2014 - 08:11 PM, said:

They serve as nice choke points. But you can't defend them so they will be opened, and quickly. That is the only part I'm disappointed with. I was hoping that cracking the base would be more difficult.

Well, JJ kinda mitigate walls. More turrets/stronger turrets would mess with game balance.

Maybe on some drops the gates 'recharge' and close if not baby-sat by an attacker.

Plus, subterranean maps/ fully enclosed maps would stop the JJ zerg.

[9erRed]

Greetings all,

See Paul's latest Post for 3 new generators on the defence base that need to be destroyed before the new Gun Gen cover will open.

See here: http://mwomercs.com/...ectives-dec-17/

With images.

Aim True and Run Cool,
9erRed

[Deathlike]

I'm not sure "useless" is the right word. "Uninspired" is the right word.

If you're building a base, you should probably have at least 2 levels of protection... like an outer base... and then an inner base.. similar to a "motte and bailey".

I'm not saying the designs need to be elaborate, but it feels like the "good base building" is entirely Lostech.

[oldradagast]

The problem is that they are pointless.

All they do is break up the flow of the match with a frustrating slog against NPC turrets while the defenders either stand around, bored, or take pot-shots on the attackers. And that's excluding the insane design of generators keeping doors closed... which defies the laws of reality even for a game about big stompy robots.

The games should be directly destroyable with guns... no silly generator nonsense, and the whole concept of obvious, limited choke points, zerg rushes, and general repetitive simple-mindedness of CW battles needs to be rethought.

The gates aren't the sole problem, but they are an issue...

Edited by oldradagast, 17 December 2014 - 07:28 PM.

[Mystere]

Deathlike, on 17 December 2014 - 07:08 PM, said:

I'm not sure "useless" is the right word. "Uninspired" is the right word.

If you're building a base, you should probably have at least 2 levels of protection... like an outer base... and then an inner base.. similar to a "motte and bailey".

I'm not saying the designs need to be elaborate, but it feels like the "good base building" is entirely Lostech.

Allowing the defenders to open the gates in order to sally seems to be Lostech as well.

Edited by Mystere, 17 December 2014 - 09:40 PM.