52 replies to this topic

[Warrior Caste]

Currently, CW has 3 tactics:

1) Slow and steady push to pressure the defenders.
2) Sniping/poptarting outside of gates.
3) Zerg rush


If you remove zerg rush, the game boils down to slow and steady pushes or sniping/poptarting, which is basically skirmish mode. Zerg rushes add another option for the attackers. It also forces the defenders have to think about scouting outside of each gate, positioning their mechs, and legging the rushers. Adding variety to attacks and coming up with counter-tactics for defenders makes CW more fun than just a glorified skirmish mode without zerg rushes.

Edited by Warrior Caste, 17 December 2014 - 12:13 PM.

[Lily from animove]

if you keep zerg rush, in a few weeks even the last and slowest no skiller will only zerg rush.

why even playing pvp games?

[Fox Kell]

Warrior Caste, on 17 December 2014 - 12:13 PM, said:

Currently, CW has 3 tactics:

1) Slow and steady push to pressure the defenders.
2) Sniping/poptarting outside of gates.
3) Zerg rush


If you remove zerg rush, the game boils down to slow and steady pushes or sniping/poptarting, which is basically skirmish mode. Zerg rushes add another option for the attackers. It also forces the defenders have to think about scouting outside of each gate, positioning their mechs, and legging the rushers. Adding variety to attacks and coming up with counter-tactics for defenders makes CW more fun than just a glorified skirmish mode without zerg rushes.

You want PVE, go to training...

[RG Notch]

Warrior Caste, on 17 December 2014 - 12:13 PM, said:

Currently, CW has 3 tactics:

1) Slow and steady push to pressure the defenders.
2) Sniping/poptarting outside of gates.
3) Zerg rush


If you remove zerg rush, the game boils down to slow and steady pushes or sniping/poptarting, which is basically skirmish mode. Zerg rushes add another option for the attackers. It also forces the defenders have to think about scouting outside of each gate, positioning their mechs, and legging the rushers. Adding variety to attacks and coming up with counter-tactics for defenders makes CW more fun than just a glorified skirmish mode without zerg rushes.

You do realize a large segment of the population would love another skirmish mode with respawns.

[GrinNfool]

I am pretty against the current light chacanery going on. Its just to easy to do, and thats is a serious problem especially when you are going to promote the mode as using 4 mechs. Things need to change like it or not, its just a silly gimmick going on at present, everyone jumpin in a JJ light and win in 5 min. It is boring gameplay. Don't know if generators need more health, turrets need more damage, or maybe there should be multiple layered objectives objectives that have to be hit before the main generator can go down. Eitherway whats currently happening is the result of it being the fastest way to earn faction xp, not the result of it being a fun mechanic, people will always go the path of least resistance, don't delude yourself into thinking people are doing it because it is fun.

[Warrior Caste]

RG Notch, on 17 December 2014 - 12:24 PM, said:

You do realize a large segment of the population would love another skirmish mode with respawns.

That's basically CW without zerg rushes. More tactics = more fun in CW. Less tactics = boring, old skirmish mode.

Edited by Warrior Caste, 17 December 2014 - 12:30 PM.

[Gas Guzzler]

GrinNfool, on 17 December 2014 - 12:24 PM, said:

I am pretty against the current light chacanery going on. Its just to easy to do, and thats is a serious problem especially when you are going to promote the mode as using 4 mechs. Things need to change like it or not, its just a silly gimmick going on at present, everyone jumpin in a JJ light and win in 5 min. It is boring gameplay. Don't know if generators need more health, turrets need more damage, or maybe there should be multiple layered objectives objectives that have to be hit before the main generator can go down. Eitherway whats currently happening is the result of it being the fastest way to earn faction xp, not the result of it being a fun mechanic, people will always go the path of least resistance, don't delude yourself into thinking people are doing it because it is fun.

Yeah, they are doing it to take over planets. And it is more fun than just dropping against no opponent.

[RG Notch]

Warrior Caste, on 17 December 2014 - 12:25 PM, said:

That's CW without zerg rushes.

Umm yeah and again a lot of people would love just that. Not agreeing with them just pointing out there are a lot of them.

[Warrior Caste]

F0xdi3, on 17 December 2014 - 12:23 PM, said:

You want PVE, go to training...

I've been on both the winning and losing side of zerg rushes. When the zerg rush failed, the defenders had properly scounted outside the gates, positioned their mechs to plug up the rushing lane, and popped one leg and moved on to the next mech. Tell me how those tactics are PvE.

[Sandpit]

Zerg rushes aren't going anywhere.

It also doesn't matter what PGI does to balance the effectiveness of them. They'll still be used effectively against the same people unable to cope with them today because it's not a balance issue to begin with. It's a "coordination and teamwork" thing, and most of the people complaining don't understand, refuse to accept it, and are just plain oblivious that it's a coordination issue.

[GrinNfool]

^^ The issue with this is you are placing all of the burden of skill on one side. I'm able to make a leg shot on a spider moving at 148 kph maybe 50% of the time, maybe you can do it 100%, but I know alot of people can only make that shot MAYBE 10-25% of the time. Beyond that if you are positioned so far up to try to make the leg shots matter, if they get by you it takes a while to go to the generator in a larger mech.

You can't really believe that is solid game design can you? I mean any newbie can jump in a light with JJs and try to run to a point designated by their leader (assuming people listen but thats fair to place that on both sides of the coin). The same can't be said of the opposite though not every player can pull off legs shots all the time vs super fast mechs who are making 0 effort to engage. The entirerity of the burden of skill is placed on the defending team, thats just really really bad gameplay.

[Malcolm Vordermark]

I would love it if the zerg rush was something you had to set up.

So instead just throwing waves of mechs at omega to bring it down you had to do other stuff to first weaken it enough for that to be viable. Ideally, you would spend 3 waves setting things up and the 4th wave would be the rush on the objective. Maybe 3rd wave so its not an all or nothing proposition.

Of course then it wouldn't be a "rush" it would just be a push.

Edited by Rouken, 17 December 2014 - 12:48 PM.

[Lumber One]

I am generally disappointed by the ammount of limitations the game is suffering. Clan Tech is so much restricted in the name of balance, that it kind of lost its magic.

And now some would like to even restrict game TACTICS?? WTF?

People who want more restrictions must be either mindless sheep, or maybe dictators, wishing to adjust the whole world to their taste..Or I don´t know.

Give us more freedom genrally! More IS mech variants! More Clan Omnipads if we have to have them ( )..more modes, more tactics! Please!!

[Warrior Caste]

GrinNfool, on 17 December 2014 - 12:46 PM, said:

^^ The issue with this is you are placing all of the burden of skill on one side.

And without zerg rushes, the burden of skill is on the attackers. Does it really take that much skill for the defenders to snipe attackers camped outside the gates and then win through attrition?

[Popper100]

I would speak to the moderate group in saying, we don't want the tactic of a rushdown to simply disappear. It is a viable tactic.

No, I would speak for the moderate group in saying, we want the rushdown to be moved to a later point in the match so that combat can occur and tactics on both sides can flourish. I wrote a long winded thread on a way to accomplish this, but it was shot down.

A shame really.

[Sandpit]

Warrior Caste, on 17 December 2014 - 12:56 PM, said:

And without zerg rushes, the burden of skill is on the attackers. Does it really take that much skill for the defenders to snipe attackers camped outside the gates and then win through attrition?

Not really
For some it does though apparently

[Warrior Caste]

Rouken, on 17 December 2014 - 12:47 PM, said:

I would love it if the zerg rush was something you had to set up.

In good groups, it is actually set up. I've seen lights/mediums feinting at one gate as a distraction, while the main group rushes from the other gate. I've seen dual/tri pronged rushes that cause the defenders to panic and distribute their mech unevenly.

I've seen these tactics backfire, when the defenders scout to see it's actually a feint and how many attackers are distributed between the gates.

Edited by Warrior Caste, 17 December 2014 - 01:10 PM.

[Sandpit]

Warrior Caste, on 17 December 2014 - 01:09 PM, said:

In good groups, it is actually set up. I've seen lights/mediums feinting at one gate as a distraction, while the main group rushes from the other gate.

ding ding
that's the difference between a mob of pugs doing a bum rush and a coordinated team of pugs using tactics.

[GrinNfool]

Warrior Caste, on 17 December 2014 - 12:56 PM, said:

And without zerg rushes, the burden of skill is on the attackers. Does it really take that much skill for the defenders to snipe attackers camped outside the gates and then win through attrition?

So your argument for putting ALL of the burden of skill on the defenders, is if you can't rush, its about a 60% attack 40% defender? Defending should be easier.... you have battlements, and static defenses. You don't think that without the zerg rush 100% of the skill is on the attackers do you? Both sides still have to aim, and still have to coordinate. If one side is better than the other they will likely win, if the skill level is equal then yes the defender likely wins, but I don't really see that as an issue, given the previously mentioned benefits defending brings.

And popper I don't disagree, I have no issue with making lights viable, but it shouldn't be the current version where everyone gets in a light and is a 5 min match if the defending team is horrible, and a 10-15 min match if they aren't. Attacking is just a gimme right now. They need multiple layered objectives, or health increase on the generator, or better turrets something to make it not the be easy mode win it currently is.

[Sandpit]

GrinNfool, on 17 December 2014 - 01:14 PM, said:

5 min match if the defending team is horrible,

yes, yes it should. The match shouldn't last longer if one of the teams plays horribly.