52 replies to this topic

[Ph30nix]

You know what happened in the last game where the attackers tried to zerg? we had a couple scouts outside the gates and they called out where they were going so we had plenty of time to react.

next thing you know we had 12 legged attackers trying to limp their way to the generator. (was funny one of them got both legs blown off in mid air trying to fly over gate)

Also if the zerg tactic continues you will see peoples loadouts and tactics change, more people will learn to target legs and if Light rushes become common you will see more anti light load outs on mechs.

[Sandpit]

Ph30nix, on 17 December 2014 - 01:20 PM, said:

You know what happened in the last game where the attackers tried to zerg? we had a couple scouts outside the gates and they called out where they were going so we had plenty of time to react.

next thing you know we had 12 legged attackers trying to limp their way to the generator. (was funny one of them got both legs blown off in mid air trying to fly over gate)

Also if the zerg tactic continues you will see peoples loadouts and tactics change, more people will learn to target legs and if Light rushes become common you will see more anti light load outs on mechs.

it's already happened.
Zerg was "the thing" for about 2 days

[Joe Mallad]

Warrior Caste, on 17 December 2014 - 12:13 PM, said:

Currently, CW has 3 tactics:

1) Slow and steady push to pressure the defenders.
2) Sniping/poptarting outside of gates.
3) Zerg rush


If you remove zerg rush, the game boils down to slow and steady pushes or sniping/poptarting, which is basically skirmish mode. Zerg rushes add another option for the attackers. It also forces the defenders have to think about scouting outside of each gate, positioning their mechs, and legging the rushers. Adding variety to attacks and coming up with counter-tactics for defenders makes CW more fun than just a glorified skirmish mode without zerg rushes.

i dont have an issue with the rush tactic. But the issue is, there needs to be more objectives other than rush and very easily kill the cannon generator. There needs to be at least another or two extra generators in different locations of the base that need to be taken out before the main one can be. Or at least all three need to be taken in in some fashion. You would think that ANY smart military with a big ass orbital gun like this would have BACK UP POWER GENERATORS in case of such a reason

Again, with having at least 2 or 3 TOTAL generators in the base in different locations, still allows for those to zerg rush (if they want) but they cant all rush to one point and win. Having multiple points either forces them to split and go after different generators or all move together from generator to generator BUT... give the defenders some extra time to try and counter between generator pushes. Even if the attackers take out the first generator and move on to the next one all together, there is a chance some of the attackers can be killed before the next generator is hit. This then takes SOME pressure off the defenders because there are less attackers movie on to the next generator.

Edited by Yoseful Mallad, 17 December 2014 - 01:36 PM.

[Tynan]

Or they could, you know, put in multiple staggered objectives instead of just Omega. The gates *should* have been that but they basically just fall down instantly unless you're up against smart Clanners on Boreal. Give the defenders multiple objectives to defend. Hell, make them defend simultaneously. Would make for far more interesting tactics than "here are some token doors and one generator."

[Mystere]

Lily from animove, on 17 December 2014 - 12:15 PM, said:

if you keep zerg rush, in a few weeks even the last and slowest no skiller will only zerg rush.

why even playing pvp games?

From another thread:

Mystere, on 17 December 2014 - 01:05 PM, said:

Massacring each and every "Banzai!" charge may get boring, but that is the enemy commander's fault. It's not my job to tell the enemy how they can beat us.

That's how I am role playing this particular situation and I am fine with it.

RG Notch, on 17 December 2014 - 12:24 PM, said:

You do realize a large segment of the population would love another skirmish mode with respawns.

Then put it in the non-CW queues. Let them do it there forever and ever, for all I care.

[Sandpit]

Mystere, on 17 December 2014 - 01:40 PM, said:

From another thread:

It's just people who can't coordinate dude. it's the same ones that cry about premades most times. Teamwork is "op" after all remember?

[Mystere]

GrinNfool, on 17 December 2014 - 12:46 PM, said:

^^ The issue with this is you are placing all of the burden of skill on one side. I'm able to make a leg shot on a spider moving at 148 kph maybe 50% of the time, maybe you can do it 100%, but I know alot of people can only make that shot MAYBE 10-25% of the time. Beyond that if you are positioned so far up to try to make the leg shots matter, if they get by you it takes a while to go to the generator in a larger mech.

You can't really believe that is solid game design can you? I mean any newbie can jump in a light with JJs and try to run to a point designated by their leader (assuming people listen but thats fair to place that on both sides of the coin). The same can't be said of the opposite though not every player can pull off legs shots all the time vs super fast mechs who are making 0 effort to engage. The entirerity of the burden of skill is placed on the defending team, thats just really really bad gameplay.

Here's the rub. I'd rather that PGI continue working on more interesting maps and games modes, than get tied down -- again -- in trying to find the "perfect" balance, and possibly by creating another "questionable" mechanic.

How much time do you think PGI has wasted on all of the balancing changes that have now gone full circle?

[Mystere]

GrinNfool, on 17 December 2014 - 01:14 PM, said:

a 5 min match if the defending team is horrible

If a planet's defenders are really horrible, I wouldn't even mind 5 second battles. That just means spending less time taking this planet, thus allowing us to quickly move on to the next.

[pwnface]

Tynan, on 17 December 2014 - 01:37 PM, said:

Or they could, you know, put in multiple staggered objectives instead of just Omega. The gates *should* have been that but they basically just fall down instantly unless you're up against smart Clanners on Boreal. Give the defenders multiple objectives to defend. Hell, make them defend simultaneously. Would make for far more interesting tactics than "here are some token doors and one generator."

Or they could make additional maps that have multiple objectives instead of tweaking the 2 maps that we have now that don't need to be "balanced" as much as people are saying. I'd rather see more maps and more game modes besides ONLY attack the orbital cannon. Doesn't mean they need to change what they have currently.

[MischiefSC]

The team I drop with hasn't lost to a light mech zerg since late day 1. It's the heavy/medium rushes on waves 1-3 that are effective. The wave 4 light rush is just the finisher.

[-Natural Selection-]

People seem to treat everything outside the gate as the spawn area thinking its taboo. This to me seems to be most of the issue. People are not going to get their intel. People will not step foot outside the gate and wait till they come in.

Once those people come in the gate, they have almost NO choice to base rush, or get rekt by turrets, dropships, players, then respawns.

Im cool with it how it is. But whatever gets "fixed" we will adapt. Winning will still happen, just by other means soon to be fixed.

[Lily from animove]

Mystere, on 17 December 2014 - 01:42 PM, said:

From another thread:





Then put it in the non-CW queues. Let them do it there forever and ever, for all I care.

when a true zerg rush fails it s just the attackers fault the defenders cna not shoto down enough mechs in time too prevent them reaching the generator.

[Siegegun]

Wrong Lily. Perhaps that has been YOUR experience, but not mine.

[operatorZ]

Siegegun, on 17 December 2014 - 03:50 PM, said:

Wrong Lily. Perhaps that has been YOUR experience, but not mine.

....and...whats your reason why a true zerg rush fails?

[Bigbacon]

better map design and multi-tiered objectives that can't be skipped.

Edited by Bigbacon, 17 December 2014 - 04:13 PM.

[pwnface]

Lily from animove, on 17 December 2014 - 03:47 PM, said:

when a true zerg rush fails it s just the attackers fault the defenders cna not shoto down enough mechs in time too prevent them reaching the generator.

This makes no sense to me. It is the attackers fault the defenders can't shoot down enough mechs? Isn't that the defenders fault? Are you on drugs?

[pwnface]

operatorZ, on 17 December 2014 - 03:56 PM, said:

....and...whats your reason why a true zerg rush fails?

Defenders have proper scouting and coordination to counter an easily tactic to counter.

Defenders should be staggered from the base.

This means if you are a slow dump truck stay near your base.

If you are in a heavy mech with some speed you can venture a bit farther out but not so far you can't make it back to the base to greet the enemy at the cannon.

If you are a in a faster light/medium mech you should be closer to the gates so you can intercept them as soon as they are in range and chase them down as they run past you.

[Tezcatli]

How about more then one object? Or greatly buff the HP of the gen, but add side objectives that reduce the HP of the gen.

[pwnface]

Tezcatli, on 17 December 2014 - 05:06 PM, said:

How about more then one object? Or greatly buff the HP of the gen, but add side objectives that reduce the HP of the gen.

patch notes are out, they added 3 objectives that need to be destroyed to access the main orbital cannon.

[Tezcatli]

pwnface, on 17 December 2014 - 05:42 PM, said:

patch notes are out, they added 3 objectives that need to be destroyed to access the main orbital cannon.

Need to check that out. Thanks.