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Please Keep Zerg Rush In Cw


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#41 Basilisk222

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Posted 17 December 2014 - 06:05 PM

View PostLily from animove, on 17 December 2014 - 03:47 PM, said:


when a true zerg rush fails it s just the attackers fault the defenders cna not shoto down enough mechs in time too prevent them reaching the generator.


Nopey Nope. First thing I do I cut off the second half of your cool force, slowing them down so they get hit, all while fulling you full of lead from the front, while my buds blow all that nice steel off your butts.

a few of my light friends meet you before you get to gun, and maybe some mediums, and combined with the lasers, you're dead. There is less of you and you'll die faster from the lasers, and my friends, meanwhile the forced detour slows you down and probably 2-3 of you are dead. Best part is you'll keep charging, the lasers have taken little damage, 1/2 your forces are gimped or dead, and the other half is now running for broke into a deathtrap.

The cannon takes a couple of hits, and you're 1/4 of the way gone.

That's if we DON'T spam arties and Air Strikes like it's going out of style.

#42 Lily from animove

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Posted 17 December 2014 - 06:22 PM

View PostKilgorin Strom, on 17 December 2014 - 06:05 PM, said:


Nopey Nope. First thing I do I cut off the second half of your cool force, slowing them down so they get hit, all while fulling you full of lead from the front, while my buds blow all that nice steel off your butts.

a few of my light friends meet you before you get to gun, and maybe some mediums, and combined with the lasers, you're dead. There is less of you and you'll die faster from the lasers, and my friends, meanwhile the forced detour slows you down and probably 2-3 of you are dead. Best part is you'll keep charging, the lasers have taken little damage, 1/2 your forces are gimped or dead, and the other half is now running for broke into a deathtrap.

The cannon takes a couple of hits, and you're 1/4 of the way gone.

That's if we DON'T spam arties and Air Strikes like it's going out of style.


do you? lol yeah JJ's will not agree with you.

also the attackers on the way also shoot at your lights and mediums legging them, and since you are not 100% made of them they will not have a chance to leg as many as you think or describe.

#43 Ozric

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Posted 17 December 2014 - 06:23 PM

Zerg rushing even feels like a broken mechanic when you're doing it.

#44 MischiefSC

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Posted 17 December 2014 - 07:21 PM

View Postpwnface, on 17 December 2014 - 05:01 PM, said:


Defenders have proper scouting and coordination to counter an easily tactic to counter.

Defenders should be staggered from the base.

This means if you are a slow dump truck stay near your base.

If you are in a heavy mech with some speed you can venture a bit farther out but not so far you can't make it back to the base to greet the enemy at the cannon.

If you are a in a faster light/medium mech you should be closer to the gates so you can intercept them as soon as they are in range and chase them down as they run past you.


I had a match the other day where we scouted the enemy zerg rush before they even finished assembling and crushed them before they even got to the gate. Confined valley approach, arty, LRMs, streaks and a gate that turned into a PPC+AC firing line. It was a turkey shoot.

Playing aggressive on defense makes all the difference.

#45 Alex Warden Wolf

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Posted 17 December 2014 - 11:19 PM

View PostWarrior Caste, on 17 December 2014 - 12:56 PM, said:


And without zerg rushes, the burden of skill is on the attackers. Does it really take that much skill for the defenders to snipe attackers camped outside the gates and then win through attrition?


nope it doesnt... zerg rushes became so popular because the defenders had a comparibly easy job... i agree zerg rushes shouldnt disappear completely, PGI just has to raise the incentive for proper fights... (well actually zerg rushes are senseless for both sides, since capping a planet is the only benfit you get from it... and as we all know, that´s not giving you anything currently...
and a proper fight gives both sides the opportunity to earn way more LP, money and XP, while a zerg rush denies that from both sides... )

View PostMischiefSC, on 17 December 2014 - 07:21 PM, said:


I had a match the other day where we scouted the enemy zerg rush before they even finished assembling and crushed them before they even got to the gate. Confined valley approach, arty, LRMs, streaks and a gate that turned into a PPC+AC firing line. It was a turkey shoot.

Playing aggressive on defense makes all the difference.


pls tell that to my drop commanders... they still dont believe me,...

#46 kapusta11

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Posted 17 December 2014 - 11:28 PM

Relax OP, zerg rush is here to stay.

#47 MischiefSC

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Posted 17 December 2014 - 11:38 PM

View PostAlex Warden Wolf, on 17 December 2014 - 11:19 PM, said:

nope it doesnt... zerg rushes became so popular because the defenders had a comparibly easy job... i agree zerg rushes shouldnt disappear completely, PGI just has to raise the incentive for proper fights... (well actually zerg rushes are senseless for both sides, since capping a planet is the only benfit you get from it... and as we all know, that´s not giving you anything currently...
and a proper fight gives both sides the opportunity to earn way more LP, money and XP, while a zerg rush denies that from both sides... )



pls tell that to my drop commanders... they still dont believe me,...



It's really simple. The further back you start on them the longer you have to kill them before they get to your base. 1 or 2 weapon cycles is enough to make the difference between legging them right next to your turrets and having a legged mech shooting your gen while you're trying to finish him.

On Boreal anyway. Hardcore mode is absolutely playing part way down the valleys. This leaves the attackers with pretty much no approach option - they just stand in the open and soak ERPPC/ERLL/Gauss fire. Next best ******* move to camping their dropships.

#48 Joseph Mallan

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Posted 18 December 2014 - 04:35 AM

View PostPopper100, on 17 December 2014 - 01:03 PM, said:

I would speak to the moderate group in saying, we don't want the tactic of a rushdown to simply disappear. It is a viable tactic.

No, I would speak for the moderate group in saying, we want the rushdown to be moved to a later point in the match so that combat can occur and tactics on both sides can flourish. I wrote a long winded thread on a way to accomplish this, but it was shot down.

A shame really.

The problem is, You want everyone to fight in a measured and predictable way. And thats a bunch o crap. If the enemy is mostly Zergrushing, then find a defense that works against it.

Quit asking Mom and Dad to solve your problems!

#49 Widowmaker1981

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Posted 18 December 2014 - 05:02 AM

The main problem is, no one can stop it reliably, largely due to firestarter hitboxes/hit reg. Game just yesterday i was spectating the last man alive on our team (we got a bit stomped) in a FS9. He shut down badly within 150 meters of no less than 5 mechs, they were all hammering him and the screen was full of explosions, for about 8 seconds.. he lived through it and managed to run off.......... that is ABSURD in a 35 ton mech, an Atlas wouldn't have lived.

Please explain how you kill 12 of them that are not shut down and only trying to evade damage at 150+ kph? you might get 2 or 3.

1) You should have to fight the enemy team to win, because that's why we are playing this game, to fight mechs.

2) If its too hard for attackers if the zerg rush 'tactic' is stopped, then other balance changes can be made. more tonnage for attacking team drop deck is one idea.

3) People calling this a 'tactic' are deluded. a tactic should require some thought to come up with, a 5 year old could figure this one out in 5 minutes. It adds no depth.

Idea for stopping the rush tactic: Add 2 conquest style cap points to the map somewhere out of LOS from the main generator, and make it so both points need to be held by the attacking team to lower a shield/open a door allowing you to shoot the main generator. This would probably mean the defender spawn should be moved further away from the action, and probably some other help for attacking team.

#50 Lily from animove

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Posted 18 December 2014 - 06:51 AM

View PostMischiefSC, on 17 December 2014 - 07:21 PM, said:


I had a match the other day where we scouted the enemy zerg rush before they even finished assembling and crushed them before they even got to the gate. Confined valley approach, arty, LRMs, streaks and a gate that turned into a PPC+AC firing line. It was a turkey shoot.

Playing aggressive on defense makes all the difference.


So you found horrible opponents crushed them and thats why zergrush is beatable? thats like owning a newby in a

View PostWidowmaker1981, on 18 December 2014 - 05:02 AM, said:

The main problem is, no one can stop it reliably, largely due to firestarter hitboxes/hit reg. Game just yesterday i was spectating the last man alive on our team (we got a bit stomped) in a FS9. He shut down badly within 150 meters of no less than 5 mechs, they were all hammering him and the screen was full of explosions, for about 8 seconds.. he lived through it and managed to run off.......... that is ABSURD in a 35 ton mech, an Atlas wouldn't have lived.

Please explain how you kill 12 of them that are not shut down and only trying to evade damage at 150+ kph? you might get 2 or 3.

1) You should have to fight the enemy team to win, because that's why we are playing this game, to fight mechs.

2) If its too hard for attackers if the zerg rush 'tactic' is stopped, then other balance changes can be made. more tonnage for attacking team drop deck is one idea.

3) People calling this a 'tactic' are deluded. a tactic should require some thought to come up with, a 5 year old could figure this one out in 5 minutes. It adds no depth.

Idea for stopping the rush tactic: Add 2 conquest style cap points to the map somewhere out of LOS from the main generator, and make it so both points need to be held by the attacking team to lower a shield/open a door allowing you to shoot the main generator. This would probably mean the defender spawn should be moved further away from the action, and probably some other help for attacking team.



they will explain you this, by shwoing you an example whee some complete skilless people failed with it. And so that si their universal "proof" that it is beatable, without ever caring about how the objective truth looks like especially when those is carried by true skilled players.
TBR saying TBR is bad.

Edited by Lily from animove, 18 December 2014 - 07:27 AM.


#51 Mad Porthos

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Posted 18 December 2014 - 07:03 AM

Ya know, there may be things to say for keeping zerg rush and removing it. It's true, those who know what they are doing can likely slow or fight a zerg rush competently and stop it's threat. It's also true that it's a great efficient tactic in terms of time, because if you see your opponents are sloppy or uncoordinated, it sort of recommends itself.

The thing is as much as it is valid, it's unrealistic right now - in the sense of, how easy it is to accomplish. Bases are built at this moment in a flawwed way, initially, so that only one generator would open EVERY gate, additionally even with three generators, it's odd that gates would open once powered DOWN. I understand that's a mechanical logistic because we can't have mechs grabbing things with thier hand actuators (or lack thereof) and forcing open structures... but realistically, you would think, at least if it's the case that a generator being shot out would open a gate, that said generator would then service ONLY that one gate. That way for example, the left gate might be open, but the right (and middle on sulphurous) would still be closed. Furthermore, there might be generators that service additional turrets, such that while some turrets stay active in the core, some point to striking generators exist to make the enemy base safer at one stage or another, yet up until that point deadlier. Whatever the case, these generators would be armored and placed behind defenses, at the very least things like defensive walls that block firing lines from outside the walls/base, like you see around the dropship on River City. Generators might even be physically part of a gate or wall, but again only on the inside face of a base's gate towers, necessitating a jump capable mech making it over and pouring destruction into it unopposed.

In it's initial design, the CW maps had this truly bizarre unrealistic ramp outside each gate so that the enemy could walk up at an angle and fire at the generator to open the gate... sort of a bizarre thing to put in when you build your own base and EXACTLY the sort of thing that seige engineers would use dynamite and earth moving equipment to remove when they were building the base. No excuse of "it would be too much trouble" can apply, since they obviously went through much more trouble to build the base and place all the walls in the first place and tunnel into hillsides etc. It was just such obvious and horrid simplistic design where they were like...oh, what if the attackers didn't bring jump jet mechs, so cannot get an angle to shoot the generators... we have to create a platform so they can hit said generators/unlock points!



I think that the idea of doors over the orbital cannon generator is an improvement, but it's still a bit "hokey" that cutting power finally OPENS some sort of defensive door. Rather, either a mechanic to simulate a hack, ie. must do a CAP mechanic at that point would make this better and mix the mechanics of the different game modes we have had to date in a needed way.

So to recap that, introducing the cap mechanic may actually help make these things play out better and more realistically. The zerg rush works still for SOME aspects of the attack or defense, but the actual need to both destroy generators AND control territory long enough to "capture"/accumulate unlock progress means that zerg alone will not end a match.

Edited by Mad Porthos, 18 December 2014 - 07:14 AM.


#52 Sandpit

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Posted 18 December 2014 - 07:45 PM

View PostMischiefSC, on 17 December 2014 - 07:21 PM, said:


I had a match the other day where we scouted the enemy zerg rush before they even finished assembling and crushed them before they even got to the gate. Confined valley approach, arty, LRMs, streaks and a gate that turned into a PPC+AC firing line. It was a turkey shoot.

Playing aggressive on defense makes all the difference.

playing as a team and using scouts, setting up firing lanes, etc. does too ;)

#53 Saint Scarlett Johan

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Posted 19 December 2014 - 03:34 AM

Posted Image


He's coming to get you at 150kph.



Joking aside, the Zerg rush isn't unbeatable. With the new mechanic it's far less effective, but still viable. My unit saves the zerg rush for last after we've ground the enemy down with our other mechs because playing my AWS-9M and CTF-3D and getting 8-9 kills with those mechs is super satisfying and fun (and there's also the payout).

Hell, my favorite is the CnC Mammoth Tank rush where we pushed into them with 10 assaults and two lights with our slowest mech being a DDC with a STD 350. Talk about a surprise coming through that gate.





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