20 replies to this topic

[SataSata]

I'm new to this game and I got a Spider 5D and my playstyle is spotting and scouting for enemies. I usually drop with 2 MLAS 1 Flamer and a Tag. However I feel like I'm not contributing much to the team, sometimes I would distract an enemy by running up behind him and spam my laser and flame at him and when he turn over I'll jumpjet over him and run away. But I'm annoyed by the amount of damage I can do which is usually less than 20 per game. The Spider 5D has too little weapon hardpoints and I think the only good thing about it is ECM and powerful jumpjets. Currently I'm thinking of selling the Spider 5D and changing to either a Firestarter or a Jenner which I believe can do the same job but with more firepower. But I really want to commit and like the Spider, so can somebody tell me whats the perks or interesting playstyle of a spider which the other light mechs can't fulfill?

[Latorque]

It's not an energy monster akin to the Firestarter; but loaded with 3 MPLas you can do some serious skirmishing and tie the enemy down to no end; the only thing you really have to fear are well placed gauss rounds.

Start off the match with scouting, once the enemy ist found try to draw his fire or lead him to chase after you, then retreat back to your lines when it get's to hot. I mostly make the mistake of keeping up running into enemy groups during the heaviest brawls in the middle of the match; sooner or later even a Hitreg-blessed Spider falls to this. As soon as the fight breaks down into smaller duels, jump in and support your heavies / assaults by melting off the rear CT of a juicy king crab, your lasers do tremendous damage if the enemy doesn't move.

In comparison, i can't see a weakness in the Firestarter, there are far more hardpoints (but also harder heat management), the Jenner is great, but much too fragile when facing the current apocalypse-alphas.

[Tahribator]

It's not the best starter 'Mech.

Perky stuff

• Psychological Warfare: Small, narrow, fast and it flies high too. This 'Mech is the ultimate psychological warfare weapon in capable hands. For example, at the round start you can go for the enemy assaults slowly lumbering to join their team and keep them pinned. Most of them will struggle to even land shots on you (and will continue to forums to make a thread on how broken Spider hitboxes are), but the thing is even if you can't kill them you're essentially removing a significant chunk of firepower from the enemy frontlines. As long as you can keep enemies' valuable 'Mechs distracted by small pecks here and there, you're helping your team win the fight. Hilariously, sometimes a big chunk of enemy 'Mechs will break off from the frontlines to chase your tiny Spider, which is pretty much an autowin for your team. If you feel like things are going south, you always have boatloads of JJs to make your escape.
  
• Assasin: A Spider is notoriously hard to kill and this makes them great assasin during stand-offs or full-blown brawls. You can wander inside an enemy group and take out that red ST Jager quickly, and get out without much damage.

Not so perky stuff

• Firepower: As you noticed, the Spider's firepower is absymal. It takes a lot of time to kill fresh 'Mechs, so you're very dependent on your team to hurt enemy 'Mechs. You can solo enemy 'Mechs, but they either need to be terrible players, have terrible builds or just have a very slow 'Mech. The Anansi can actually solo fresh 'Mechs though.
  
• The leggening: Due to excessive JJ usage, the Spider takes a lot of leg damage and your enemies will actively try to leg you because your torso tanks so well. It really sucks.

Most of these stuff requires a very good knowledge of the enemy 'Mechs, weapons, the ability quickly assess enemy builds and player skills. That's why I said this isn't the best starter 'Mech. If you want to get in a Light and wreck faces immediately, go for a Jenner and Firestarter but bear in mind they also require a significant amount of experience to do well, but the Spider stands near the end of the spectrum.

Edited by Tahribator, 19 December 2014 - 04:48 AM.

[Aiden Skye]

Spider 5d. 1er-ppc + 2 med lasers. 1 jumpjet Xl245-255 depending on armor. Harass and poke the enemy big hitters all. Day. Long.

[Rogue Jedi]

this is my favorate SDR-5D build, not cheep but generaly good for about 200 damage + scouting or team protection.
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...a7ed71b42351750

I also own a second 5D with 3 MPL, but the ERLL+2ML build seems more effectave unless the whole team is going brawler in a large group drop, if the enemy are targeting you the Spider will go down fast so avoid being seen if possible, do not be afraid to disengage if you are being shot at and do not stop moving (including never running in a straight line for more than 3 seconds.
if I stand still for 5 seconds I usualy take a dual gauss shot to the rear and die instantly.

however my favorate Spider is the SDR-5K(C)
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...deabf0f62d3c8f2
if you are in the correct mindset that is an extremely effectave Mech, roughly equal to my FS9-E Ember in terms of per match KDR and damage scores (even before the quirks), only my Timber Wolves have significantly better per match scores.

the most effective "weapon" I carry on any light is a UAV, sneek up on the enemy team and place a UAV up where they are unlikely to notice it, typing "8 enemy in d6" is helpfull but nothing compaired to your whole team seeing 8 enemy contacts show up on there radar, then your LRM boats opening up on them while the rest of the team moves to attack

[3xnihilo]

[...a whole bunch of great wisdom and insight on piloting spiders...all eaten by my iPhone...]

Listen to Rogue Jedi that is good advice. Also, the 5d is an excellent scout/spotter but these roles don't often deal a to. Of damage so don't use damage as the metric by which you judge your rounds. Look at spotting assists/uav assists and those kind of things. Welcome to MWO and to spider piloting! O7 Mechwarrior!

[Mergatroid Skittle]

SataSata, on 19 December 2014 - 01:48 AM, said:

so can somebody tell me whats the perks or interesting playstyle of a spider which the other light mechs can't fulfill?

Sorry, this is going to be long, but I hope you will glean some useful info.

First of all, I love the Spider 5D. It is one of my favorite lights to use. One thing I've noticed about myself while playing the 5D is that it requires a completely unique playstyle to be effective. I can't play my Firestarters or Commandos the same way I play the 5D. Here are some things I've noticed about the 5D that make it unique followed by a quick list of tips.



1) ECM, jump jet, combo: This is the only light mech with JJs and ECM. After piloting other lights, I can say that this is a highly underrated combination of features. This allows the greatest freedom of movement, which is important when scouting or trying to sneak around. While you can scout and sneak around in the other ECM lights, the Spider can scout from unexpected positions and get out of tough situations with ease. JJs not only allow you to jump over obstacles, mechs etc. they also allow you to take shots from unexpected places/angles (think about an enemy mech trying to hit once you peak out from behind a ridge, but instead you come JJ'ing out at an odd angle. Good luck hitting a JJ'ing Spider that is 500+ yards away with a PPC, or any ballistic. But if you were in a Raven 3L, Com 2D or Locust PB, it would be a lot easier for that same enemy to hit you once you expose yourself for a shot. Finally, JJ's allow you to make sharper turns. By doing mini jumps, you can "corner" a lot better than lights that do not have JJs. This also helps with escaping, circling big slow mechs, changing directions, etc. I think there is a guide on this type of maneuver somewhere in the forums.

2) Hit boxes: Your hit boxes allow you to spread damage better than any other mech in the game (without even having to twist your torso). Enemy players always complain about Spider hit boxes and complain that they are broken. The fact is, Spider hit boxes are oddly shaped. The Left and Right torso hit boxes are not the shape you would expect, and the CT is very slender. Overall, you have some thin vertical hit boxes which make it difficult to do accurate pinpoint damage on (imagine trying to shoot an arrow at a broomstick compared to a pumpkin). Add weapon convergence issues, server side hit registration and you have a lot of complaints about "broken hit boxes" If you haven't seen it already, look at the Hitbox localization post by Tamerlin to understand your hitboxes. This is one of the most useful resources on the forums imho http://mwomercs.com/...x-localization/

Those are the competitive advantages for the Spider 5D compared to other lights. Here are some tips:

1) Lose the Tag and Flamer. If you bring a Tag and you don't have LRM boats on your team, you just wasted 1 ton that could have been a Medium laser, double heat sink, or 2 JJs. The Tag will also give away your position, which is the exact opposite of what you want to be doing in a 5D. The flamer is worthless, it is severely limiting your potential.

2) Equip weapons that suit your play style.

If you plan on doing lots of scouting, flanking, feinting, or drawing, I would equip at least 1 weapon with decent range. Either an ERLL, ERPPC, or LL. I prefer the ERLL because you are almost guaranteed to cause damage when you fire it compared to a ERPPC. This gives you the ability to deal damage at a range where most people will have difficulty hitting you, or dealing max damage with their weapons.

If you prefer to stay among the pack and help out with the middle of the main battle, I would recommend 3 MPLs. This build (or some close variation of it) is your best bet for dealing as much damage as possible in a short amount of time so you can get out of there.

3) Use your shield arm (left arm) whenever possible by torso twisting

4) Avoid traveling directly towards a mech that is looking your direction. If you can't avoid this, your goal should be to travel perpendicular to the direction that the enemy is looking at you so that you are difficult to hit.

5) Avoid fighting other lights. You don't have the weaponry to efficiently kill other lights. Sure you can fight them and possibly win, but you will be hurt and will have to play timidly the rest of the match.

6) Never fire from the same position twice.

7) Never stand still unless you are certain no one is aiming at you.

8) Create confusion and distract your enemies by using hit and run and flanking tactics whenever possible. Here are some things that I try to do when on the flank of the main force: a) Draw the attention of their Assaults. If you can get an assault to face you or even walk your direction, then you have one assault that is not shooting your team. Attack, retreat, repeat. You will notice that if you attack on a flank, someone will usually come chase you. Sometimes it is a feint. Learn to recognize that feint and attack once they return to the main force. c) Attack from different spots. This can create the illusion of multiple mechs attacking from one area of the map.

9) Know your escape route. Don't just have an escape route at all times. Know your routes, obstacles, how far your buddies are etc.

10) Don't venture too far from your buddies unless you are very experienced and know the map extremely well. A good rule of thumb for a beginner is; don't be more than 1 map grid square away from friendlies.

11) Learn to feel the "flow" of the battlefield. You should constantly be asking yourself questions like: Am I in a dangerous position? (if so, then move). Am I dealing damage to the opposing team? (if not, then you should at least be drawing enemies towards you or communicating intel). Is my team gaining an advantage? (if so, get more aggressive about killing, in order to seal the deal)

12) Locate weak spots on mechs and develop a priority of targets in your head. Priorities would include things like critical areas (i.e. parts of the mech with no armor), legs on fast light mechs (except maybe the jenner, which should be the CT), parts with many (or crucial) hardpoints (think right arm on Centurions and Victors, Hunches on a hunchback, right arms on a Kit Fox, LRM pods on catapults, Gauss rifles, etc.) If you can pinpoint these areas, your damage is more effective.

13) Learn how to "solo" kill enemy mechs. This means that you will have to take chances at some point to find out how good you are at utilizing your speed and JJs. It will come with time, but eventually you should be able to kill any assault 1 on 1. So if you find straggling assaults you can take them out. That is probably the most devastating thing you can do in a light.

Sorry that was really long, a lot longer than I was expecting... Enjoy your 5D, it is a really fun mech to pilot.

Edited by Mergatroid Skittle, 19 December 2014 - 08:55 PM.

[SataSata]

Thank you all for providing so much info, I think I have a decent understanding of the Spider 5D now. But I still got some questions like how many jumpjets is preferred, which XL engine I should get and should I leave the left arm with 0 armor?

[Mergatroid Skittle]

SataSata, on 19 December 2014 - 11:30 PM, said:

Thank you all for providing so much info, I think I have a decent understanding of the Spider 5D now. But I still got some questions like how many jumpjets is preferred, which XL engine I should get and should I leave the left arm with 0 armor?

1 JJ is enough for the 5D. For the engine, I prefer an XL255 because speed is one of your most important weapons. I would put the left arm armor at 5 and the head armor at 2. This give you half a ton for a JJ. Here are some of the builds I mess around with. I use the first one about 95% of the time. The 3 MPL is pretty fun for just running around causing mayhem. The last 2 run a little too hot for me.


ERLL, 2ML - SDR-5D

3 MPL - SDR-5D

ERPPC, 2ML - SDR-5D

2xERLL - SDR-5D

Edited by Mergatroid Skittle, 20 December 2014 - 05:44 AM.

[3xnihilo]

If you run the erppc spider with 2sl instead of mediums you can add an extra dhs for better heat management. Or a couple jj's since the sl are already more heat efficient on their own. That is how I run mine with the erppc, but I have mostly been going 3mpl lately. I am probably going to switch it to the erll, 2 ml though for awhile because I think that is the build I will want for cw (still trying to collect enough mechs to reach 140 haha, I have the opposite problem of everyone else - not enough weight)

[Ovion]

How are you fitting 2ML, a Flamer and a TAG, on a mech with 3E hardpoints? O-o

My personaly build is along the lines of:
SDR-5D
This is immensely fun, with the ability to kick at long range and in close, as well as incredible speed and mobility.

[3xnihilo]

Ooh, I never though about spl's on the 5d. Interesting.

[Dagada Moor]

Ovion,
I like the small pulses also will be trying that tonight. Thank you.

[Ovion]

np.

An alternate build that's pretty solid is 3MPL.
You sacrifice the range of the ERLL, but gain a fast solid punch in close, which coupled with your speed isn't so bad.

Though ultimately I find prefer the ERLL for it, as you are viable at most ranges, from hitandrun, to brawlish, to scoutsniper.

[PACoFist]

Mergatroid Skittle, on 20 December 2014 - 05:36 AM, said:

2xERLL - SDR-5D

This last build is not possible. It has only 9 heatsinks, you need at least ten. If you forego jumpjets and add another heatsinks you can fit the 2 ERLL.


If you are new to the game I would not recommend the 3 Medium Pulse Laser Spider. It is a good build but it is a short-range build and not very beginner-friendly. Better get some ERLL, or a PPC, if your aim is good, and play sniper.

On small maps you should maybe stick to your team and provide ECM, to protect your team from missiles. On bigger maps I would leave the rest of the team, and try to get behind the enemy. Behind the enemy you are in the perfect position, to lock targets for your LRM-mechs and shoot them in the back. If you are spotted change your position or run back to your team.

Try to be as annoying as possible.

[Ovion]

For a beginner, ERLL + 2ML is probably the best start point.

[N a p e s]

What about the SDR-5V, does anyone have any recent experience with that variant?

I know it's been called one of the most useless mechs in the game with only 2 CT mounted energy hardpoints, but what's the consensus since quirks?

Quirks on the SDR-5V:
25% MPLas cooldown
25% MPLas heat gen
25% MPLas range
25% MPLas laser duration

Sure it's not beating any records for alpha potential (actually might be "winning" the worst alpha category) but those lasers are gonna cycle quick (1.74 seconds) and the beam duration is gonna be the shortest in the game at 0.45 seconds. And that's in a tiny super hard to hit mech that can run around at 169 kph...

Edited by Napes339, 26 January 2015 - 11:53 AM.

[Latorque]

Still blessed in the hitbox department while being considerably smaller than the FS. Go for the 3 MPLas - build. It may not look like much; but the spider still has one massive advantage: for lots of players it was the bane of their existence for over a year. On the few occasions i spot one nowadays; i still can barely discipline myself not to ignore everything else and kill the foremost danger to my team at any cost.

It's kind of a reverse Pavlov conditioning: see a SDR,put ALL your firepower that way. Piloting it; you can annoy the enemy team to no end; and if you're able to get a feeling for the matches you've still got unmatched mobility for melting down RTs. 3MPlas are actually not bad for this. Oh, and ECM is still a nice bonus.

[N a p e s]

Got home and realized the SDR-5V was on-sale for c-bills so I picked it up and partially kitted it out. I won't be breaking any records for damage but its gonna be super fun to fly around in this thing. 150 kph before speed tweak and already ultra agile!

[3xnihilo]

I sold my 5v to make room for commandos selling mechs is always a bad idea.