257 replies to this topic

[Averen]

Gas Guzzler, on 19 December 2014 - 02:36 PM, said:

We are in beta.

Ofc, that's why now is the time to bring up the issue. Is there a fully satisfying to solve it? No clue, but it's worth to bring up the issue.

Which makes it pretty weird how many people here are trying to defend the status quo. It doesn't bother you? That's cool, but then it doesn't have anything to do with you.

Rhazien, on 19 December 2014 - 02:38 PM, said:

I apologize, yes, I meant as a two man drop. I realize in hindsight, this is not the "solo" queue. However, folks are not ONLY saying they have this problem as single PUGS, they also are mentioning in small groups. That was my intention.

I see, that's also my fault. 'Queing solo' and a 'solo only queue' can both go as a 'solo queue'.

pwnface, on 19 December 2014 - 02:40 PM, said:

In case you didn't notice, there isn't a matchmaking system for CW.

That's what the thread is about in the first place. Took you long enough to figure it out.

Edited by Averen, 19 December 2014 - 02:46 PM.

[Master Pain]

Burakumin1979, on 19 December 2014 - 02:36 PM, said:

Voice comms for pugs? No thank you. Have you read the half-********, mouth-breathing, **** leakage coming out of these basement dwelling lowlifes just in chat?

Give a bullhorn to that?

In a unit, you can dispose of the trash (and I mean that as a complete insult of them as an actual person).

My ears are bleeding just thinking about it....

Or they could add voip like every other multiplayer game has and include a MUTE function.......

[oldradagast]

GroovYChickeN, on 19 December 2014 - 02:38 PM, said:

ugh. What is with people?

Both sides (solo/small group vs 12man) need to be able to enjoy CW. The whole CW is "hard" mode or what bullshit you like to spout does nothing but damage the possibility of this game continuing to succeed. CW will not work without everyone being able to participate and enjoy it at the same time.

Good points - points that certain people cannot understand since they're too busy in epeen comparison contests.

No matter how good somebody is at this game, the reality is that very, VERY few people actually care... but everyone involved cares - or at least SHOULD care - about the overall experience being fun for as many people in the game as possible... otherwise, we won't have a game in the long run. MWO is not one of those huge titles that can afford to make costly, careless errors and alienate large chunks of the population.

Sure, CW is "win at all costs" - but can anyone tell me with a straight face that ROFL-stomping PUG "team" in CW makes any sense? Is it fun? Does it demonstrate "skill?" I think most people would understand that's the actual problem here.

Edited by oldradagast, 19 December 2014 - 02:45 PM.

[Gas Guzzler]

Rhazien, on 19 December 2014 - 02:23 PM, said:

I call BS on this particular part of your post. To say there are no groups in solo queue is a bold faced lie. I faced a 12 man last night. Concise points otherwise, but this comment, how did you say it? "is like shooting yourself in the foot".

Pics or it didn't happen. I call BS right back at you.

[Darth Futuza]

Thorn Hallis, on 19 December 2014 - 02:37 PM, said:

Good job people for making PGI rush CW. Now we have all the fun little things like spawn camping, buggy maps, exploitable objects and such. Good times.

HA! You think internal testing would ever find all this stuff? I say get the crap out in the open for us to test ASAP so they can fix it sooner. Internal software testing never finds all the bugs and more importantly never actually gives you feedback about what teh players really want.

Master Pain, on 19 December 2014 - 02:42 PM, said:

Or they could add voip like every other multiplayer game has and include a MUTE function.......

And isolate everyone in their own little mute corners so that they are just like before? And why exactly do you think giving the casuals voip is so important when they could just join a unit and use teamspeak?

[GeistHrafn]

Gas Guzzler, on 19 December 2014 - 02:42 PM, said:

Pics or it didn't happen. I call BS right back at you.

Yep. See posted correction.

[GroovYChickeN]

Squally160, on 19 December 2014 - 02:40 PM, said:

The whole point of CW though is.... to fight, by any means necessary, to conquer/defend planets. splitting the ques removes that entirely. no longer is it an actual battle, its a series of games that means nothing if your "other side of the q" isnt doing their part.

As it is now? it promotes people working together, forming groups, running politics, assisting players, and generally BEING A COMMUNITY to move forward.

Im sorry, but if youre being stomped because the other side has big premades, your best choice is to match them in firepower, by building a big premade.

I will agree that queue's shouldn't be split. However, that doesn't mean that nothing should be done. As has been pointed out VOIP/comm rose/faction chat/ect.. are all thing that need to happen ON TOP OF making sure that maps/modes are balanced from both the 12man view point and PUG at the same time.

Far too many people on the forms respond with "CW is HardMode" and "L2P Nub" herpy-derpy bs that does nothing but hurt this game. Stop it already. PUGs have to be considered when designing/balancing CW.

[Gas Guzzler]

Averen, on 19 December 2014 - 02:42 PM, said:

Ofc, that's why now is the time to bring up the issue. Is there a fully satisfying to solve it? No clue, but it's worth to bring up the issue.

Which makes it pretty weird how many people here are trying to defend the status quo. It doesn't bother you? That's cool, but then it doesn't have anything to do with you.

Well implementing matchmaking that doesn't match solos with groups brings up the issue of server populations and finding matches in CW, because it is already very difficult to find a match at times. Not queuing groups with solo players would make this much worse.

House Kurita has a TS server for any Kuritan players to join so when they drop in a group with other players they can talk to each other (even if they are solo). That's all it takes to bring communication to solo dropping and is much easier then PGI implementing a matchmaker similar to the non-CW MWO that we have now. Not only would it be semi-effective at best, but we would all be doing a lot more waiting and drops with no opponents.

[pwnface]

Averen, on 19 December 2014 - 02:42 PM, said:

That's what the thread is about in the first place. Took you long enough to figure it out.

I guess the point you are missing is that a lot of us don't want a matchmaker in CW because they only way to do so would be to stop allowing players to choose what planet they are fighting on. There simply isn't another way to do it. Removing player control of what planets they want to attack/defend defeats the entire point of CW.

Do you have a solution for adding a matchmaker without removing control of attack/defend choices?

Edited by pwnface, 19 December 2014 - 02:50 PM.

[Darth Futuza]

Gas Guzzler, on 19 December 2014 - 02:48 PM, said:

House Kurita has a TS server for any Kuritan players to join so when they drop in a group with other players they can talk to each other (even if they are solo). That's all it takes to bring communication to solo dropping and is much easier then PGI implementing a matchmaker similar to the non-CW MWO that we have now. Not only would it be semi-effective at best, but we would all be doing a lot more waiting and drops with no opponents.

Most Houses are doing this, it provides the clans with valuable spy information. We thank you. >=D

I joke (mostly), but indeed PUGS can definitely use voip even if they aren't in a unit. Plus they tend to be more polite because they are a guest on someone elses TS.

[Averen]

Gas Guzzler, on 19 December 2014 - 02:48 PM, said:

Well implementing matchmaking that doesn't match solos with groups brings up the issue of server populations and finding matches in CW, because it is already very difficult to find a match at times. Not queuing groups with solo players would make this much worse.

House Kurita has a TS server for any Kuritan players to join so when they drop in a group with other players they can talk to each other (even if they are solo). That's all it takes to bring communication to solo dropping and is much easier then PGI implementing a matchmaker similar to the non-CW MWO that we have now. Not only would it be semi-effective at best, but we would all be doing a lot more waiting and drops with no opponents.

Maybe just a bit of grouping-priorisation would already help? Meaning a premade has a higher chance of being set up against another premade, and pugs against pugs. I similarly think a full split wouldn't work out.

Or some way to actually set up 12v12 matches might already help.

[CyclonerM]

Just leaving this..

Community Warfare..

[pwnface]

Darth Futuza, on 19 December 2014 - 02:51 PM, said:

Most Houses are doing this, it provides the clans with valuable spy information. We thank you. >=D

I joke (mostly), but indeed PUGS can definitely use voip even if they aren't in a unit. Plus they tend to be more polite because they are a guest on someone elses TS.

Getting 12 pugs in teamspeak together isn't going to guarantee victory, but it certainly gives them a much better fighting chance to succeed.

[Squally160]

GroovYChickeN, on 19 December 2014 - 02:47 PM, said:

I will agree that queue's shouldn't be split. However, that doesn't mean that nothing should be done. As has been pointed out VOIP/comm rose/faction chat/ect.. are all thing that need to happen ON TOP OF making sure that maps/modes are balanced from both the 12man view point and PUG at the same time.

Far too many people on the forms respond with "CW is HardMode" and "L2P Nub" herpy-derpy bs that does nothing but hurt this game. Stop it already. PUGs have to be considered when designing/balancing CW.

How do you balance a map for unorganized pugs, and 12 mans?

Are there giant flashy lights on the ground and big arrows that point pugs to where to go?

And no, I do not thing pugs need to be considered when designing CW. For the past two years, this game has revolved around pugs. We finally get a system in place that is built around playing as the best team possible to put results, up on a map.

I am sorry, but if you want to come play in CW, i suggest you put on your big boy panties and be ready for the ride. This isnt a casual mode.

[Averen]

pwnface, on 19 December 2014 - 02:49 PM, said:

Do you have a solution for adding a matchmaker without removing control of attack/defend choices?

Nope, not a full solution, and I also agree that splitting the CW would be bad. But atm CW is in Beta, so now is the time to voice issues, even if we have no solutions.

That doesn't make it less of a problem. Tbh, I'm not sure what you are trying to achieve here.

Squally160, on 19 December 2014 - 02:54 PM, said:

This isnt a casual mode.

It is for the 12 man premade fighting pugs.

Edited by Averen, 19 December 2014 - 02:58 PM.

[Squally160]

Averen, on 19 December 2014 - 02:56 PM, said:

Nope, not a full solution, and I also agree that splitting the CW would be bad. But atm CW is in Beta, so now is the time to voice issues, even if we have no solutions.

That doesn't make it less of a problem. Tbh, I'm not sure what you are trying to achieve here.

The problem is already fixed and incoming. Faction groups. Want to play in CW? join an open faction group, get on comms. BAM. youre not a pug anymore.

(and by open faction groups I mean the ability for all jade falcons to group together, rather than just unit based groups)

[pwnface]

Averen, on 19 December 2014 - 02:51 PM, said:

Maybe just a bit of grouping-priorisation would already help? Meaning a premade has a higher chance of being set up against another premade, and pugs against pugs. I similarly think a full split wouldn't work out.

Or some way to actually set up 12v12 matches might already help.

What happens when there is only a 12man group attacking a planet and a group of pugs defending it? Does the matchmaker just not match them against each other? If planets had 200 people queued up on each side to contest it, then MAYBE some type of grouping prioritization could happen but the game population currently can't support it.

Even if group prioritization could somehow work, I don't think it is worthwhile to create a matchmaker that would only once in a while save pugs from fighting a 12 man group. I don't think pug players will cry any less loudly when they do get matched up against 12 mans.

Edited by pwnface, 19 December 2014 - 03:01 PM.

[Averen]

pwnface, on 19 December 2014 - 03:00 PM, said:

What happens when there is only a 12man group attacking a planet and a group of pugs defending it? Does the matchmaker just not match them against each other? If planets had 200 people queued up on each side to contest it, then MAYBE some type of grouping prioritization could happen but the game population currently can't support it. Even if group prioritization could somehow work, I don't think it is worthwhile to create a matchmaker that would only once in a while save pugs from fighting a 12 man group.

If this is going to continue, than the playerbase will just shrink even more. Pug-players will just stop, because nobody wants to run into the danger of just wasting 30 to 60 minutes on a game without any fun.

[oldradagast]

Squally160, on 19 December 2014 - 02:54 PM, said:

How do you balance a map for unorganized pugs, and 12 mans?

Are there giant flashy lights on the ground and big arrows that point pugs to where to go?

And no, I do not thing pugs need to be considered when designing CW. For the past two years, this game has revolved around pugs. We finally get a system in place that is built around playing as the best team possible to put results, up on a map.

I am sorry, but if you want to come play in CW, i suggest you put on your big boy panties and be ready for the ride. This isnt a casual mode.

I would agree... except PUG's are still a big part of the game and always will be... and CW is supposed to be a big part of the game.

Some effort should be taken to ensure that the majority of players can at least have SOME fun in the game format that is supposedly a "design pillar."

Again, this is not about: nerfing teamwork, nerfing clans, or anything. Ideally, I'd want ALL players to be able to play at a higher level, communicate, work as a team, etc. The tools exist... sort of... though they could be better, but so many players don't even know about them.

Very few people WANT to be "bads" - but the sheer number of them still out there, as rude as that may be to say - at least indicates to me that they have no clue where to go or what to do to get better... not that they LIKE getting slaughtered game after game. And that's the problem we need to address, IMHO.

[Tidy]

Wonder if it would be bad thing to match 12 man with only 12 man?
Common no one wants to be steam rolled or do the rolling in this game but every one wants to have access to all of the content.