20517 replies to this topic

[Odanan]

Strum Wealh, on 06 April 2015 - 10:01 AM, said:

Frankly, it should be the other way around - the IS ACs should be changed into burst-fire weapons!

EVERY canonical description describes Standard ACs as burst-fire weapons (even each of the massive 185mm AC/20s of the Demolisher tank need to fire 4 shells to do a total of 20 units of damage), and the BT gameplay rules (specifically, the expanded/advanced rules found in TacOps) make clear that they (along with LB-X ACs in "slug mode", Light ACs, and Hyper-Velocity ACs) fire in bursts that can be walked across multiple targets.
(The TacOps rules indicate that LB-X ACs in "cluster mode" fire a single shotshell that can strike a second target with any submunitions that miss the first.)

The only ambiguous cases - the only cases that could allow for single-solid-shell-salvo ACs - are with the UACs and RACs (e.g. the weapons that could fire multiple "units of ammo" in a single TT turn, but could not walk the salvo from a single "unit of ammo" across multiple targets).
And, even then, it could be argued that they are simply firing more compressed bursts (e.g. firing a similar number of shells per burst as their Standard counterparts, with the burst duration of UACs and RACs being substantially shorter and the double/quadruple/sextuple ROF settings of those weapons representing a shortening of the time between the end of one burst and the beginning of the next).

That would be more lore accurate. Still, I think it would be easier (in terms of QQ) for PGI to make the Clan ACs better than make the IS ACs worst... Anyway, if you look at the MWO's UACs, the are multi-barreled, something more akin to shooting bursts...

[Strum Wealh]

Metus regem, on 06 April 2015 - 10:22 AM, said:

I know.... I know....

But there is lore precedent for a single shell cUAC, the Ebon Jaguar Alt. A, mounted a 203mm single shell UAC.

Caliber alone doesn't make for much of an argument; the 185mm (7.2 inch) AC/20s of the Demolisher needs 4 shells to deal 20 damage, and a 203mm shell (8 inch) shell isn't that much bigger.

However, there are a number of canonical passages that support UACs being burst-fire weapons:

"The second Summoner in Marthe's Star targeted the Quickdraw. The heavy ultra-autocannon fired two volleys. One drilled through the armor on the Quickdraw's right flank. A silvery explosion heralded the death of a jump jet, while a splash of green smoke indicated a heat sink had been destroyed. The other blast of shells ripped all the armor from the 'Mech's right arm and all but severed it." - Prince of Havoc, ch. 11

"Unimpressed, the Sentinel unleashed its ultra-autocannon, sending a storm of shells ripping into Feehan's right torso." - Call of Duty, ch. 25

"Poised to his left was a Cauldron-Born. This heavier OmniMech was of more concern. His sensors told him it was a Class A configuration, mounting a deadly Ultra Auto-cannon and two large lasers outfitted for extended range."
"The first two autocannon rounds whizzed past Trent's right side just past the cockpit. He began to twist the Timber Wolf's torso as the rest of the rounds began to slam into his right and center torso. The Ultra Autocannon was a deadly weapon system, and the Cauldron-Born pilot was obviously a skilled marksman. The shots shook and rattled the Timber Wolf as if it were caught in a hurricane. The whole 'Mech swayed under the shuddering impact of the rounds, and Trent listed forward, leaning into the incoming fire to keep the giant war machine from falling.
The stream of shells moved suddenly upward, one hitting the massive shoulder missile rack, the others then passing into the crater wall and some even higher." - Exodus Road, ch. 05

"Due to the heat buildup in his 'Mech, he held off for a full second before firing his Ultra autocannon, then sent a steady stream of shells into the guts of the Trebuchet. Each round exploded deeper and deeper into the heart of the battle machine, mangling internal structure and important subsystems." - By Blood Betrayed, ch. 15

"Petra focused on her opponent and thumbed the trigger. Monstrous shells the size of trash cans poured from her Stormcrow's left-arm autocannon into a Combine Centurion, battering its armor mercilessly and sending the machine staggering backward as its pilot struggled to keep it upright." - Test of Vengeance, ch. 12

So, we know with certainty that the Clan UAC/20 of the Thor C (the only config that carries a UAC of any type) and the IS UAC/5 of the Sentinel are burst-fire weapons.
The Clan UAC/20 of the Cauldron-Born A is described as firing a "stream of shells" which must consist of at least four individual shells (the first two that miss, and the remaining rounds - plural, indicating at least two - hitting the right-torso & center-torso of Trent's 'Mech) - though "stream of shells" generally implies a more substantial number.
Then again, eight 203mm shells from a double-burst of a UAC/20 (four shells per burst) would indeed represent a substantial amount of ordinance.

The interesting thing is Petra's Ryoken B, also mounting a Clan UAC/20 in the left arm and described as firing "monstrous shells the size of trash cans"... which sounds very impressive, until one realizes that they're talking about countertop-sized mini trash cans like this one (6 inches, or 152mm) or this one (8 inches, or 203mm).
More to the point, the shells from Petra's UAC/20 is described as "pouring" from the weapon, which implies a significant volume of fire (e.g. a substantial number of individual shells).

These passages, among others, would seem to support UACs as burst-fire weapons, with the Multiple Targets rule from TacOps supportion the idea that UACs fore compressed bursts of such short duration that they effectively cannot be walked across targets.

[WarHippy]

Strum Wealh, on 06 April 2015 - 01:03 PM, said:

Caliber alone doesn't make for much of an argument; the 185mm (7.2 inch) AC/20s of the Demolisher needs 4 shells to deal 20 damage, and a 203mm shell (8 inch) shell isn't that much bigger.

However, there are a number of canonical passages that support UACs being burst-fire weapons:

"The second Summoner in Marthe's Star targeted the Quickdraw. The heavy ultra-autocannon fired two volleys. One drilled through the armor on the Quickdraw's right flank. A silvery explosion heralded the death of a jump jet, while a splash of green smoke indicated a heat sink had been destroyed. The other blast of shells ripped all the armor from the 'Mech's right arm and all but severed it." - Prince of Havoc, ch. 11

"Unimpressed, the Sentinel unleashed its ultra-autocannon, sending a storm of shells ripping into Feehan's right torso." - Call of Duty, ch. 25

"Poised to his left was a Cauldron-Born. This heavier OmniMech was of more concern. His sensors told him it was a Class A configuration, mounting a deadly Ultra Auto-cannon and two large lasers outfitted for extended range."
"The first two autocannon rounds whizzed past Trent's right side just past the cockpit. He began to twist the Timber Wolf's torso as the rest of the rounds began to slam into his right and center torso. The Ultra Autocannon was a deadly weapon system, and the Cauldron-Born pilot was obviously a skilled marksman. The shots shook and rattled the Timber Wolf as if it were caught in a hurricane. The whole 'Mech swayed under the shuddering impact of the rounds, and Trent listed forward, leaning into the incoming fire to keep the giant war machine from falling.
The stream of shells moved suddenly upward, one hitting the massive shoulder missile rack, the others then passing into the crater wall and some even higher." - Exodus Road, ch. 05

"Due to the heat buildup in his 'Mech, he held off for a full second before firing his Ultra autocannon, then sent a steady stream of shells into the guts of the Trebuchet. Each round exploded deeper and deeper into the heart of the battle machine, mangling internal structure and important subsystems." - By Blood Betrayed, ch. 15

"Petra focused on her opponent and thumbed the trigger. Monstrous shells the size of trash cans poured from her Stormcrow's left-arm autocannon into a Combine Centurion, battering its armor mercilessly and sending the machine staggering backward as its pilot struggled to keep it upright." - Test of Vengeance, ch. 12

So, we know with certainty that the Clan UAC/20 of the Thor C (the only config that carries a UAC of any type) and the IS UAC/5 of the Sentinel are burst-fire weapons.
The Clan UAC/20 of the Cauldron-Born A is described as firing a "stream of shells" which must consist of at least four individual shells (the first two that miss, and the remaining rounds - plural, indicating at least two - hitting the right-torso & center-torso of Trent's 'Mech) - though "stream of shells" generally implies a more substantial number.
Then again, eight 203mm shells from a double-burst of a UAC/20 (four shells per burst) would indeed represent a substantial amount of ordinance.

The interesting thing is Petra's Ryoken B, also mounting a Clan UAC/20 in the left arm and described as firing "monstrous shells the size of trash cans"... which sounds very impressive, until one realizes that they're talking about countertop-sized mini trash cans like this one (6 inches, or 152mm) or this one (8 inches, or 203mm).
More to the point, the shells from Petra's UAC/20 is described as "pouring" from the weapon, which implies a significant volume of fire (e.g. a substantial number of individual shells).

These passages, among others, would seem to support UACs as burst-fire weapons, with the Multiple Targets rule from TacOps supportion the idea that UACs fore compressed bursts of such short duration that they effectively cannot be walked across targets.

All of those passages are literary fluff. They sound good and paint a pretty picture with words from the author, but shouldn't be used to determine function or balance.

[Odanan]

WarHippy, on 06 April 2015 - 01:11 PM, said:

All of those passages are literary fluff. They sound good and paint a pretty picture with words from the author, but shouldn't be used to determine function or balance.

Jesus, the guy presented a virtuoso mountain of fluff, a masterful collection of lore, and you answer with that?

[Metus regem]

Strum Wealh, on 06 April 2015 - 01:03 PM, said:

Caliber alone doesn't make for much of an argument; the 185mm (7.2 inch) AC/20s of the Demolisher needs 4 shells to deal 20 damage, and a 203mm shell (8 inch) shell isn't that much bigger.

However, there are a number of canonical passages that support UACs being burst-fire weapons:

"The second Summoner in Marthe's Star targeted the Quickdraw. The heavy ultra-autocannon fired two volleys. One drilled through the armor on the Quickdraw's right flank. A silvery explosion heralded the death of a jump jet, while a splash of green smoke indicated a heat sink had been destroyed. The other blast of shells ripped all the armor from the 'Mech's right arm and all but severed it." - Prince of Havoc, ch. 11

"Unimpressed, the Sentinel unleashed its ultra-autocannon, sending a storm of shells ripping into Feehan's right torso." - Call of Duty, ch. 25

"Poised to his left was a Cauldron-Born. This heavier OmniMech was of more concern. His sensors told him it was a Class A configuration, mounting a deadly Ultra Auto-cannon and two large lasers outfitted for extended range."
"The first two autocannon rounds whizzed past Trent's right side just past the cockpit. He began to twist the Timber Wolf's torso as the rest of the rounds began to slam into his right and center torso. The Ultra Autocannon was a deadly weapon system, and the Cauldron-Born pilot was obviously a skilled marksman. The shots shook and rattled the Timber Wolf as if it were caught in a hurricane. The whole 'Mech swayed under the shuddering impact of the rounds, and Trent listed forward, leaning into the incoming fire to keep the giant war machine from falling.
The stream of shells moved suddenly upward, one hitting the massive shoulder missile rack, the others then passing into the crater wall and some even higher." - Exodus Road, ch. 05

"Due to the heat buildup in his 'Mech, he held off for a full second before firing his Ultra autocannon, then sent a steady stream of shells into the guts of the Trebuchet. Each round exploded deeper and deeper into the heart of the battle machine, mangling internal structure and important subsystems." - By Blood Betrayed, ch. 15

"Petra focused on her opponent and thumbed the trigger. Monstrous shells the size of trash cans poured from her Stormcrow's left-arm autocannon into a Combine Centurion, battering its armor mercilessly and sending the machine staggering backward as its pilot struggled to keep it upright." - Test of Vengeance, ch. 12

So, we know with certainty that the Clan UAC/20 of the Thor C (the only config that carries a UAC of any type) and the IS UAC/5 of the Sentinel are burst-fire weapons.
The Clan UAC/20 of the Cauldron-Born A is described as firing a "stream of shells" which must consist of at least four individual shells (the first two that miss, and the remaining rounds - plural, indicating at least two - hitting the right-torso & center-torso of Trent's 'Mech) - though "stream of shells" generally implies a more substantial number.
Then again, eight 203mm shells from a double-burst of a UAC/20 (four shells per burst) would indeed represent a substantial amount of ordinance.

The interesting thing is Petra's Ryoken B, also mounting a Clan UAC/20 in the left arm and described as firing "monstrous shells the size of trash cans"... which sounds very impressive, until one realizes that they're talking about countertop-sized mini trash cans like this one (6 inches, or 152mm) or this one (8 inches, or 203mm).
More to the point, the shells from Petra's UAC/20 is described as "pouring" from the weapon, which implies a significant volume of fire (e.g. a substantial number of individual shells).

These passages, among others, would seem to support UACs as burst-fire weapons, with the Multiple Targets rule from TacOps supportion the idea that UACs fore compressed bursts of such short duration that they effectively cannot be walked across targets.

Not disagreeing with you, just pointing out, that there are some AC's (UAC/LB/AC) that are recorded as single shell, as there are a lot of factors that determine how a weapon could deal "20 points" worth of damage to a mech.

[WarHippy]

Odanan, on 06 April 2015 - 02:03 PM, said:

Jesus, the guy presented a virtuoso mountain of fluff, a masterful collection of lore, and you answer with that?

He copied and pasted a bunch of text am I supposed to be impressed or something? Even you are calling it fluff so why are you jumping down my throat for pointing out that it is what it is?

[Strum Wealh]

Metus regem, on 06 April 2015 - 02:06 PM, said:

Not disagreeing with you, just pointing out, that there are some AC's (UAC/LB/AC) that are recorded as single shell, as there are a lot of factors that determine how a weapon could deal "20 points" worth of damage to a mech.

Recorded where, though?

Every reference we have to an Ultra AC being fired indicates that it is firing multiple shells, with the majority of those explicitly describing the firing cycle as a "stream" or "burst" of multiple shells, while no known examples actually state that UACs (or any other AC type) fire single-shell-salvos.

I submit that there are no recorded confirmations of a single-solid-shell-per-salvo class-20 autocannon of any type.

[CDLord HHGD]

Strum Wealh, on 06 April 2015 - 03:36 PM, said:

Recorded where, though?

Every reference we have to an Ultra AC being fired indicates that it is firing multiple shells, with the majority of those explicitly describing the firing cycle as a "stream" or "burst" of multiple shells, while no known examples actually state that UACs (or any other AC type) fire single-shell-salvos.

I submit that there are no recorded confirmations of a single-solid-shell-per-salvo class-20 autocannon of any type.

Going back through all my novel memories, they always refer to AC/UAC as burst fire.... Something I have had to come to terms with and reconcile with my love of how they work in MWO.

EDIT: My first exposure to this (and the genre as a whole) was the novel The Price of Glory and Lori's Shadowhawk during the siege on GLengarry. Later with regards to the description of her borrowed Zeus during the siege on Heserperus II.

Edited by cdlord, 06 April 2015 - 04:06 PM.

[Strum Wealh]

WarHippy, on 06 April 2015 - 01:11 PM, said:

All of those passages are literary fluff. They sound good and paint a pretty picture with words from the author, but shouldn't be used to determine function or balance.

There are also gameplay rules in Tactical Operations (one of the current BT rulebooks) that back up that fluff.

• "Rather than firing at a single target, any type of autocannon can be 'walked' across two targets close to one another. An LB-X autocannon firing a cluster shot and Ultra and Rotary autocannons firing at multiple targets are a special case."
  
• "For an LB-X autocannon firing a cluster shot, make a single to-hit roll against the highest to-hit number plus 1. If all damage is applied to the first target after a roll on the Cluster Hit Table, then no additional damage is applied to the second target. However, if some of the damage missed the target, use that 'missed' Damage Value as the new number to roll on the Cluster Hit Table to determine what damage struck the second target."
  
• "For Ultra and Rotary autocannons, make a single to-hit roll against the highest to-hit number plus 1. Then determine whether the designated number of shots fired hit a target. If only one shot hit, it will strike one of the targets - determined at random — with a single shot that does full damage. If two, four or six shots hit, one, two or three shots will strike each target at full damage. If three or five shots hit, one or two shots will strike each target; randomly determine where the other shot lands."
  
• For all other AC instances, "determine the to-hit number for both targets and make separate to-hit rolls against each target, using the higher (more difficult) of the to-hit numbers and adding a +1 modifier for firing at multiple targets with a single shot"; "If the to-hit roll succeeds, the target is struck by a single hit that inflicts damage equal to half the normal damage done by the weapon (rounded down)."

Having all ACs (other than LB-X ACs in cluster mode) as burst-fire weapons is inline with the BT gameplay rules (as demonstrated above), the BT lore (as demonstrated in previous posts), and PGI's technical capabilities (as demonstrated in their implementation of the Clan ballistics).

It would also raise the skill floor with regard to ballistic weapons (especially with regard to concentrating damage against competent opponents - which would also help to address some of the TTK issues & concerns expressed in other threads), reduce the prevalence of the "PPFLD 'meta'" (as there would be fewer PPFLD weapons outside of the extremely-heavy Gauss Rifle & the extremely-hot PPC family), and provide additional avenues for modules and quirkening (specifically, modifications to shell-spacing and/or overall burst duration, and possibly even burst size - opening the possibility that quirk & module combinations could even be used to emulate the different makes & models within the AC classes).

[Cimarb]

As I have said before, and Strum has more than adequately proven through examples, Autocannons are burst-fire weapons.

If you are going to dispute that, at least back it up with some examples supporting your claim. Otherwise, go troll elsewhere.

[Metus regem]

Cimarb, on 06 April 2015 - 06:13 PM, said:

As I have said before, and Strum has more than adequately proven through examples, Autocannons are burst-fire weapons.

If you are going to dispute that, at least back it up with some examples supporting your claim. Otherwise, go troll elsewhere.

I can't remember where I read it, but the 203mm in the Ebon Jaguar A, sticks out in my mind of one of the few single shot AC's in universe. And I wish I had the time to go and dig it up. But if I'm wrong, than I am wrong. And I have said, several times, that I agree with him, they should act, both clan and IS, like they do in lore.

[Strum Wealh]

Metus regem, on 06 April 2015 - 07:39 PM, said:

I can't remember where I read it, but the 203mm in the Ebon Jaguar A, sticks out in my mind of one of the few single shot AC's in universe. And I wish I had the time to go and dig it up. But if I'm wrong, than I am wrong. And I have said, several times, that I agree with him, they should act, both clan and IS, like they do in lore.

I'm guessing that Cimarb was referring to WarHippy, rather than yourself...?

[Metus regem]

Strum Wealh, on 06 April 2015 - 11:00 PM, said:

I'm guessing that Cimarb was referring to WarHippy, rather than yourself...?

Not sure, as it wasn't directed....

[CDLord HHGD]

This can all be resolved for MWO by adding in different AC/weapon manufacturers. The Luxor is burst fire while the Pontiac is a single slug.

There could be so much more flavor and lore friendly options IMHO....

[Metus regem]

cdlord, on 07 April 2015 - 07:13 AM, said:

This can all be resolved for MWO by adding in different AC/weapon manufacturers. The Luxor is burst fire while the Pontiac is a single slug.

There could be so much more flavor and lore friendly options IMHO....

They could do the same with PPC's like Donnal's and Lord's Light....

-sigh- I can see where this game could go, but I wonder if the DEV team can see it too, or if they are too busy looking at it like CoD with mechs?

[CDLord HHGD]

Metus regem, on 07 April 2015 - 07:16 AM, said:

They could do the same with PPC's like Donnal's and Lord's Light....

-sigh- I can see where this game could go, but I wonder if the DEV team can see it too, or if they are too busy looking at it like CoD with mechs?

Indeed, there would ideally be different manufacturers for all the weapons in MWO. We could have it all, so many options that are lore friendly... And the pricing of those weapons can be dynamic based on your faction's preferences.... This is such a deep universe and as much as I love MWO, one could get into Star Citizen levels of detail and still leave a lot out.

[Spheroid]

The fluff for the Enforcer and Hunchback both use the term "rounds" which is not compatible with the bursting mechanic some desire.

The Enforcer shell count is very specific and unambigious. Stream of bullets or hail of gunfire are completely subjective however.

Edited by Spheroid, 07 April 2015 - 07:56 AM.

[WarHippy]

Strum Wealh, on 06 April 2015 - 04:03 PM, said:

There are also gameplay rules in Tactical Operations (one of the current BT rulebooks) that back up that fluff.

• "Rather than firing at a single target, any type of autocannon can be 'walked' across two targets close to one another. An LB-X autocannon firing a cluster shot and Ultra and Rotary autocannons firing at multiple targets are a special case."
  
• "For an LB-X autocannon firing a cluster shot, make a single to-hit roll against the highest to-hit number plus 1. If all damage is applied to the first target after a roll on the Cluster Hit Table, then no additional damage is applied to the second target. However, if some of the damage missed the target, use that 'missed' Damage Value as the new number to roll on the Cluster Hit Table to determine what damage struck the second target."
  
• "For Ultra and Rotary autocannons, make a single to-hit roll against the highest to-hit number plus 1. Then determine whether the designated number of shots fired hit a target. If only one shot hit, it will strike one of the targets - determined at random — with a single shot that does full damage. If two, four or six shots hit, one, two or three shots will strike each target at full damage. If three or five shots hit, one or two shots will strike each target; randomly determine where the other shot lands."
  
• For all other AC instances, "determine the to-hit number for both targets and make separate to-hit rolls against each target, using the higher (more difficult) of the to-hit numbers and adding a +1 modifier for firing at multiple targets with a single shot"; "If the to-hit roll succeeds, the target is struck by a single hit that inflicts damage equal to half the normal damage done by the weapon (rounded down)."

Having all ACs (other than LB-X ACs in cluster mode) as burst-fire weapons is inline with the BT gameplay rules (as demonstrated above), the BT lore (as demonstrated in previous posts), and PGI's technical capabilities (as demonstrated in their implementation of the Clan ballistics).

Yes I know one of the more current rule books allows for that, but for a long time it was all damage to one spot period. Fluff aside I have always preferred the one shell system over the burst setup, and never understood peoples obsession with duplicating it here.

Strum Wealh, on 06 April 2015 - 04:03 PM, said:

It would also raise the skill floor with regard to ballistic weapons (especially with regard to concentrating damage against competent opponents - which would also help to address some of the TTK issues & concerns expressed in other threads), reduce the prevalence of the "PPFLD 'meta'" (as there would be fewer PPFLD weapons outside of the extremely-heavy Gauss Rifle & the extremely-hot PPC family), and provide additional avenues for modules and quirkening (specifically, modifications to shell-spacing and/or overall burst duration, and possibly even burst size - opening the possibility that quirk & module combinations could even be used to emulate the different makes & models within the AC classes).

Raise the skill floor, or make them rather crappy weapons like the Clan ultras? A majority of people seem to agree that the Clan ACs are pretty bad, and the reason for that is the burst fire mechanic. Could they make burst fire not as crappy? Probably, but they have shown no interest in addressing it, and as such I would much rather not see more of a bad mechanic added.

Cimarb, on 06 April 2015 - 06:13 PM, said:

As I have said before, and Strum has more than adequately proven through examples, Autocannons are burst-fire weapons.

If you are going to dispute that, at least back it up with some examples supporting your claim. Otherwise, go troll elsewhere.

Yeah, I'm a troll because I disagree with someone and because I point out that a lot of those examples are nothing more than literary fluff. Seriously, between you and Odanan what is your deal? All I did was give an opinion and the two of you seem to act like I beat up your best friend. Lighten the hell up.

[Odanan]

WarHippy, on 07 April 2015 - 08:35 AM, said:

Yeah, I'm a troll because I disagree with someone and because I point out that a lot of those examples are nothing more than literary fluff. Seriously, between you and Odanan what is your deal? All I did was give an opinion and the two of you seem to act like I beat up your best friend. Lighten the hell up.

OK, OK... hey, maybe I didn't express myself well, but my post was friendly. The guy had a real trouble to find all those texts, so don't dismiss him like that.

About being Strum's best friend, can I? Please? (he is the coolest guy around)

Edited by Odanan, 07 April 2015 - 09:56 AM.

[Odanan]

More lore on the subject:

I remember the first Battletech book was very clear about how the Victor's AC/20 works: it shots a stream of 20 100 rounds shells for each "reload" "round". That explains why the gun is called Autocannon 20 Pontiac 100. Unfortunately, it looks like this reasoning got messed over time, with so many different authors and sources.
EDIT: fixed my confusion. Curiosity: Strangely, Ardan's Victor had 20 rounds of ammo, when stock Victors 9B or 9S have only 15.

Some places* (more appropriately) even call the AC/20 "Assault Autocannon", suggesting the AC/10 would be the "Heavy", the AC/5 would be the "Medium" and the AC/2 would be the "Light".**

* Somewhere in the Warrior Trilogy, about the Yen-Lo-Wang.

** The JagerMech weapons' description reinforce the "Medium" and "Light" classifications for AC/2 and AC/5. From Sarna:

Quote

The JagerMech mounts two pairs of Mydron autocannons; each arm is fitted with a Model C Medium Autocannon and a Model D Light Autocannon.

This is not the same thing as the later Light Autocannons systems (LAC/2 and LAC/5).

Edited by Odanan, 08 April 2015 - 04:37 AM.