20517 replies to this topic

[Metus regem]

Odanan, on 09 January 2016 - 06:17 AM, said:

There problem is not bugged hitboxes, but how smaller the light mechs are in MWO. It is much easier to hit an Atlas than a Spider (even with both not moving). In TT all mechs have the same difficult to hit, no mater the weight.

Again true, but in TT it is a lot easier to hit a running Atlas than a Locust when both are in a full on strait line sprint...

[TheArisen]

Interesting comparison Metus. Obviously it's impossible to know %100. How about comparing meta build AC vrs (likely) meta Coyotl?

[Bishop Steiner]

Metus regem, on 09 January 2016 - 07:30 AM, said:

Again true, but in TT it is a lot easier to hit a running Atlas than a Locust when both are in a full on strait line sprint...

Meh, that's the thing though, you really can't test, because hitboxes and pinpoint aim and hardpoints really mean nothing in TT.

You have modifiers based on movement, but that really doesn't tell the story. In TT, the Awesome 8Q is an outright death machine. How well has that translated?

In TT, all mechs have the same "hitboxes" (aka location hit chart) and aside from leg mounted weapons and level 1 terrain, the same "hardpoint elevation". Geometry is utterly meaningless.

Those are overwhelmingly the deciding factors of what DOES define viability in MWO, as an FPS.

For it to really tell us anything, all MWO Mechs would have to have the exact same size, profile and hardpoint locations, THEN you could compare the effects of loadout vs armor vs speed.

As it is, TT really tells us NOTHING about in game viability, other than what it SHOULD be able to do, but can't.

[Odanan]

From Russ Twitter:


Go go go!

Edited by Odanan, 11 January 2016 - 02:05 PM.

[Bishop Steiner]

Odanan, on 11 January 2016 - 01:25 PM, said:

From Russ Twitter:


Go go go!

Yay...a jumbo pack.....

Eh, whatever. I voted Fire Falcon, Huntsman, Crossbow and Turkina.

Dunno why I like them Crossbows so much, but I do.

[CDLord HHGD]

We need the Fire Moth and Viper, then the Clan section of my 3050 TRO will be complete.

[Bishop Steiner]

cdlord, on 11 January 2016 - 02:13 PM, said:

We need the Fire Moth and Viper, then the Clan section of my 3050 TRO will be complete.

without some serious fudging one way or another Firemoth I believe is too fast for the game before MASC. Viper I wouldn't mind, but it's pretty weak. But I'd take it if I could have my Crossbow.

[CDLord HHGD]

Bishop Steiner, on 11 January 2016 - 02:18 PM, said:

without some serious fudging one way or another Firemoth I believe is too fast for the game before MASC. Viper I wouldn't mind, but it's pretty weak. But I'd take it if I could have my Crossbow.

Serious fudging? From those lore thumping maniacs at PGI?? Say it isn't so!

[Virlutris]

Bishop Steiner, on 11 January 2016 - 02:18 PM, said:

without some serious fudging one way or another Firemoth I believe is too fast for the game before MASC. Viper I wouldn't mind, but it's pretty weak. But I'd take it if I could have my Crossbow.

Fudging's not that bad, I did the math upthread. I'd like it if we considered this carefully rather than dismissing the Firemoth out of hand because we think it might be too fast. (Ed: I should note that I don't think Bishop is doing so, but it's commmon. I also don't think my idea constitutes "serious fudging" but some may)

Walk with me here:

For Firemoth to be in, 2 things are needed because it's too fast due to 2 mechanics.

1) We'd need a micronerf to the engine speed itself (assuming the game's speed limit remains the same) because the XL200 is barely too fast. 2 percent would do it, bringing it to 171. Summoner has a speed buff for viability enhancement, this would be a benificent nerf to get it in the game to start.

2)we'd need to acknowledge that MASC is not going to be accommodated without a monster nerf to the engine speed so the MASC'd speed doesn't outrun the netcode. At that point why bother running the thing? If it's unusable, let's treat it like an anti-infantry pod on another mech and magic-wand it away.

Better to run it at 171 fully-skilled, as the fastest mech in the game anyway (no MASC needed for that) a bit faster than the other speedy 30-and-unders. MASC wouldn't be "unlocked" because it simply wouldn't exist as an option. We'd use the free ton and crit for something else useful. (Armor, weapons, equipment, ammo, etc).

Without the MASC, and cookin' at 171, it would be at least as viable as a Locust. Why not?

Ed: clarity, grammarz

Edited by Virlutris, 11 January 2016 - 03:19 PM.

[Odanan]

Bishop Steiner, on 11 January 2016 - 02:10 PM, said:

Yay...a jumbo pack.....

Eh, whatever. I voted Fire Falcon, Huntsman, Crossbow Night Gyr and Turkina.

FTFY

Bishop Steiner, on 11 January 2016 - 02:10 PM, said:

Dunno why I like them Crossbows so much, but I do.

Nuts!

Edited by Odanan, 11 January 2016 - 03:52 PM.

[Odanan]

Virlutris, on 11 January 2016 - 03:04 PM, said:

Fudging's not that bad, I did the math upthread. I'd like it if we considered this carefully rather than dismissing the Firemoth out of hand because we think it might be too fast. (Ed: I should note that I don't think Bishop is doing so, but it's commmon. I also don't think my idea constitutes "serious fudging" but some may)

Walk with me here:

For Firemoth to be in, 2 things are needed because it's too fast due to 2 mechanics.

1) We'd need a micronerf to the engine speed itself (assuming the game's speed limit remains the same) because the XL200 is barely too fast. 2 percent would do it, bringing it to 171. Summoner has a speed buff for viability enhancement, this would be a benificent nerf to get it in the game to start.

2)we'd need to acknowledge that MASC is not going to be accommodated without a monster nerf to the engine speed so the MASC'd speed doesn't outrun the netcode. At that point why bother running the thing? If it's unusable, let's treat it like an anti-infantry pod on another mech and magic-wand it away.

Better to run it at 171 fully-skilled, as the fastest mech in the game anyway (no MASC needed for that) a bit faster than the other speedy 30-and-unders. MASC wouldn't be "unlocked" because it simply wouldn't exist as an option. We'd use the free ton and crit for something else useful. (Armor, weapons, equipment, ammo, etc).

Without the MASC, and cookin' at 171, it would be at least as viable as a Locust. Why not?

Ed: clarity, grammarz

No need for speed nerf: I think the game can handle a few more 6 km/h.

And yes, MASC has to go.

Fire Moth: fastest mech in the game (as it should be), with jump and ECM. Imagine Locust on steroids.

[Bishop Steiner]

Odanan, on 11 January 2016 - 03:47 PM, said:

FTFY

Nuts!

Night Gyr ain't even second on my list....

Crossbow
(Nova Cat if we can fudge a few years)
Woodsman
THEN Night Gyr, which I find very visually dull and boring.

Edited by Bishop Steiner, 11 January 2016 - 04:43 PM.

[Metus regem]

Odanan, on 11 January 2016 - 03:51 PM, said:

No need for speed nerf: I think the game can handle a few more 6 km/h.

And yes, MASC has to go.

Fire Moth: fastest mech in the game (as it should be), with jump and ECM. Imagine Locust on steroids.

So Locust IIC?

[Odanan]

Metus regem, on 11 January 2016 - 04:45 PM, said:

So Locust IIC?

Locust IIC is 25 tons. :/

And doesn't have ECM or jumpjets.

[Metus regem]

Odanan, on 11 January 2016 - 06:04 PM, said:

Locust IIC is 25 tons. :/

And doesn't have ECM or jumpjets.

But you said "Locust on steroids".... The Fire Moth is the Locust on Crack....

Bishop Steiner, on 11 January 2016 - 04:42 PM, said:

Night Gyr ain't even second on my list....

Crossbow
(Nova Cat if we can fudge a few years)
Woodsman
THEN Night Gyr, which I find very visually dull and boring.

What about the Lupis? The precursor to the Mad Dog, with Endo and FF, just with a Standard Engine...

[TheArisen]

How about,
Light: Firefalcon
Medium: Pouncer, Huntsman or Coyotl
Heavy: Nightgyr, Glass Spider
Assault: Bane

[Virlutris]

Odanan, on 11 January 2016 - 03:51 PM, said:

No need for speed nerf: I think the game can handle a few more 6 km/h.

And yes, MASC has to go.

Fire Moth: fastest mech in the game (as it should be), with jump and ECM. Imagine Locust on steroids.

While I'm fine with it if we don't need to tweak it, I think the case needs to be made in terms of the most conservative counter-arguments.

That usually includes: "But teh speed limit!"

Even where the old limit is still a thing, we can easily fix it. That was all I intended to convey. If the netcode can handle 174.15 kph, so much the better.

[kapusta11]

Light: could care less
Medium: Vapor Eagle, Huntsman
Heavy: Black Python, Night Gyr
Assault: Bane, Marauder IIC

[Widowmaker1981]

kapusta11, on 12 January 2016 - 02:02 AM, said:

Light: could care less

Edited by Widowmaker1981, 12 January 2016 - 02:20 AM.

[Odanan]

Widowmaker1981, on 12 January 2016 - 02:19 AM, said:

Just learned something new...