20517 replies to this topic

[Odanan]

TrapJaw80, on 21 February 2016 - 02:17 AM, said:

Lorewise and as a fan of Battletech i would like to see the cyclops in game. I know its like an atlas but its epic!
Maybe with an new comandmech feature?

They even have the concept art done. Oh, PGI, why do you hide art from the people?!?!

More command features would certainly help the game. PGI should at least revamp the Command Console into an area bonus. Something worth for the 3 tons it is.

About the MK II, please, there are already many threads about that out there.

[Ace Selin]

Sir Helbrecht, on 20 February 2016 - 11:52 AM, said:

Russ spoke about one more classic mech in addition to the Kodiak.

https://www.reddit.c..._summary_recap/

If its a Classic mech then i suspect it will be an unseen mech. So im guessing Phoenix Hawk or Crusader.

[Odanan]

Ace Selin, on 21 February 2016 - 04:58 AM, said:

If its a Classic mech then i suspect it will be an unseen mech. So im guessing Phoenix Hawk or Crusader.

Or Wasp. Or Stinger.

[Juodas Varnas]

Odanan, on 21 February 2016 - 05:02 AM, said:

Or Wasp. Or Stinger.

Wasp+Stinger double pack!!

[jss78]

Ace Selin, on 21 February 2016 - 04:58 AM, said:

If its a Classic mech then i suspect it will be an unseen mech. So im guessing Phoenix Hawk or Crusader.

Yup, "classic" seems to be PGI lingo for the unseen that remain to be included.

For the sake of weight-class balance, I hope they go with Phoenix Hawk over the Crusader. But I think either one would sell well.

Personally, I'd love to see the Chameleon. One of the really old Battletech mechs, I think it'd have a niche in MWO (fast humanoid medium laser boat on IS side), plus I think of the visual designs original to Battletech it's one of the best. But if they bring in the Phoenix Hawk, I think it might be redundant as I think the two would play quite similarly.

[Imperius]

Odanan, on 20 February 2016 - 05:15 PM, said:

Don't say "Mad Cat MK II" three times or Imperius will show up.

Oh, he is already here!

(Just kidding. The MK II looks pretty cool even before Alex Iglesias magic and has great potential. It will certainly be a great mech in MWO, when it comes. But let's stay in the 3050s for now, right?)

Did someone say Mad Cat MK II? (You have now summoned me)

No, I've been in this thread and have avoided posting stuff about the MK II, because we have two healthy Mad Cat MK II threads already.

As for the timeline Russ already confirmed it doesn't exist, check my MK II threads for Twiiter proof if you need it. The limitations are a few variants need to use current MWO tech in the game, and bode well with Russ's gut feeling. That's it

[Strum Wealh]

CK16, on 20 February 2016 - 08:50 PM, said:

The TRO 3067 states that it started production around 3061/2 after it was full developed about 15 months before. It goes on to say though sales did not start though till 3066...I am going to come out and say what my theroy here is based on this though as I don't think they took 5 years to assemble a few to start selling.

Actually, such a delay is not unusual.

As an example of unusually fast development of a military vehicle, see the P-51 Mustang fighter from WWII.

• "The prototype NA-73X was rolled out in September 1940, just 102 days after the order had been placed; it first flew on 26 October 1940, 149 days into the contract, an uncommonly short gestation period even during the war."
  
• "The first Mustang Mk Is entered service in January 1942, the first unit being 26 Squadron RAF".

The Mustang went from drawing board to prototype in 102 days (~3.3 months) & from prototype to operational (e.g. the first combat-ready models being delivered to any unit) in roughly 1 year and 2 months, representing a total development period of almost a year and a half for what started as a request for a slightly-modified P-40 Warhawk.

For more typical examples:

• On the F-4 Phantom II: "On 25 July 1955, the Navy ordered two XF4H-1 test aircraft and five YF4H-1 pre-production examples. The Phantom made its maiden flight on 27 May 1958 with Robert C. Little at the controls" and " In 1959, the Phantom began carrier suitability trials with the first complete launch-recovery cycle performed on 15 February 1960 from USS Independence"; the F-4 became operational in December 1960.
  
• The prototypes for the M1 Abrams MBT were delivered in 1976 (by Chrysler Defense and General Motors), but the Abrams did not enter service with the US Army until 1980.
  
• The US Army issued the final draft for the specifications for what would become the Humvee in 1979, with the final model entering production and becoming operational in 1984.

That a BattleMech could take 15 months (~457 days) to go from drawing board to prototype, then an additional 3-5 years between the construction of the prototype and becoming operational (that is. the delivery of the first combat-ready models) is far from unthinkable.

[Metus regem]

Strum Wealh, on 21 February 2016 - 06:20 AM, said:

Actually, such a delay is not unusual.

As an example of unusually fast development of a military vehicle, see the P-51 Mustang fighter from WWII.

• "The prototype NA-73X was rolled out in September 1940, just 102 days after the order had been placed; it first flew on 26 October 1940, 149 days into the contract, an uncommonly short gestation period even during the war."
  
• "The first Mustang Mk Is entered service in January 1942, the first unit being 26 Squadron RAF".

The Mustang went from drawing board to prototype in 102 days (~3.3 months) & from prototype to operational (e.g. the first combat-ready models being delivered to any unit) in roughly 1 year and 2 months, representing a total development period of almost a year and a half for what started as a request for a slightly-modified P-40 Warhawk.

For more typical examples:

• On the F-4 Phantom II: "On 25 July 1955, the Navy ordered two XF4H-1 test aircraft and five YF4H-1 pre-production examples. The Phantom made its maiden flight on 27 May 1958 with Robert C. Little at the controls" and " In 1959, the Phantom began carrier suitability trials with the first complete launch-recovery cycle performed on 15 February 1960 from USS Independence"; the F-4 became operational in December 1960.
  
• The prototypes for the M1 Abrams MBT were delivered in 1976 (by Chrysler Defense and General Motors), but the Abrams did not enter service with the US Army until 1980.
  
• The US Army issued the final draft for the specifications for what would become the Humvee in 1979, with the final model entering production and becoming operational in 1984.

That a BattleMech could take 15 months (~457 days) to go from drawing board to prototype, then an additional 3-5 years between the construction of the prototype and becoming operational (that is. the delivery of the first combat-ready models) is far from unthinkable.

I'd say it's more likely the normal to take 3-5 years to go fully operational.

[CK16]

Though you have a point here, Does this period fall under production though? Cause they say out right production started. Now granted it could be taken both ways. But the understanding I took from it was that 15 months of R&D for the prototypes and then started to produce them. It sounds like in TRO that they are generally surprised that it has been in production for so long while little fielded.

I usually look at for armored vehicles as well for official production date, The M60(A0) went from concept to testing to production with in a very short time frame, like 18 months (don't have exact dates off top of my head here). I look at this real world example though as a good reference as well to compare with the Madcat Mk.II. The M60 was an improved an up gunned M48 pretty much with a few other changes like switching from Gas to Diesel , up to date FCS and sights ect. But it was perfected pretty quickly and started production in 1959. So I still think they could have had a few functional Madcat MK.II's in 3061/2 specially in Clan service hidden from the Inner Sphere houses.

You guys have valid points but it could be interrupted either way I see.

I mean look at the video below as well it does confirm a bit. What year officially does MW4 Vengeance take place in?

Edited by CK16, 22 February 2016 - 10:57 PM.

[Metus regem]

CK16, on 21 February 2016 - 11:08 AM, said:

Though you have a point here, Does this period fall under production though? Cause they say out right production started. Now granted it could be taken both ways. But the understanding I took from it was that 15 months of R&D for the prototypes and then started to produce them. It sounds like in TRO that they are generally surprised that it has been in production for so long while little fielded.

I usually look at for armored vehicles as well for official production date, The M60(A0) went from concept to testing to production with in a very short time frame, like 18 months (don't have exact dates off top of my head here). I look at this real world example though as a good reference as well to compare with the Madcat Mk.II. The M60 was an improved an up gunned M48 pretty much with a few other changes like switching from Gas to Diesel , up to date FCS and sights ect. But it was perfected pretty quickly and started production in 1959. So I still think they could have had a few functional Madcat MK.II's in 3061/2 specially in Clan service hidden from the Inner Sphere houses.

You guys have valid points but it could be interrupted either way I see.

I mean look at the video below as well it does confirm a bit. What year officially does MW4 Vengeance take place in?

Funny thing about the M60 tank, if you fallow it all the way back, it started life as a T20 tank (T20->M26->M46->M-47->M48->M60) around 1942, so really it took around 17 years to reach the end variant of the M60....

As for the Mk. II, likely prototypes were ready around 3059, tested and ready for deployment 3063, rejected by Clan buyers in 3063, sold to IS in 3066

[CK16]

Metus regem, on 21 February 2016 - 01:16 PM, said:

Funny thing about the M60 tank, if you fallow it all the way back, it started life as a T20 tank (T20->M26->M46->M-47->M48->M60) around 1942, so really it took around 17 years to reach the end variant of the M60....

As for the Mk. II, likely prototypes were ready around 3059, tested and ready for deployment 3063, rejected by Clan buyers in 3063, sold to IS in 3066

That is about what I was thinking honestly as well. ANd technically the M60 was still being perfected till what 1978? with the M60a3? I did a whole article on it for Rita and her WoT blog. lol

[Metus regem]

The other funny thing about the MK II, aside from some body lines, it actually has nothing in common with the Timber Wolf. The arms on the Mk. II have more in common with the Ebon Jaguar, than they do with the Timber Wolf or Marauder (The MAD part for Mad Cat) and the shoulder launchers do not share the same box look of the Timber Wolf Prime or the Catapult (the CAT part of Mad Cat). On top of this it, like the Mk. III (and the Mk. III has the right looking launchers and arms), is a battle Mech, not an Omni-mech.

Also by using the destination Mad Cat, rather than Timber Wolf, it's fairly clear that Clan Diamond Shark, later going back to Sea Fox, wanted to sell it to the IS from the get-go, like the Mk. III, yet when we look at the Mk. IV, it has gone back to being an Omni-mech, yet this time shares the Ebon Jaguar style arms with angled shoulder launchers,and the Mk. IV Savage Wolf was clearly marketed towards the Clans, built by Clan Wolf and Jade Falcon, with Jade Falcon making off with the two prototypes that were only battlemechs.

[CK16]

I was thinking alot of those points as well lol. I mean even the selection of the weapons was stated as rather older for a "new" mech design. They didnt mount any of the new heavy lasers or HAG's ect. till far later.

[Strum Wealh]

CK16, on 21 February 2016 - 11:08 AM, said:

I usually look at for armored vehicles as well for official production date, The M60(A0) went from concept to testing to production with in a very short time frame, like 18 months (don't have exact dates off top of my head here). I look at this real world example though as a good reference as well to compare with the Madcat Mk.II. The M60 was an improved an up gunned M48 pretty much with a few other changes like switching from Gas to Diesel , up to date FCS and sights ect. But it was perfected pretty quickly and started production in 1959. So I still think they could have had a few functional Madcat MK.II's in 3061/2 specially in Clan service hidden from the Inner Sphere houses.

"The M60 Patton is a main battle tank (MBT) introduced in December 1960."
"In 1957, plans were laid in the US for a universal or all purpose tank. Fulfilling this requirement with an interim tank resulted in the M60 series, which largely resembles the M48 it was based on, but has significant differences."
"Originally designated the XM60, the new vehicle was put into production in 1959, standardized as the 105 mm Gun Full Tracked Combat Tank M60 on 16 March 1959, and entered service in 1960."

It's the same thing as before - there is a delay between stages (drawing board, to prototype, to production, to becoming operational/entering service) - the M60 was put into production in 1959 (two years after the US Army put out the call), but did not enter service (e.g. delivery to the troops) until late 1960.

Though, interestingly, there seems to have been an update to MUL, as it now lists the Mad Cat Mk.II as being introduced in 3062 rather than the original 3066 date.
(Then again, it's also listed as a brawler-type 'Mech, even though its primary weapons are Gauss Rifles & LRM launchers... )

[CK16]

Strum Wealh, on 21 February 2016 - 05:55 PM, said:

"The M60 Patton is a main battle tank (MBT) introduced in December 1960."
"In 1957, plans were laid in the US for a universal or all purpose tank. Fulfilling this requirement with an interim tank resulted in the M60 series, which largely resembles the M48 it was based on, but has significant differences."
"Originally designated the XM60, the new vehicle was put into production in 1959, standardized as the 105 mm Gun Full Tracked Combat Tank M60 on 16 March 1959, and entered service in 1960."

It's the same thing as before - there is a delay between stages (drawing board, to prototype, to production, to becoming operational/entering service) - the M60 was put into production in 1959 (two years after the US Army put out the call), but did not enter service (e.g. delivery to the troops) until late 1960.

Though, interestingly, there seems to have been an update to MUL, as it now lists the Mad Cat Mk.II as being introduced in 3062 rather than the original 3066 date.
(Then again, it's also listed as a brawler-type 'Mech, even though its primary weapons are Gauss Rifles & LRM launchers... )

Yea, they were trying to decided what to mount on the M60 was the largest issues, There was the turret on the T95E6 with the 120mm T123E6. There was pretty much just a M48A2 turret and 90mm M41 planned. They didn't know fully but wen they finally were able to look at a T55 they found out the 90mm was out. the 120mm was found out to be to long of a reload with a single loader and 2 part ammunition. The 105mm T254 (later to become the 105mm M68) was selected and thus was born. The gun selection was what took so long there. The M60 with the T95E6 turret was also highly sought after but the early M60's would not be able to be delivered in time if they waited for the castings so they made the stop gap M60 and continued with the turret development that would be the M60A1.

I noticed that as well, never new it was good at brawling xD I usually tried to stay AWAY from close range in them while in MW4 O.o

[CDLord HHGD]

Still waiting for the:
Longbow
Crusader
Valkyrie
Stinger
Wasp
Ostscout
Ostsol
Ostroc

Also.... Bump....

[Steinar Bergstol]

Ah, the Ostscout. The mech where the designers of the 3052 upgrade felt the single medium laser of the original made its pilots too gung-ho, so they ripped it out and gave them a TAG instead.

[Odanan]

cdlord, on 24 February 2016 - 05:14 AM, said:

Still waiting for the:
Longbow
Crusader
Valkyrie
Stinger
Wasp
Ostscout
Ostsol
Ostroc

Also.... Bump....

Except for the Ostsol and Ostscout, (Ostroc alone would be enough presence for the OSTs), yes, I want them (Macross Unseen) all!

PS: is Sarna down?

Steinar Bergstol, on 24 February 2016 - 06:17 AM, said:

Ah, the Ostscout. The mech where the designers of the 3052 upgrade felt the single medium laser of the original made its pilots too gung-ho, so they ripped it out and gave them a TAG instead.

Look at the bright side: at least it wasn't a Machinegun!

[Metus regem]

Odanan, on 24 February 2016 - 06:23 AM, said:

Except for the Ostsol and Ostscout, (Ostroc alone would be enough presence for the OSTs), yes, I want them (Macross Unseen) all!

PS: is Sarna down?


Look at the bright side: at least it wasn't a Machinegun!

One could argue that the MG would be more useful....

[CDLord HHGD]

Odanan, on 24 February 2016 - 06:23 AM, said:

PS: is Sarna down?

I noticed that too....

Server error 500.... Something broke.