20517 replies to this topic

[Virlutris]

As much as folks want the Stinger/Wasp double-take, I'd bet on a solo Valkyrie before that in the IS light bracket.

It's mostly a gut feeling to begin with, but as I consider it I think it probably stems from the fact that it would require twice as much dev work for ths same return.

(Dunno if someone would argue this, but just in case) Before someone argues about re-usable assets reducing the needed time, I'll argue that you want each of those 20-ton humanoid mechs to be as distinctive as possible from one another in every possible respect, given how similar they already are. Otherwise, why bother adding both?

Besides, the Valk actually looks fairly respectable loadout-wise compared to the Spiders.

That said, maybe Alex has a thing for humanoid 20-tonners, and maybe he's already got it sketched up. Who knows?

Also, for mediums, I'd be pretty happy woth one of several 40-tonners. It's kind of a tonnage soft spot right now, with a bunch of mechs that were more prominent in the House's assignment tables than the Cicada. I'm no lore pro, but there seem to be several easy options available.

I'm sure Alex could work some Viper/Cyclops magic on a couple

Edited by Virlutris, 20 April 2016 - 01:37 PM.

[Bishop Steiner]

Steinar Bergstol, on 20 April 2016 - 01:25 PM, said:

My first thought when I saw that cockpit item wasn't Eridani Light Horse. I immediately thought "Hey, that looks more like the Lindon's Company insignia".



The whole horsehead chesspiece look, ya know.

http://mwomercs.com/...ost__p__5145107

great minds, great minds.....

Edited by Bishop Steiner, 20 April 2016 - 01:45 PM.

[Metus regem]

Bishop Steiner, on 20 April 2016 - 01:45 PM, said:

http://mwomercs.com/...ost__p__5145107

great minds, great minds.....

....... Fools seldom differ.

All joaking aside, it was the colours of the cockpit item that had me think of the ELHR first.

[TheArisen]

What's the point of releasing both the Wasp & Stinger when they're basically the same mech? They look almost exactly the same, same loadouts, etc. A 20 tonner needs all the speed it can get & these two have notably smaller engines than the Locust.

[Richard Hazen]

The mech's colours are nothing like Lindon's companys though and I can't see any reference to the more FFR style decoration where as The Eridani's homeworld is in FFR space, that goes for the name as well unless I'm missing something..

[Ovion]

TheArisen, on 20 April 2016 - 05:08 PM, said:

What's the point of releasing both the Wasp & Stinger when they're basically the same mech? They look almost exactly the same, same loadouts, etc. A 20 tonner needs all the speed it can get & these two have notably smaller engines than the Locust.

Which would make them a great canditate for a 2-for-1 type deal.

Release both, as a single pack, for $20.
The base pack - 6 mechs (3+3)
then the Upgrade is 8 (4+4)
Each Hero option is 2 (1+1)
And if using Reinforcement, it's an extra 4 (2+2)

This gives us some extra options, 2 more of the reseen / unseen, and added incentive to buy what would possibly be a subpar mech, with minimal extra effort on the part of PGI.

[Odanan]

TheArisen, on 20 April 2016 - 05:08 PM, said:

What's the point of releasing both the Wasp & Stinger when they're basically the same mech? They look almost exactly the same, same loadouts, etc. A 20 tonner needs all the speed it can get & these two have notably smaller engines than the Locust.

Similarities:
- Both have some all energy variants;
- Both have the same speed, tonnage, jump jets and general look.

Differences:
- Wasp is usually energy+missiles, Stinger is energy+ballistics;
- Wasp is usually right arm + left torso weapons, Stinger is usually right arm + left arm weapons;
- Wasp has 8 variants, enough to make the pack + reinforcements. Stinger has only 4, which would require "author" P variants (some could bring different equipment, like double AMS, ECM, MASC...).

See the detailed variants here.

I don't know if both will be in the game, but at least the Wasp (most common light mech in the IS) is certain.

[Karl Streiger]

Yes Stinger...than its 19 Stingers vs 1 Atlas

[Odanan]

Ovion, on 20 April 2016 - 05:18 PM, said:

This gives us some extra options, 2 more of the reseen / unseen, and added incentive to buy what would possibly be a subpar mech, with minimal extra effort on the part of PGI.

Subpar? Imagine a Spider 50% smaller. I think the Wasp and Stinger will be a lot of fun!

PS: I suppose PGI will make them differently enough so you will be able to tell one from another. This means they will have all the regular work (except for probably the animation).

Edited by Odanan, 21 April 2016 - 05:43 AM.

[Metus regem]

Odanan, on 21 April 2016 - 05:43 AM, said:

Subpar? Imagine a Spider 50% smaller. I think the Wasp and Stinger will be a lot of fun!

PS: I suppose PGI will make them differently enough so you will be able to tell one from another. This means they will have all the regular work (except for probably the animation).

Due to the shared design componets between the Stinger, Wasp, Valkyrie, Phoenix Hawk and Crusader they could use similar animation to each other. Hell in universe, Stinger and Wasp mechs have compatible parts, meaning you can salvage a Wasp to fix a Stinger. Kind of handy for the number one and number two most common mechs in universe.

[Odanan]

So, about the next IS mechs. With the introduction of the Cyclops, I see PGI will end up adding ALL mechs in the Battletech Introductory Box. Here is a list of them:

• Commando -> already in game
  
• Spider -> already in game
  
• Jenner -> already in game
  
• Panther -> already in game
  
• Assassin
  
• Cicada -> already in game
  
• Clint
  
• Hermes II
  
• Whitworth
  
• Vindicator -> already in game
  
• Enforcer -> already in game
  
• Hunchback -> already in game
  
• Trebuchet -> already in game
  
• Dervish
  
• Dragon -> already in game
  
• Quickdraw -> already in game
  
• Catapult -> already in game
  
• JagerMech -> already in game
  
• Grasshopper -> already in game
  
• Awesome -> already in game
  
• Zeus -> already in game
  
• Cyclops -> coming August, 2016
  
• Banshee -> already in game
  
• Atlas -> already in game

This leaves only the medium mechs: Assassin (40 tons), Clint (40 tons), Hermes II (40 tons), Whitworth (40 tons) and Dervish (55 tons).

Of these the only true star is the Assassin. It fills a role no other 40-45 tonner fits: jumping, fast missile boat (probably light hunter or SRM backstaber).

Clint is a mini Enforcer, Hermes II is similar with the Clint, but without jumpjets, Whitworth is a mini LRM boat (mini Catapult) and Dervish might behave a lot like some Griffin variants.

Edited by Odanan, 21 April 2016 - 06:34 AM.

[Richard Hazen]

Hermes II is the Marik mech though and it looks cool.

[Odanan]

Will Hawker, on 21 April 2016 - 06:30 AM, said:

Hermes II is the Marik mech though and it looks cool.

Indeed. Second most common Marik medium (Wolverine is first, Phoenix Hawk is third).

[Ovion]

Odanan, on 21 April 2016 - 05:43 AM, said:

Subpar? Imagine a Spider 50% smaller. I think the Wasp and Stinger will be a lot of fun!

PS: I suppose PGI will make them differently enough so you will be able to tell one from another. This means they will have all the regular work (except for probably the animation).

Don't get me wrong, I want them, I will find the money to buy them, possibly even the special hero editions.
But, they're still likely to be... difficult.
Same weight as a Locust, but slower, possibly less armed. JJs will be nice though.

The biggest difference overall is the head (traditionally) and the 'shoulder cannon' in the 'new' version.
I'd honestly expect it to look something like the Phoenix hawk though.

Both Wasp and Stinger are 20T.
They both have 6JJ
Both will likely have an upper speed of 145-150kph. (probable 165-170 engine cap - maybe 175?)

Usable Wasp variants weapons:
1E, 1M
4E
1E, 1B
1M
4E
6E
6E

Usable Stinger variants weapons:
1E, 2B
2E
4E
2E, 1AMS
(A lot of these will possibly see hardpoint inflation - but the Locust 3V didn't, so who knows)

With an XL 170 (likely max engine), you'll be going 148kph, and require 4 external heatsinks
This means, with Endo, Ferro, DHS, just using the engine and optimal armour gives you 7.5T and 5S to play with.
Before Weapons, Jump Jets, equipment.

If you CAN go up to a 175-190, that brings you to 8 slots + 6.5-7T free.
You need to fit Jump Jets, equipment, weapons and ammo in to this.

We probably won't be taking BAP here, and no variant available has ECM, so that's a minimal worry.
Jump Jets will take up a significant portion of the space if you actually want them to be useful.

So we're looking at having to sacrifice something to make it viable.
The most likely here being FF, which at a 190 gives us 22 slots, 6T free, 175 is 6.5T and 22S free, and the more likely 170 being 7T and 19S free. Maybe +.5T for stripping armour.
If we max out Jump Jets, that leaves 3-4.5T for weapons.
Space is already at a premium on the locust, and this adds more stuff to go in to the same or less area.

Like I said - I'll get them, I'll probably enjoy them, but they will definitely be an uphill struggle.

[Odanan]

And since we are on it, here is a list of the 16 mechs for the Battletech 2nd Edition:

• Locust -> already in game
  
• Stinger
  
• Wasp
  
• Phoenix Hawk -> coming in June, 2016
  
• Chameleon (no stand-up playing piece provided)
  
• Griffin -> already in game
  
• Shadow Hawk -> already in game
  
• Wolverine -> already in game
  
• Merlin (no stand-up playing piece provided)
  
• Rifleman -> already in game
  
• Crusader
  
• Thunderbolt -> already in game
  
• Archer -> already in game
  
• Warhammer -> already in game
  
• Marauder -> already in game
  
• BattleMaster -> already in game

The Chameleon had an art in the book, but no miniature. The Merlin had no art or miniature (it was only an example for mech construction rules). The Longbow and Valkyrie are another Macross designs, but were added to the game later (not in the box).

If PGI returns to the 4-mech pack, a Project Phoenix II will be most adequate, with: Wasp (or Stinger or Valkyrie), Chameleon, Crusader and Longbow.

Edited by Odanan, 21 April 2016 - 06:53 AM.

[Metus regem]

Odanan, on 21 April 2016 - 06:49 AM, said:

If PGI returns to the 4-mech pack, a Project Phoenix II will be most adequate, with: Wasp (or Stinger or Valkyrie), Chameleon, Crusader and Longbow.

Not a bad set for a four pack there, and some of the art I've seen for the Chameleon looks like it could share assets with the Wasp, Stinger, Valkyrie and Phoenix Hawk.


Source: BattleTech, 2nd Edition Rulebook (1985), p. 1

[Odanan]

Yes, the Chameleon is the secret Unseen.

[ChapeL]

Metus regem, on 21 April 2016 - 07:07 AM, said:

Not a bad set for a four pack there, and some of the art I've seen for the Chameleon looks like it could share assets with the Wasp, Stinger, Valkyrie and Phoenix Hawk.

If PGI starts reusing mech parts for new designs people will accuse them of being lazy ( and rightly so ) I mean those same people are already accusing PGI of reusing the Warhammer's legs on the Cyclops regardlessof the GLARING differences ...

[dervishx5]

Odanan, on 21 April 2016 - 07:14 AM, said:

Yes, the Chameleon is the secret Unseen.

I thought that was the Flea.

In the land of Canada, in the fog of Vancouver, the Dark Lord Russ forged in secret, a master mech, to control all others. And into this mech he poured all his cruelty, his malice and his will to tease us for 3 years.

[Odanan]

ChapeL, on 21 April 2016 - 07:18 AM, said:

If PGI starts reusing mech parts for new designs people will accuse them of being lazy ( and rightly so ) I mean those same people are already accusing PGI of reusing the Warhammer's legs on the Cyclops regardlessof the GLARING differences ...

Well, most Clan omnimechs reuse parts, and the Warhammer and Rifleman do share the same legs.
I see no problem if, when the lore supports it, PGI make these mechs share components.