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Ultimate Mech Discussion Thread

BattleMech Balance

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#13841 Odanan

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Posted 28 June 2016 - 08:58 AM

View PostVirlutris, on 28 June 2016 - 08:51 AM, said:

Not that we need a 4th ClanTech 75-tonner (battlemech, granted), but what about the Black Python:

http://www.sarna.net...k_Python_(Viper)

Seems fun Posted Image

Yes, this certainly will be a great mech in MWO, when it comes. I'm very curious about how Alex Iglesias will do it too.

Unfortunately, most variants are future tech, so it might take a while.

#13842 CK16

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Posted 28 June 2016 - 09:52 AM

Linebacker would be good at the (gen) Blitz :P

I am still hopeful we get a surprise and it's the Nova Cat or something lol

#13843 Pariah Devalis

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Posted 28 June 2016 - 09:54 AM

So much call for the IIC version mechs. Yet every single one of them, all of them suffer timeline tech blockage. I can see PGI modifying or inventing one or two variants, but this new 5 + hero thing makes them all incredibly unlikely until we have heavy lasers and ATMs.

#13844 CK16

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Posted 28 June 2016 - 09:57 AM

View PostPariah Devalis, on 28 June 2016 - 09:54 AM, said:

So much call for the IIC version mechs. Yet every single one of them, all of them suffer timeline tech blockage. I can see PGI modifying or inventing one or two variants, but this new 5 + hero thing makes them all incredibly unlikely until we have heavy lasers and ATMs.


Been saying that for awhile, but hardly anyone wanted to listen to crazy ole CK here, cause it was some how related to Mk II and tech/time jump :P

Edited by CK16, 28 June 2016 - 10:16 AM.


#13845 CK16

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Posted 28 June 2016 - 10:10 AM

Also, some one needs to pitch Russ a DWF-P based off the DWF-C, center ECM slot, fixed JJ's, LA and RA missles mounts.....thing could add some life to the DWF in a FW setting in some circumstances.

#13846 Metus regem

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Posted 28 June 2016 - 10:16 AM

View PostCK16, on 28 June 2016 - 09:57 AM, said:

Been saying that for awhile, but hardly anyone wanted to listen to cray ole CK here, cause it was some how related to Mk II and tech/time jump Posted Image



No, it was more that we got tired of listening to one poor example of a eugenics program sample that shall remain nameless well full on crazy stalker girl over PGI for the Mk. II, to the point that if you simply said, "I hope it's everything you want it to be, but I don't care for it." put you on their enemy list.

Me? I'm all for more goodies, but I know that those goodies will upset what passes for (im)balance around here... I'd just be happy if they got around to giving the IS the equipment they are missing at this point... I mean it's silly to balance a clan ERML against an IS MLas... it would be easier to balance cERML vs isERML... cSSRM6 vs isSSRM6 and so forth.... Things only start to get ugly at cUAC/10/20 vs isUAC/10/20.... But once you balance Clan equipment vs the IS knock offs, then you can balance IS knock offs vs IS Low Tech.

#13847 Metus regem

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Posted 28 June 2016 - 10:19 AM

View PostCK16, on 28 June 2016 - 10:10 AM, said:

Also, some one needs to pitch Russ a DWF-P based off the DWF-C, center ECM slot, fixed JJ's, LA and RA missles mounts.....thing could add some life to the DWF in a FW setting in some circumstances.



Why? Clans look down on ECM, as it is not "honourable" to use electronic war fare....Posted Image

Just one of the few many silly things in Clan Lore....

#13848 CK16

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Posted 28 June 2016 - 10:27 AM

Well, if we did not have to worry about dishonorable LRM lobbing from behind cover, then maybe we would not need ECM! :P

Edited by CK16, 28 June 2016 - 10:27 AM.


#13849 Pariah Devalis

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Posted 28 June 2016 - 10:30 AM

View PostMetus regem, on 28 June 2016 - 10:19 AM, said:



Why? Clans look down on ECM, as it is not "honourable" to use electronic war fare....Posted Image

Just one of the few many silly things in Clan Lore....



Why? Why why why why why why why WHY do people keep saying that? I have read all the BT novels (until the Dark Age, because brain cancer inducing writing and plot). Read through most of the Clan related TROs and booklets. At no point did I ever see a mention that the Clans "look down" on ECM.

ECM is a tool, just like a mech is a tool. Just like how a gun is a tool. There is no loss of honor using a tool to get your job done. There's a difference between being honorable and being stupid and the Clans are well aware of that. Especially if your enemies also utilize similar technology and have similar tools at their disposal.

Edited by Pariah Devalis, 28 June 2016 - 10:30 AM.


#13850 Metus regem

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Posted 28 June 2016 - 10:46 AM

View PostPariah Devalis, on 28 June 2016 - 10:30 AM, said:



Why? Why why why why why why why WHY do people keep saying that? I have read all the BT novels (until the Dark Age, because brain cancer inducing writing and plot). Read through most of the Clan related TROs and booklets. At no point did I ever see a mention that the Clans "look down" on ECM.

ECM is a tool, just like a mech is a tool. Just like how a gun is a tool. There is no loss of honor using a tool to get your job done. There's a difference between being honorable and being stupid and the Clans are well aware of that. Especially if your enemies also utilize similar technology and have similar tools at their disposal.



I can't remember where I read it, but I do remember reading it.. some time around when TRO 3050 came out or shortly there after. It was done as a way to explain why they didn't mount much ECM in their mechs, even with having access to it. So there is precedent for what I said, even if it is stupid. Sadly, a lot of Clans took "honourable" to mean being stupid, just look at the invasion of the IS...

For example, this is a report that I had a character give to the SaKahn CGB during a clan campagin...

Spoiler


Sadly that character died during the campaign... but he did well, made it to Galaxy Commander, even managed to take down a Ghost Bear during the Clawing ritual.

#13851 Pariah Devalis

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Posted 28 June 2016 - 10:54 AM

View PostMetus regem, on 28 June 2016 - 10:46 AM, said:



I can't remember where I read it, but I do remember reading it.. some time around when TRO 3050 came out or shortly there after. It was done as a way to explain why they didn't mount much ECM in their mechs, even with having access to it. So there is precedent for what I said, even if it is stupid. Sadly, a lot of Clans took "honourable" to mean being stupid, just look at the invasion of the IS...

For example, this is a report that I had a character give to the SaKahn CGB during a clan campagin...

Spoiler


Sadly that character died during the campaign... but he did well, made it to Galaxy Commander, even managed to take down a Ghost Bear during the Clawing ritual.


Yet... it is in direct conflict with the preponderance of ECM in Clan access. Shadow Cat, Arctic Cheetah, Mist Lynx, Fire Moth, Black Lanner, Hellbringer, and Dire Wolf run a wide range of access among the clans (less so the Shadow Cat, but otherwise...). Far more access than the IS at the time of invasion, and a far higher percentage of mechs available from the overall pool of mechs in the tech line. And that is just with the Omnimechs. I am far less versed in the battlemech options available to the Clans of the time period.

#13852 Virlutris

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Posted 28 June 2016 - 10:57 AM

View PostOdanan, on 28 June 2016 - 08:58 AM, said:

Yes, this certainly will be a great mech in MWO, when it comes. I'm very curious about how Alex Iglesias will do it too.

Unfortunately, most variants are future tech, so it might take a while.


Spot-check:

What am I missing? Only one of the four variants I see listed at the Sarna link indicates FutureTech. (The -3, with Heavy Lasers)

One out of four variants doesn't seem to constitute "most." Is there another resource I'm missing here? Mech Factory again, perhaps?

#13853 Juodas Varnas

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Posted 28 June 2016 - 10:58 AM

View PostPariah Devalis, on 28 June 2016 - 10:54 AM, said:


Yet... it is in direct conflict with the preponderance of ECM in Clan access. Shadow Cat, Arctic Cheetah, Mist Lynx, Fire Moth, Black Lanner, Hellbringer, and Dire Wolf run a wide range of access among the clans (less so the Shadow Cat, but otherwise...). Far more access than the IS at the time of invasion, and a far higher percentage of mechs available from the overall pool of mechs in the tech line. And that is just with the Omnimechs. I am far less versed in the battlemech options available to the Clans of the time period.

Clanners are hypocrites.

No big shock here.

#13854 Odanan

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Posted 28 June 2016 - 03:19 PM

View PostVirlutris, on 28 June 2016 - 10:57 AM, said:

Spot-check:

What am I missing? Only one of the four variants I see listed at the Sarna link indicates FutureTech. (The -3, with Heavy Lasers)

One out of four variants doesn't seem to constitute "most." Is there another resource I'm missing here? Mech Factory again, perhaps?

Are we looking at the same URL?

Rifleman IIC: OK

Rifleman IIC 2: OK

Rifleman IIC 3: futuretech (heavy lasers)

Rifleman IIC 4: futuretech (ATMs)

Rifleman IIC 5: futuretech (Improved Jump Jets)

Rifleman IIC 6: futuretech (HAG)

Rifleman IIC 7: futuretech (Heavy Lasers and Plasma Cannons)

Rifleman IIC 8: futuretech (AP Gauss Rifle)

#13855 Pariah Devalis

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Posted 28 June 2016 - 03:21 PM

View PostOdanan, on 28 June 2016 - 03:19 PM, said:

Are we looking at the same URL?

Rifleman IIC: OK

Rifleman IIC 2: OK

Rifleman IIC 3: futuretech (heavy lasers)

Rifleman IIC 4: futuretech (ATMs)

Rifleman IIC 5: futuretech (Improved Jump Jets)

Rifleman IIC 6: futuretech (HAG)

Rifleman IIC 7: futuretech (Heavy Lasers and Plasma Cannons)

Rifleman IIC 8: futuretech (AP Gauss Rifle)



The mech you quoted regarding was the Black Python, though.

#13856 Odanan

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Posted 28 June 2016 - 03:21 PM

Oh, you are talking about the Black Python! My bad.

Yes, only 1 out of 4 has futuretech.

#13857 Virlutris

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Posted 28 June 2016 - 03:30 PM

View PostVirlutris, on 28 June 2016 - 08:51 AM, said:

Not that we need a 4th ClanTech 75-tonner (battlemech, granted), but what about the Black Python:

http://www.sarna.net...k_Python_(Viper)

Seems fun :D

View PostOdanan, on 28 June 2016 - 03:19 PM, said:

Are we looking at the same URL?

Rifleman IIC: OK

Rifleman IIC 2: OK

Rifleman IIC 3: futuretech (heavy lasers)

Rifleman IIC 4: futuretech (ATMs)

Rifleman IIC 5: futuretech (Improved Jump Jets)

Rifleman IIC 6: futuretech (HAG)

Rifleman IIC 7: futuretech (Heavy Lasers and Plasma Cannons)

Rifleman IIC 8: futuretech (AP Gauss Rifle)


Nope, different URLs. ;)

Pariah picked it up though. GG.

#13858 ShadowbaneX

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Posted 29 June 2016 - 11:53 AM

Since the Concept art page hasn't been updated since the Resistance pack (and is missing the clan mechs) is there a place where one could go to find all the concept art in one place? Or are the missing images scattered throughout all the sale/package pages?

#13859 Bishop Steiner

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Posted 29 June 2016 - 12:53 PM

Fan art section. Repaint thread, though I wish they'd update it to have all the templates in the OP

#13860 ShadowbaneX

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Posted 29 June 2016 - 04:27 PM

Thanks Bishop. There's more there, a lot more than the Concept Art page, but yeah, doesn't look like it's been updated since 2015.





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