20517 replies to this topic

[CK16]

Linebacker would be good at the (gen) Blitz

I am still hopeful we get a surprise and it's the Nova Cat or something lol

[Pariah Devalis]

So much call for the IIC version mechs. Yet every single one of them, all of them suffer timeline tech blockage. I can see PGI modifying or inventing one or two variants, but this new 5 + hero thing makes them all incredibly unlikely until we have heavy lasers and ATMs.

[CK16]

Pariah Devalis, on 28 June 2016 - 09:54 AM, said:

So much call for the IIC version mechs. Yet every single one of them, all of them suffer timeline tech blockage. I can see PGI modifying or inventing one or two variants, but this new 5 + hero thing makes them all incredibly unlikely until we have heavy lasers and ATMs.

Been saying that for awhile, but hardly anyone wanted to listen to crazy ole CK here, cause it was some how related to Mk II and tech/time jump

Edited by CK16, 28 June 2016 - 10:16 AM.

[CK16]

Also, some one needs to pitch Russ a DWF-P based off the DWF-C, center ECM slot, fixed JJ's, LA and RA missles mounts.....thing could add some life to the DWF in a FW setting in some circumstances.

[Metus regem]

CK16, on 28 June 2016 - 09:57 AM, said:

Been saying that for awhile, but hardly anyone wanted to listen to cray ole CK here, cause it was some how related to Mk II and tech/time jump

No, it was more that we got tired of listening to one poor example of a eugenics program sample that shall remain nameless well full on crazy stalker girl over PGI for the Mk. II, to the point that if you simply said, "I hope it's everything you want it to be, but I don't care for it." put you on their enemy list.

Me? I'm all for more goodies, but I know that those goodies will upset what passes for (im)balance around here... I'd just be happy if they got around to giving the IS the equipment they are missing at this point... I mean it's silly to balance a clan ERML against an IS MLas... it would be easier to balance cERML vs isERML... cSSRM6 vs isSSRM6 and so forth.... Things only start to get ugly at cUAC/10/20 vs isUAC/10/20.... But once you balance Clan equipment vs the IS knock offs, then you can balance IS knock offs vs IS Low Tech.

[Metus regem]

CK16, on 28 June 2016 - 10:10 AM, said:

Also, some one needs to pitch Russ a DWF-P based off the DWF-C, center ECM slot, fixed JJ's, LA and RA missles mounts.....thing could add some life to the DWF in a FW setting in some circumstances.

Why? Clans look down on ECM, as it is not "honourable" to use electronic war fare....

Just one of the few many silly things in Clan Lore....

[CK16]

Well, if we did not have to worry about dishonorable LRM lobbing from behind cover, then maybe we would not need ECM!

Edited by CK16, 28 June 2016 - 10:27 AM.

[Pariah Devalis]

Metus regem, on 28 June 2016 - 10:19 AM, said:

Why? Clans look down on ECM, as it is not "honourable" to use electronic war fare....

Just one of the few many silly things in Clan Lore....

Why? Why why why why why why why WHY do people keep saying that? I have read all the BT novels (until the Dark Age, because brain cancer inducing writing and plot). Read through most of the Clan related TROs and booklets. At no point did I ever see a mention that the Clans "look down" on ECM.

ECM is a tool, just like a mech is a tool. Just like how a gun is a tool. There is no loss of honor using a tool to get your job done. There's a difference between being honorable and being stupid and the Clans are well aware of that. Especially if your enemies also utilize similar technology and have similar tools at their disposal.

Edited by Pariah Devalis, 28 June 2016 - 10:30 AM.

[Metus regem]

Pariah Devalis, on 28 June 2016 - 10:30 AM, said:

Why? Why why why why why why why WHY do people keep saying that? I have read all the BT novels (until the Dark Age, because brain cancer inducing writing and plot). Read through most of the Clan related TROs and booklets. At no point did I ever see a mention that the Clans "look down" on ECM.

ECM is a tool, just like a mech is a tool. Just like how a gun is a tool. There is no loss of honor using a tool to get your job done. There's a difference between being honorable and being stupid and the Clans are well aware of that. Especially if your enemies also utilize similar technology and have similar tools at their disposal.

I can't remember where I read it, but I do remember reading it.. some time around when TRO 3050 came out or shortly there after. It was done as a way to explain why they didn't mount much ECM in their mechs, even with having access to it. So there is precedent for what I said, even if it is stupid. Sadly, a lot of Clans took "honourable" to mean being stupid, just look at the invasion of the IS...

For example, this is a report that I had a character give to the SaKahn CGB during a clan campagin...

Spoiler

Projected outcome of Operation Revival

SaKhan Theresa DelVillar, this memo is being brought to your attention, based on information found in the Dragoon reports on the military readiness of the Inner Sphere. Based on information that is readily available it is the educated opinion of this warrior of Clan Ghost Bear, that we are not in a position to launch a full scale invasion of the Inner Sphere, it is also the opinion of this warrior that the IlKhan was being less than truthful about the state of readiness in the Inner Sphere, as well as the troop strength of the forces found there.

Please see attached appendices A, B and C, as they contain detailed reports on the last known positions, troop numbers as well as troop and equipment qualities at the time of the last Dragoon report.

Looking at the attached information, it is clear that the front line forces for the Draconis Combine and Federated Commonwealth will not be in a position to combat our forces for several months, if not years based on current jump ship technology, as well as jump ship numbers found in the Inner Sphere. Based on our projected troop and combat movement speeds, the Free Rasalhague Republic will fall inside of two years, as we are likely to encounter stiffer resistance the closer we come to Rasalhague. During this time, there is an extremely strong possibility that the Federated Commonwealth will have had the time to move the best units they possess into direct line with our forces, forcing Clan Ghost Bear to commit stronger forces to combat these units, or commit more troops and equipment against these units, forcing us to noticeably narrow our engagement zone.

Please see attached appendices E and F, as they contained reports based on projected out comes of our practice of Zellbringen against the total warfare that is practiced in the Inner Sphere, as well as projected out comes after conquering a world of the Inner Sphere through Zellbringen.

As our forces have for a few hundred years now practiced a ritualized version of warfare where we try to do battle through the smallest force possible, and the result is we either win or lose the object in question through the result of combat, our forces will be under prepared for combat with Inner Sphere forces, that have during this time, kept in practice with total warfare as practiced by our ancestors of the Star League Defence Force (SLDF). Though our equipment is vastly superior, we do not practice a combined arms approach to warfare, nor do we practice focusing our fire on a target. These are things that are practiced, regularly in the Inner Sphere, and will likely lead to less than desirable outcomes for our forces, once they learn of how to exploit our practice of Zellbrinen.

Based on all information available, we will likely reach Terra, yet once we do, it is very unlikely that the Houses of the Inner Sphere will readily accept the rule of the IlClan, and will likely continue to resist our forces, until we reach a point where our forces are simply too small to maintain control over the Inner Sphere. It should also be noted, that there is a very strong possibility that the Houses of the Inner Sphere, once Rasalhague falls could band together to create a new Star League, leaving us in an interesting position, to be fighting against the very thing we are coming to create. Should that happen, it is very likely within 10 years we would see at least one Clan destroyed, as it is only a matter of time before the Inner Sphere locates the home worlds, once that happens, we will not be able to stop them, should the commit a strong enough force to taking them. Thus it is the recommendation of this Star Captain that we should look at the possibility of integration with one or more Houses of the Inner Sphere, for our survival and future, based on all information I would recommend Rasalhague or the Federated Commonwealth, due to similar cultural ties.

Star Captain Arjak DelVillar
12^th Bear Chevaliers
Beta Galaxy

Sadly that character died during the campaign... but he did well, made it to Galaxy Commander, even managed to take down a Ghost Bear during the Clawing ritual.

[Pariah Devalis]

Metus regem, on 28 June 2016 - 10:46 AM, said:

I can't remember where I read it, but I do remember reading it.. some time around when TRO 3050 came out or shortly there after. It was done as a way to explain why they didn't mount much ECM in their mechs, even with having access to it. So there is precedent for what I said, even if it is stupid. Sadly, a lot of Clans took "honourable" to mean being stupid, just look at the invasion of the IS...

For example, this is a report that I had a character give to the SaKahn CGB during a clan campagin...

Spoiler

Projected outcome of Operation Revival

SaKhan Theresa DelVillar, this memo is being brought to your attention, based on information found in the Dragoon reports on the military readiness of the Inner Sphere. Based on information that is readily available it is the educated opinion of this warrior of Clan Ghost Bear, that we are not in a position to launch a full scale invasion of the Inner Sphere, it is also the opinion of this warrior that the IlKhan was being less than truthful about the state of readiness in the Inner Sphere, as well as the troop strength of the forces found there.

Please see attached appendices A, B and C, as they contain detailed reports on the last known positions, troop numbers as well as troop and equipment qualities at the time of the last Dragoon report.

Looking at the attached information, it is clear that the front line forces for the Draconis Combine and Federated Commonwealth will not be in a position to combat our forces for several months, if not years based on current jump ship technology, as well as jump ship numbers found in the Inner Sphere. Based on our projected troop and combat movement speeds, the Free Rasalhague Republic will fall inside of two years, as we are likely to encounter stiffer resistance the closer we come to Rasalhague. During this time, there is an extremely strong possibility that the Federated Commonwealth will have had the time to move the best units they possess into direct line with our forces, forcing Clan Ghost Bear to commit stronger forces to combat these units, or commit more troops and equipment against these units, forcing us to noticeably narrow our engagement zone.

Please see attached appendices E and F, as they contained reports based on projected out comes of our practice of Zellbringen against the total warfare that is practiced in the Inner Sphere, as well as projected out comes after conquering a world of the Inner Sphere through Zellbringen.

As our forces have for a few hundred years now practiced a ritualized version of warfare where we try to do battle through the smallest force possible, and the result is we either win or lose the object in question through the result of combat, our forces will be under prepared for combat with Inner Sphere forces, that have during this time, kept in practice with total warfare as practiced by our ancestors of the Star League Defence Force (SLDF). Though our equipment is vastly superior, we do not practice a combined arms approach to warfare, nor do we practice focusing our fire on a target. These are things that are practiced, regularly in the Inner Sphere, and will likely lead to less than desirable outcomes for our forces, once they learn of how to exploit our practice of Zellbrinen.

Based on all information available, we will likely reach Terra, yet once we do, it is very unlikely that the Houses of the Inner Sphere will readily accept the rule of the IlClan, and will likely continue to resist our forces, until we reach a point where our forces are simply too small to maintain control over the Inner Sphere. It should also be noted, that there is a very strong possibility that the Houses of the Inner Sphere, once Rasalhague falls could band together to create a new Star League, leaving us in an interesting position, to be fighting against the very thing we are coming to create. Should that happen, it is very likely within 10 years we would see at least one Clan destroyed, as it is only a matter of time before the Inner Sphere locates the home worlds, once that happens, we will not be able to stop them, should the commit a strong enough force to taking them. Thus it is the recommendation of this Star Captain that we should look at the possibility of integration with one or more Houses of the Inner Sphere, for our survival and future, based on all information I would recommend Rasalhague or the Federated Commonwealth, due to similar cultural ties.

Star Captain Arjak DelVillar
12^th Bear Chevaliers
Beta Galaxy

Sadly that character died during the campaign... but he did well, made it to Galaxy Commander, even managed to take down a Ghost Bear during the Clawing ritual.

Yet... it is in direct conflict with the preponderance of ECM in Clan access. Shadow Cat, Arctic Cheetah, Mist Lynx, Fire Moth, Black Lanner, Hellbringer, and Dire Wolf run a wide range of access among the clans (less so the Shadow Cat, but otherwise...). Far more access than the IS at the time of invasion, and a far higher percentage of mechs available from the overall pool of mechs in the tech line. And that is just with the Omnimechs. I am far less versed in the battlemech options available to the Clans of the time period.

[Virlutris]

Odanan, on 28 June 2016 - 08:58 AM, said:

Yes, this certainly will be a great mech in MWO, when it comes. I'm very curious about how Alex Iglesias will do it too.

Unfortunately, most variants are future tech, so it might take a while.

Spot-check:

What am I missing? Only one of the four variants I see listed at the Sarna link indicates FutureTech. (The -3, with Heavy Lasers)

One out of four variants doesn't seem to constitute "most." Is there another resource I'm missing here? Mech Factory again, perhaps?

[Juodas Varnas]

Pariah Devalis, on 28 June 2016 - 10:54 AM, said:

Yet... it is in direct conflict with the preponderance of ECM in Clan access. Shadow Cat, Arctic Cheetah, Mist Lynx, Fire Moth, Black Lanner, Hellbringer, and Dire Wolf run a wide range of access among the clans (less so the Shadow Cat, but otherwise...). Far more access than the IS at the time of invasion, and a far higher percentage of mechs available from the overall pool of mechs in the tech line. And that is just with the Omnimechs. I am far less versed in the battlemech options available to the Clans of the time period.

Clanners are hypocrites.

No big shock here.

[Odanan]

Virlutris, on 28 June 2016 - 10:57 AM, said:

Spot-check:

What am I missing? Only one of the four variants I see listed at the Sarna link indicates FutureTech. (The -3, with Heavy Lasers)

One out of four variants doesn't seem to constitute "most." Is there another resource I'm missing here? Mech Factory again, perhaps?

Are we looking at the same URL?

Rifleman IIC: OK

Rifleman IIC 2: OK

Rifleman IIC 3: futuretech (heavy lasers)

Rifleman IIC 4: futuretech (ATMs)

Rifleman IIC 5: futuretech (Improved Jump Jets)

Rifleman IIC 6: futuretech (HAG)

Rifleman IIC 7: futuretech (Heavy Lasers and Plasma Cannons)

Rifleman IIC 8: futuretech (AP Gauss Rifle)

[Pariah Devalis]

Odanan, on 28 June 2016 - 03:19 PM, said:

Are we looking at the same URL?

Rifleman IIC: OK

Rifleman IIC 2: OK

Rifleman IIC 3: futuretech (heavy lasers)

Rifleman IIC 4: futuretech (ATMs)

Rifleman IIC 5: futuretech (Improved Jump Jets)

Rifleman IIC 6: futuretech (HAG)

Rifleman IIC 7: futuretech (Heavy Lasers and Plasma Cannons)

Rifleman IIC 8: futuretech (AP Gauss Rifle)

The mech you quoted regarding was the Black Python, though.

[Odanan]

Oh, you are talking about the Black Python! My bad.

Yes, only 1 out of 4 has futuretech.

[Virlutris]

Virlutris, on 28 June 2016 - 08:51 AM, said:

Not that we need a 4th ClanTech 75-tonner (battlemech, granted), but what about the Black Python:

http://www.sarna.net...k_Python_(Viper)

Seems fun

Odanan, on 28 June 2016 - 03:19 PM, said:

Are we looking at the same URL?

Rifleman IIC: OK

Rifleman IIC 2: OK

Rifleman IIC 3: futuretech (heavy lasers)

Rifleman IIC 4: futuretech (ATMs)

Rifleman IIC 5: futuretech (Improved Jump Jets)

Rifleman IIC 6: futuretech (HAG)

Rifleman IIC 7: futuretech (Heavy Lasers and Plasma Cannons)

Rifleman IIC 8: futuretech (AP Gauss Rifle)

Nope, different URLs.

Pariah picked it up though. GG.

[ShadowbaneX]

Since the Concept art page hasn't been updated since the Resistance pack (and is missing the clan mechs) is there a place where one could go to find all the concept art in one place? Or are the missing images scattered throughout all the sale/package pages?

[Bishop Steiner]

Fan art section. Repaint thread, though I wish they'd update it to have all the templates in the OP

[ShadowbaneX]

Thanks Bishop. There's more there, a lot more than the Concept Art page, but yeah, doesn't look like it's been updated since 2015.

[Bishop Steiner]

ShadowbaneX, on 29 June 2016 - 04:27 PM, said:

Thanks Bishop. There's more there, a lot more than the Concept Art page, but yeah, doesn't look like it's been updated since 2015.

depends how deep you go. I am pretty sure they got up thru the Huntsman in there. Also Odanan has his own template thread where he has a pretty well organized, though incomplete, stash.

As for official with MWO background...yeah they stopped that during the Jumbo Packs era.