20517 replies to this topic

[Metus regem]

Sereglach, on 15 June 2017 - 08:43 AM, said:

With the new skill tree and the ability to carry multiple artillery type consumables it would be a nice feature of the Command Console to be able to do that. PGI would just have to be very careful of certain potential abuses like being able to place a strike on incursion targets without any risk. They'd probably turn around and make any such objective objects immune to strikes for that very reason.

Therefore, while a neat idea, it'd be a little tricky to implement.

I was thinking that it would just be an inbuilt ability, as in it comes with two such "charges" so to speak that are used up-to once per type each game, with the appropriate protections in-place to prevent heavy abuse...

Requiemking, on 15 June 2017 - 08:42 AM, said:

Arty/Airstrike should be a basic function of TAG, not a consumable. As it's stands, TAG is inferior to NARC for the simple reason of NARC being fire and forget, while TAG is a facetime tool with a bright red line pointing straight back at you.

I can't begin to explain to you as to why TAG would not work with artillery.... an Air Strike sort of, if the strike is carried out using P.G.M.'s (Precision Guided Munitions)..... but again smoke is more common for C.A.S. as smoke will give the pilot an idea of the wind-age that could effect how and where the munitions land.

[Requiemking]

Metus regem, on 15 June 2017 - 09:32 AM, said:

I was thinking that it would just be an inbuilt ability, as in it comes with two such "charges" so to speak that are used up-to once per type each game, with the appropriate protections in-place to prevent heavy abuse...





I can't begin to explain to you as to why TAG would not work with artillery.... an Air Strike sort of, if the strike is carried out using P.G.M.'s (Precision Guided Munitions)..... but again smoke is more common for C.A.S. as smoke will give the pilot an idea of the wind-age that could effect how and where the munitions land.

Thats what TAG was for in TT. That's why so many Light recon mechs carried one, including the MLX-A.

[Metus regem]

Requiemking, on 15 June 2017 - 09:38 AM, said:

Thats what TAG was for in TT. That's why so many Light recon mechs carried one, including the MLX-A.

'cept TAG doesn't work for Long Tom, Sniper or Thumper artillery... It does work for Arrow IV and LRM's, as both of those would be P.G.M.'s, while the artillery units (Long Tom, Sniper and Thumper) are just normal artillery batteries.

[Requiemking]

Metus regem, on 15 June 2017 - 09:41 AM, said:

'cept TAG doesn't work for Long Tom, Sniper or Thumper artillery... It does work for Arrow IV and LRM's, as both of those would be P.G.M.'s, while the artillery units (Long Tom, Sniper and Thumper) are just normal artillery batteries.

And funny thing about Arty in MWO, we don't actually know what kind of Arty is giving us fire support. It's could be Sniper or Thumper(definitely not Long Tom), or it could be Arrow IV. To be honest, any and all of those would make sense in the context. PGI could bind Arty to TAG and explain it away as Arrow IV artillery.

[Brain Cancer]

Quote

Or just remove automatic target sharing from all mechs and bind it to C3 instead.

I find this fetish of removing the ability to see the battlefield incredibly masochistic. Besides, all I get is to share location data. I -wish- I could use that guy circling at 60m away to shoot superaccurately from 600m.

But that's actually what C3 does. The only weapon aspect we get in MWO, indirect fire is something that in TT, you don't even need a 'Mech for.

One infantry guy spotting will do.

As for TAG, it's designed specifically to work with 'Mech portable (Arrow IV) artillery, although there's also guidance options for "shell" artillery like the Long Tom.

Edited by Brain Cancer, 15 June 2017 - 12:10 PM.

[Requiemking]

Brain Cancer, on 15 June 2017 - 12:09 PM, said:

I find this fetish of removing the ability to see the battlefield incredibly masochistic. Besides, all I get is to share location data. I -wish- I could use that guy circling at 60m away to shoot superaccurately from 600m.

What you are sharing with the current system is Location data, Mech status data(damage), and loadout data. That's a lot of data, and it makes certain roles very difficult to play. Back stabber? If one enemy sees you, all enemies see you, and thus you have to pull back and wait for another opportunity, costing you matchscore and Cbills. Spotter? Again, if one person sees you, they all do, and thus you will be pursued to the ends of the earth, nearly useless to your team.

[Sereglach]

Requiemking, on 15 June 2017 - 12:14 PM, said:

What you are sharing with the current system is Location data, Mech status data(damage), and loadout data. That's a lot of data, and it makes certain roles very difficult to play. Back stabber? If one enemy sees you, all enemies see you, and thus you have to pull back and wait for another opportunity, costing you matchscore and Cbills. Spotter? Again, if one person sees you, they all do, and thus you will be pursued to the ends of the earth, nearly useless to your team.

. . . and that same thing happens in TT even without C3. It's not the function of C3; and that's why C3 will be difficult to implement IF it were ever done. PGI would need to get creative to attempt to provide something viable and unique. It's one reason I made the kind of suggestion that I did.

Despite some solid recommendations out there, they can't even get the Command Console to be viable at this time, so I don't think they're implementing C3 any time soon.

[Odanan]

Sereglach, on 15 June 2017 - 05:58 PM, said:

. . . and that same thing happens in TT even without C3. It's not the function of C3; and that's why C3 will be difficult to implement IF it were ever done. PGI would need to get creative to attempt to provide something viable and unique. It's one reason I made the kind of suggestion that I did.

Despite some solid recommendations out there, they can't even get the Command Console to be viable at this time, so I don't think they're implementing C3 any time soon.

C3 in TT helped shooting things based on the distance of the target from the C3 companion. There is no way to do that in this game except for auto-aim, which would be an abomination.

And the role of the scout is already small and underappreciated in this game, imagine if you had to take an equipment that would only work if your teammates had it too, just for sharing the most trivial data...

[Sereglach]

Odanan, on 15 June 2017 - 06:42 PM, said:

C3 in TT helped shooting things based on the distance of the target from the C3 companion. There is no way to do that in this game except for auto-aim, which would be an abomination.

And the role of the scout is already small and underappreciated in this game, imagine if you had to take an equipment that would only work if your teammates had it too, just for sharing the most trivial data...

Agreed 100%, which is why they'd need to do something like I said on the last page about implementing C3, or just remove it and replace it with other viable gear like I outlined a few examples of in the same post, HERE.

Edited by Sereglach, 15 June 2017 - 10:19 PM.

[Requiemking]

Odanan, on 15 June 2017 - 06:42 PM, said:

C3 in TT helped shooting things based on the distance of the target from the C3 companion. There is no way to do that in this game except for auto-aim, which would be an abomination.

And the role of the scout is already small and underappreciated in this game, imagine if you had to take an equipment that would only work if your teammates had it too, just for sharing the most trivial data...

Trivial? So, the ability for everyone on my side in game to know exactly where the enemy BLR-2C with a cherry red CT and a long-range poke build is trivial? I'm sorry, but thats. pretty powerful knowledge.

[Sereglach]

Requiemking, on 15 June 2017 - 10:56 PM, said:

Trivial? So, the ability for everyone on my side in game to know exactly where the enemy BLR-2C with a cherry red CT and a long-range poke build is trivial? I'm sorry, but thats. pretty powerful knowledge.

Even in TT that information IS trivial because it IS known unless ECM is blocking your opponent from having to tell you the condition of his mech(s) on the field. It's also NOT the function of C3.

IF, and that's a HUGE IF they brought C3 into MWO, PGI would need to get creative in trying to find a way to provide useful functionality. There are ZERO options for PGI to create an item that allows the furthest away mechs with C3 to have the "to-hit modifiers" of the closest mechs to the enemy when the "to-hit modifiers" of MWO are pilots' actual aiming abilities.

[Brain Cancer]

In TT, you'd know the full stats of every unit on the board if they're not hidden in some way (ie, double blind/fog of war rules). Yes, you can look at your opponent's sheets in that regard.

This is considered trivial knowhow in Battletech. C3 translated to MWO would make the Command Console headaches look like a twinge by comparison, especially since they're designed specifically for unit play, rather than individual pilots. Other than having an oversized TAG function for C3 Masters, matchmakers would have to take into account and network pickups accordingly.

Honestly, the best use would be some kind of general friendly buff depending on what's brought to the field. And it'll require an actual information warfare system to do so.

[Will9761]

Seeing how every Faction in the IS has a faction mech. I think it's time to say that the Hatamoto-Chi should be in this game.

Hatamoto-Chi is the Energy/Missile Mech
Hatamoto-Hi is all Energy
Hatamoto-Ku is Energy/Ballistic
And Daniel Sorenson's Hatamoto Chi can make a potential Hero Mech.

So I am going to say this, if the Mauler was not the Hero House Kurita deserves, but needed, then the Hatamoto-Chi can be summed up by this quote:

[Brain Cancer]

If you put the Hatamoto in, you put the Charger in with it. They share the same base chassis, after all.

That'd be an awful lot of 80-tonners, some of which would be pretty nimble fellows.

[Requiemking]

Brain Cancer, on 18 June 2017 - 08:39 PM, said:

If you put the Hatamoto in, you put the Charger in with it. They share the same base chassis, after all.

That'd be an awful lot of 80-tonners, some of which would be pretty nimble fellows.

Well, considering that at that weight bracket our choices effectively boil down to a PPC smasher/LRM boat with terribad hitboxes(Awesome), a once good agile Assault that has since been nerfed to hell and any attempt to get it a buff results in a mass triggering of PTSD(Victor), and a Brawler(Zeus).

[Brain Cancer]

I didn't call it a bad thing. The Charger has some very interesting options for it's weight class. The original is like the 3025-era Banshee: Overengined and drastically underarmed. That gives it huge amounts of room to be customized.

It has a 400 engine cap jump-capable version with at least 4E/1M that comes stock with a 400XL. It has slower mixed weapon variants. And that's BEFORE you get into the Hatamoto series.

[Pariah Devalis]

Brain Cancer, on 18 June 2017 - 09:04 PM, said:

I didn't call it a bad thing. The Charger has some very interesting options for it's weight class. The original is like the 3025-era Banshee: Overengined and drastically underarmed. That gives it huge amounts of room to be customized.

It has a 400 engine cap jump-capable version with at least 4E/1M that comes stock with a 400XL. It has slower mixed weapon variants. And that's BEFORE you get into the Hatamoto series.

And before the inevitable hardpoint boosting that battlemechs often tend to get.

[Tarogato]

My spreadsheet grows.

https://docs.google....#gid=1599258884

Spreadsheet lists mechs that are not in MWO, all their variants, engine caps, hardpoints, weapons and equipment, and marks whether mechs are appropriate for MWO or not.


Also, another sheet shows mechs already in MWO, with variants that have not been added by PGI yet. Clan mechs are complete, I'm just starting the IS variants now. Gonna be a long slog.





In the spoiler is a preview, lists all of the mechs I have added thus far:

Spoiler

Tonnage	Faction	Chassis	Type	# variants	# MWO-viable variants
20	Clan	Fire Moth	Omni	12	6
20	IS	Fireball	Battlemech	4	0
20	IS	Flea	Battlemech	7	5
20	IS	Hornet	Battlemech	4	0
20	Clan	Howler	Battlemech	3	0
20	IS	Mercury	Battlemech	6	0
20	Clan	Piranha	Battlemech	4	3
20	Clan	Snow Fox	QUADRUPED	3	0
20	IS	Stinger	Battlemech	12	7
20	Clan	Stinger IIC	Battlemech	2	0
20	IS	Thorn	Battlemech	6	4
20	IS	Wasp	Battlemech	18	5
25	Clan	Arbalest	Battlemech	3	0
25	IS	Brigand	Battlemech	11	3
25	Clan	Commando IIC	Battlemech	1	0
25	IS	Dart	Battlemech	3	0
25	Clan	Fire Falcon	Omni	8	4
25	Clan	Icestorm	Battlemech	2	0
25	Clan	Locust IIC	Battlemech	9	3
25	IS	Mongoose	Battlemech	7	4
25	IS	Nexus	Battlemech	2	0
25	IS	Nexus II	Battlemech	2	0
25	IS	Raptor	Omni	5	5
25	IS	Sling	Battlemech	2	0
25	Clan	Solitaire	Battlemech	2	0
25	IS	Tarantula	QUADRUPED	6	3
30	IS	Falcon	Battlemech	6	4
30	IS	Firefly	Battlemech	6	0
30	IS	Flashfire	Battlemech	5	0
30	IS	Hammer	Battlemech	3	3
30	Clan	Hellion	Omni	8	4
30	IS	Hermes	Battlemech	8	3
30	IS	Hitman	Battlemech	2	0
30	IS	Hussar	Battlemech	5	0
30	Clan	Incubus	Battlemech	5	3
30	IS	Killer Rabbit	Battlemech	1	0
30	Clan	Pack Hunter	Battlemech	4	3
30	IS	Revenant	QUADRUPED	6	0
30	IS	Scarabus	Battlemech	3	0
30	Clan	Urbanmech IIC	Battlemech	2	0
30	IS	Valkyrie	Battlemech	4	0
35	Clan	Arion	QUADRUPED	1	0
35	IS	Firebee	Battlemech	2	0
35	IS	Hollander	Battlemech	2	0
35	Clan	Horned Owl	Battlemech	5	4
35	Clan	Jaguar	QUADRUPED	2	0
35	IS	Kite	Battlemech	1	0
35	IS	Napoleon	Battlemech	1	0
35	IS	Ostscout	Battlemech	4	0
35	IS	Owens	Omni	9	0
35	IS	Pixie	Battlemech	1	0
35	IS	Venom	Battlemech	4	0
35	IS	Viper	Battlemech	1	0
40	Clan	Arana	QUADRUPED	1	0
40	IS	Chimera	Battlemech	3	0
40	Clan	Coyotl	Omni	2	0
40	Clan	Griffin IIC	Battlemech	8	4
40	IS	Mercury II	Battlemech	1	0
40	Clan	Phantom	Omni	8	5
40	Clan	Pouncer	Omni	10	6
40	IS	Sha Yu	Battlemech	4	0
45	IS	Antlion	QUADRUPED	1	0
45	IS	Bishamon	QUADRUPED	3	3
45	IS	Bloodhound	Battlemech	3	0
45	IS	Blue Flame	QUADRUPED	3	0
45	IS	Hellspawn	Battlemech	6	3
45	Clan	Mongrel	Omni	8	3
45	Clan	Shadow Hawk IIC	Battlemech	9	4
45	Clan	Stalking Spider II	QUADRUPED	1	0
50	IS	Blackjack	Omni	11	3
50	Clan	Crimson Langur	Omni	6	0
50	IS	Sarath	QUADRUPED	3	0
50	Clan	Stalking Spider	QUADRUPED	3	3
55	Clan	Black Lanner	Omni	8	5
55	Clan	Cyllaros	QUADRUPED	1	0
55	IS	Dervish	Battlemech	9	4
55	IS	Lightray	Battlemech	5	0
55	IS	Lynx	Battlemech	4	3
55	IS	Men Shen	Omni	9	5
55	Clan	Rabid Coyote	Battlemech	2	0
55	IS	Scorpion	QUADRUPED	10	3
55	IS	Thunder Fox	QUADRUPED	4	0
55	Clan	Vapor Eagle	Battlemech	4	4
60	IS	Argus	Battlemech	6	3
60	Clan	Boreas	QUADRUPED	5	0
60	Clan	Notos	QUADRUPED	5	0
65	Clan	Balius	QUADRUPED	7	4
65	Clan	Fire Scorpion	QUADRUPED	3	0
65	Clan	Rifleman IIC	Battlemech	8	4
65	IS	Ursa	QUADRUPED	2	0
70	IS	Avatar	Omni	13	5
70	IS	Barghest	QUADRUPED	6	0
70	Clan	Guillotine IIC	Battlemech	2	0
70	IS	White Flame	QUADRUPED	3	0
75	Clan	Black Python	Omni	4	0
75	Clan	Burrock	Battlemech	2	0
75	Clan	Harpagos	QUADRUPED	1	0
75	IS	Penetrator	Battlemech	6	3
75	IS	Thanatos	Battlemech	4	0
80	IS	Charger	Battlemech	14	5
80	IS	Goliath	QUADRUPED	16	3
80	IS	Hatamoto-Chi	Battlemech	7	3
80	IS	Hatamoto-Chi Shin	Battlemech	1	0
80	IS	Hatamoto-Godai	Battlemech	1	0
80	IS	Hatamoto-Hi	Battlemech	3	1
80	IS	Hatamoto-Kaeru	Battlemech	2	0
80	IS	Hatamoto-Kaze	Battlemech	2	0
80	IS	Hatamoto-Ku	Battlemech	2	1
80	IS	Hatamoto-Mizo	Battlemech	1	0
80	IS	Hatamoto-Suna	Battlemech	1	0
80	Clan	Phoenix Hawk IIC	Battlemech	8	4
80	IS	Thug	Battlemech	8	3
80	Clan	Warhammer IIC	Battlemech	12	4
85	Clan	Battlemaster IIC	Battlemech	1	0
85	Clan	Thunder Stallion	QUADRUPED	3	0
90	Clan	Blood Asp	Omni	8	6
90	Clan	Kingfisher	Omni	9	3
90	IS	Lich	QUADRUPED	1	0
95	IS	Sagittaire	Battlemech	4	0
95	IS	Sirocco	QUADRUPED	3	0
95	IS	Trebaruna	QUADRUPED	4	0
95	Clan	Turkina	Omni	10	6
100	Clan	Bane	Battlemech	5	3
100	IS	Fafnir	Battlemech	6	4
100	IS	Great Turtle	QUADRUPED	2	0
100	Clan	Stone Rhino	Battlemech	6	4
100	IS	Xanthos	QUADRUPED	6	0

Anything missing you want added?

[Karl Streiger]

Tarogato, on 18 June 2017 - 11:04 PM, said:

Anything missing you want added?

Rising Star - aka Legacy
Hercules
Shootist
Falconer
Jinggau/or humanoid shaped Scourge (otherwise the same mech)

Seeing some Dark age Mechs and even Quadvees - Ryoken III and Gestalt - for the extra MWLL feeling.

[Tarogato]

Karl Streiger, on 18 June 2017 - 11:15 PM, said:

Rising Star - aka Legacy
Hercules
Shootist
Falconer
Jinggau/or humanoid shaped Scourge (otherwise the same mech)

Seeing some Dark age Mechs and even Quadvees - Ryoken III and Gestalt - for the extra MWLL feeling.

Yeah, one of the first things I did was complete all of the 4-legged mechs, make sure that list is 100% complete, and it is. Even if quite a few of them are weird out of timeline transforming mechs we'll never see. =P