20517 replies to this topic

[Odanan]

This thread between announcements:

[Valdarion Silarius]

Odanan, on 12 September 2017 - 12:21 PM, said:

This thread between announcements:

Well honestly what do you expect? Not being a debbie downer here but there isn't much to discuss in anticipation for the Piranha and the Black Lanner that hasn't been already said. The future plans and announcements for the rest of 2017 that they made are not overly exciting either. Unless PGI surprises us all with the Firemoth, there is only so much you can talk about before being redundant with the game.

[Sereglach]

Arnold The Governator, on 12 September 2017 - 02:04 PM, said:

Well honestly what do you expect? Not being a debbie downer here but there isn't much to discuss in anticipation for the Piranha and the Black Lanner that hasn't been already said. The future plans and announcements for the rest of 2017 that they made are not overly exciting either. Unless PGI surprises us all with the Firemoth, there is only so much you can talk about before being redundant with the game.

Really, only so much to talk about with the game in general that hasn't already been discussed (over and over again). I agree that the roadmap for the rest of 2017 is pretty disappointing. I think that's been a big killer of conversations here, because people probably want to avoid getting all worked up and get their hopes up, like they did last year.

[Odanan]

[SuperFunkTron]

Is there any way to get access to that article online?

[FLG 01]

Odanan, on 12 September 2017 - 12:21 PM, said:

This thread between announcements:

Ironically, I am a fan of the FCCW-era because it offers a huge wealth of new Mech designs (and updated classics). But what good is that if 95% of them are flat out ignored for the 'crime' of not having been featured in a cheesy 17 year old game?

And it does not help that presentations of Mechs, no matter how good, are met with indifference by a few because they are "too obscure" (which really means absolutely nothing at all other than not having been in said game). That is certainly not a good basis for a discussion.

PGI's releases have been utterly predictable, too, with very few surprises and even fewer nice surprises like the Nightstar. Turning MWO into MW:4-reloaded has killed all exitement. It might change in the far future, many months from now, but currently the situation is more than boring. So it's no surprise that this thread is not what it was before the tech update.

Of course, you can discuss the Chimera. Meh.

Edited by FLG 01, 13 September 2017 - 03:01 PM.

[SuperFunkTron]

FLG 01, on 13 September 2017 - 02:58 PM, said:

Ironically, I am a fan of the FCCW-era because it offers a huge wealth of new Mech designs (and updated classics). But what good is that if 95% of them are flat out ignored for the 'crime' of not having been featured in a cheesy 17 year old game?

And it does not help that presentations of Mechs, no matter how good, are met with indifference by a few because they are "too obscure" (which really means absolutely nothing at all other than not having been in said game). That is certainly not a good basis for a discussion.

PGI's releases have been utterly predictable, too, with very few surprises and even fewer nice surprises like the Nightstar. Turning MWO into MW:4-reloaded has killed all exitement. It might change in the far future, many months from now, but currently the situation is more than boring. So it's no surprise that this thread is not what it was before the tech update.

Of course, you can discuss the Chimera. Meh.

Even if PGI decides to reload MW:4 right now, didn't they already reload most of 2 and 3? Granted, mechs like the Phantom and Pouncer are glaringly absent, but they using well established mechs as a starting point is far from poor form or bad idea. The clanners can talk about plenty right now from eras past as the civil war didn't really provide a whole lot for them to begin with (we've already got most of it on pre-order) so we can get back to discussing why the Phantom, Pouncer, Grendel, Fire Falcon, and Black Lanner need to be made available ASAP.

[Odanan]

SuperFunkTron, on 13 September 2017 - 05:29 PM, said:

Even if PGI decides to reload MW:4 right now, didn't they already reload most of 2 and 3?

This.

[Odanan]

Anyway, soon the MW4 mechs will end and we will have a Brave New World of possibilities (and speculation).

[FLG 01]

SuperFunkTron, on 13 September 2017 - 05:29 PM, said:

Even if PGI decides to reload MW:4 right now, didn't they already reload most of 2 and 3?

For the 100th time: the difference is that most of those Mechs were important for BattleMechs regardless of their appearance in video games. The Timberwolf e.g. was an icon long before MW:2, and that's why it was in that game.

On the other hand, the Uziel e.g. has very little relevance for BattleTech, almost zero relevance for the FCCW-era (no RAT-entry, no novel etc.), and it has nothing going for it except MW:4. Nothing at all.

That's a crucial difference. And if PGI happens to chose a Mech that is important for BattleTech which also happened to be in that game - think Fafnir, Templar or Nova Cat - I am happy. But if it is only about MW:4, and MW:4 only, it's wrong. ...and, as noted, not exiting:

Edited by FLG 01, 13 September 2017 - 09:36 PM.

[SuperFunkTron]

FLG 01, on 13 September 2017 - 09:18 PM, said:

That's a crucial difference. And if PGI happens to chose a Mech that is important for BattleTech which also happened to be in that game - think Fafnir, Templar or Nova Cat - I am happy. But if it is only about MW:4, and MW:4 only, it's wrong. ...and, as noted, not exiting:

So it was ok for them to do that for MW2 and 3? Aside from your happiness, what about all the people who were really excited about the Uziel? Are you using a hard set of documented criteria for your opinion or are you just upset because you personally didn't find it to your liking? Many complain about their favorite mechs not being in the game yet, but there are those who are content are surely playing their game without feeling the need to tear down mechs that they individually didn't care for.

Clearly there were plenty of people who were happy with the Uziel coming out because it did well in polls. In the end, nobody really cares what a few angry forum goers are saying, especially when they are constantly complaining and tearing things down.

You could try an approach like mine; Use this thread to discuss the merits of mechs that you would like to see in the game. Use objectivity and facts as a means to understand why other mechs may be a priority over the ones that you like (you don't have to like the facts, but that doesn't change them). There will be many people happy with the mechs you think are a mistake, just as there are may be a few people that are happy with you despite what most people think. Many mechs that are regularly complained about have big followings: Warhawk, Gargoyle, Ice-Ferret, Awesome, Victor...... There are people who love those mechs regardless of the meta and are satisfied with what a large group is nagging about. The last part of this advice is to TAKE A DEEP BREATH and accept that this game(you can read world too) is not revolving around you, so accept that the choices can't be all bad, especially when you are still seeing new mechs on the battliefield.

Discuss your ideas here, why you feel one of your choices is better, then consider if it meets the release goals for PGI, then discuss if it is worth it for PGI to seriously reconsider their choices. Once these more reasonable steps have been taken, utilize The Daily Whine thread for your bile and whatever you are struggling to cope with and need to get out.

[Metus regem]

SuperFunkTron, on 14 September 2017 - 05:51 AM, said:

So it was ok for them to do that for MW2 and 3? Aside from your happiness, what about all the people who were really excited about the Uziel? Are you using a hard set of documented criteria for your opinion or are you just upset because you personally didn't find it to your liking? Many complain about their favorite mechs not being in the game yet, but there are those who are content are surely playing their game without feeling the need to tear down mechs that they individually didn't care for.

Clearly there were plenty of people who were happy with the Uziel coming out because it did well in polls. In the end, nobody really cares what a few angry forum goers are saying, especially when they are constantly complaining and tearing things down.

You could try an approach like mine; Use this thread to discuss the merits of mechs that you would like to see in the game. Use objectivity and facts as a means to understand why other mechs may be a priority over the ones that you like (you don't have to like the facts, but that doesn't change them). There will be many people happy with the mechs you think are a mistake, just as there are may be a few people that are happy with you despite what most people think. Many mechs that are regularly complained about have big followings: Warhawk, Gargoyle, Ice-Ferret, Awesome, Victor...... There are people who love those mechs regardless of the meta and are satisfied with what a large group is nagging about. The last part of this advice is to TAKE A DEEP BREATH and accept that this game(you can read world too) is not revolving around you, so accept that the choices can't be all bad, especially when you are still seeing new mechs on the battliefield.

Discuss your ideas here, why you feel one of your choices is better, then consider if it meets the release goals for PGI, then discuss if it is worth it for PGI to seriously reconsider their choices. Once these more reasonable steps have been taken, utilize The Daily Whine thread for your bile and whatever you are struggling to cope with and need to get out.

We did, we talked long and deep about the mechs like the Uziel, and you know what most people that wanted it said?

1) It'll be good with quriks!
2) It was really good in MW:4 multiplayer! (when you could fit it with clan tech...)

For example, look at the Annihilator, take away it's quirks and you have something that will be quickly forgotten by most people that play.

All FLG and myself are doing is providing the facts about mechs like this, wondering on PGI's methodology on mech selection for inclusion, when there are much stronger candidates that wouldn't need as strong quirks to be viable. The only thing standing against those mechs were things like them not as being as high-profile in previous mech warrior games, yet they are much more prominent in lore and TT...


Lastly, if people were really happy with the Uziel, I'd see them much more in game, as it is spotting one is almost like spotting Mist Lynx these days, winch equates to seeing Bigfoot riding a unicorn....

[FLG 01]

Metus regem, on 14 September 2017 - 07:04 AM, said:

there are much stronger candidates that wouldn't need as strong quirks to be viable. The only thing standing against those mechs were things like them not as being as high-profile in previous mech warrior games, yet they are much more prominent in lore and TT...

That's in nuce what this is all about. And I do think it is a valid concern.

SuperFunkTron, on 14 September 2017 - 05:51 AM, said:

Spoiler

So it was ok for them to do that for MW2 and 3? Aside from your happiness, what about all the people who were really excited about the Uziel? Are you using a hard set of documented criteria for your opinion or are you just upset because you personally didn't find it to your liking? Many complain about their favorite mechs not being in the game yet, but there are those who are content are surely playing their game without feeling the need to tear down mechs that they individually didn't care for.

Clearly there were plenty of people who were happy with the Uziel coming out because it did well in polls. In the end, nobody really cares what a few angry forum goers are saying, especially when they are constantly complaining and tearing things down.

You could try an approach like mine; Use this thread to discuss the merits of mechs that you would like to see in the game. Use objectivity and facts as a means to understand why other mechs may be a priority over the ones that you like (you don't have to like the facts, but that doesn't change them). There will be many people happy with the mechs you think are a mistake, just as there are may be a few people that are happy with you despite what most people think. Many mechs that are regularly complained about have big followings: Warhawk, Gargoyle, Ice-Ferret, Awesome, Victor...... There are people who love those mechs regardless of the meta and are satisfied with what a large group is nagging about. The last part of this advice is to TAKE A DEEP BREATH and accept that this game(you can read world too) is not revolving around you, so accept that the choices can't be all bad, especially when you are still seeing new mechs on the battliefield.

Discuss your ideas here, why you feel one of your choices is better, then consider if it meets the release goals for PGI, then discuss if it is worth it for PGI to seriously reconsider their choices. Once these more reasonable steps have been taken, utilize The Daily Whine thread for your bile and whatever you are struggling to cope with and need to get out.

There is objectively quantifiable data: The Uziel's near irrelevance in the FCCW-era e.g. is a hard fact, backed up by the absence in the many RATs, novels and stories. Also the Uziel's poor performance in MWO is also a hard fact, due to its geometry, hitboxes, and hardpoints. So without much going for it in terms of lore and performance, all it has is MW:4-nostalgia, and that is a fact as well.

I have also been frequently pointing to better Mechs, both in terms of lore and performance, like the Falconer, and I have supported the Nightstar all the way. And I still stand by the point that lore and performance as more objective criteria are to be preferred; and that is the sole reason why many Mechs that happened to be in MW:3 and MW:2 shine. Again, I do not even remotely care about what video game a Mech has been before.
So if we take the example of the Uziel and the Falconer, we see two polar opposites: one important in BattleTech and (likely) powerful in MWO, other ... not. One was in MW:4 and the other not. I do not think it is helpful to ignore more objective criteria like performance, regardless of the reasons for such ignorance.

And seeing how quickly the Uziel-population (of unknown size!) died in the actual game, I do not think you can discard that point so easily. It needs to be addressed openly.

Of course, I generally prefer sober factual-based manner discussions rather than insinuations about my supposed lack of maturity or other intentionally hurtful ad hominem attacks. I personally would be far more interested in lore on the Uziel in the FCCW that I might have missed, or why it is truly a gem in game, or why I should not care for lore and performance in a P2P BattleTech-game. It certainly is not that many people are enjoying their Uziel, because it is a virtually extinct Mech.

Edited by FLG 01, 14 September 2017 - 07:43 AM.

[Odanan]

Metus regem, on 14 September 2017 - 07:04 AM, said:

Lastly, if people were really happy with the Uziel, I'd see them much more in game, as it is spotting one is almost like spotting Mist Lynx these days, winch equates to seeing Bigfoot riding a unicorn....

Hey, there are a lot of Mist Lynxes in the field these days!

[Metus regem]

Odanan, on 14 September 2017 - 08:23 AM, said:

Hey, there are a lot of Mist Lynxes in the field these days!

Perhaps I should edit it to read before the mass MG pods became available...

[FLG 01]

The Loyalty Mechs...
https://mwomercs.com...-mech-loadouts/

...not what I would have chosen in most cases, but some interesting choices nonetheless. They all add a little to the chassis. My favourite is the Linebacker with JJ, that's really what I miss when playing this Mech (even if it may not be the most effective configuration).

Edited by FLG 01, 14 September 2017 - 11:23 AM.

[Odanan]

FLG 01, on 14 September 2017 - 11:22 AM, said:

The Loyalty Mechs...
https://mwomercs.com...-mech-loadouts/

...not what I would have chosen in most cases, but some interesting choices nonetheless. They all add a little to the chassis. My favourite is the Linebacker with JJ, that's really what I miss when playing this Mech (even if it may not be the most effective configuration).

Victor 9A1!

Sadly I'm not qualifying for any top-tier reward...

[Odanan]

Kit Fox with ECM in the other arm!! Can I mount 2 and set one in "counter" and the other in "disrupt"?

[Metus regem]

Odanan, on 14 September 2017 - 11:26 AM, said:

Victor 9A1!

Sadly I'm not qualifying for any top-tier reward...

Well the Victory has nice paint at least.

[Odanan]

Metus regem, on 14 September 2017 - 11:47 AM, said:

Well the Victory has nice paint at least.

It has indeed... (calculating how much I would need to spend to get it)