20517 replies to this topic

[Virlutris]

If they can ever get clear of legal stuff, the Crusader's going to have something for everybody,

OldTek, NuTek, lots of lore.

/simplehopes

[FLG 01]

Marauder3D, on 29 December 2017 - 10:45 AM, said:

My problem with the Argus is we already have the Rifleman at 60 tons, which is surprisingly fun (no missile hardpoints, I know). Also the Rifleman gets bonus points for being a classic, and an excellent iteration by Alex Iglesias.

My problem with the Chimera is too long to list. Wonky hitboxes, anemic loadout, 40 tons to boot. We have a good Assassin (at the moment, pre-nerf....) and a weak Cicada in that space right now.

I know, its a downer, but I have no love for the MW4 mechs. I wish they were never made canon, they are so fugly and nasty, as a group.

Now, since we are talking Civil War, the Fafnir and Templar (and to a lesser extant, Hauptman) just scream Civil War and have faction flavor. A 55 ton Omni Men Shen could be fun, too. Even with IS-XL. But I digress.....

While I agree, I have to say - in all fairness - some of the MW:4-originals make sense. The Argus e.g. is very much what I would expect from the AFFS, i.e. a Davion-version of the Dragon which perfectly fits the AFFS doctrins.
The Argus also has some interesting variants I can see working: -6F with the AC/20 in the arm and -5D with MASC. I would almost be tempted to buy them... Compared to the Chimera it is a blessing. But then, compared to the Chimera most Mechs look like Death Strikes.

I also played MW:4 and I feel now the way I felt back then, those Mechs are video game additions just like the Roughneck or Sun Spider. They are not my beloved classics. I know others have different feelings, especially if MW:4 was their first taste of BattleTech. Good for them, they got their beloved Mechs.
Now everyone should acknowledge that BattleTech is a lot more than this one video game, and that many MW:4-originals objectively have serious problems in MWO. Completing the MW:4-originals stands in the way of good IS Mechs, perhaps not in case of the Argus but surely when it comes to the Chimera.

[Bishop Steiner]

Marauder3D, on 29 December 2017 - 10:45 AM, said:

My problem with the Argus is we already have the Rifleman at 60 tons, which is surprisingly fun (no missile hardpoints, I know). Also the Rifleman gets bonus points for being a classic, and an excellent iteration by Alex Iglesias.

My problem with the Chimera is too long to list. Wonky hitboxes, anemic loadout, 40 tons to boot. We have a good Assassin (at the moment, pre-nerf....) and a weak Cicada in that space right now.

I know, its a downer, but I have no love for the MW4 mechs. I wish they were never made canon, they are so fugly and nasty, as a group.

Now, since we are talking Civil War, the Fafnir and Templar (and to a lesser extant, Hauptman) just scream Civil War and have faction flavor. A 55 ton Omni Men Shen could be fun, too. Even with IS-XL. But I digress.....

Fafnir is a MW4 mech, IIRC........

Also we pretty much are repeating at any weight class now. Funny you call the MW4 mechs ugly though, then go to one of the poster boys for derp fugliness... the Men Shen.

[FLG 01]

Bishop Steiner, on 29 December 2017 - 05:45 PM, said:

Fafnir is a MW4 mech, IIRC........

It was featured in MW:4, but it was not made for MW:4 and later added to BT (unlike Uziel, Chimera etc.).
The Fafnir first appeared in the Field Manual: Lyran Alliance.

[Tordin]

FLG 01, on 29 December 2017 - 08:57 AM, said:

The Fafnir is needed because it is important in the lore, and it probably would be a capable Mech, too (also, it is not an MW:4-original).
The Argus might turn out alright in MWO although I don't expect miracles from a 60t Mech.
The Chimera would easily be one of the worst Mechs, in need of massive quirks to achieve mediocrity.

As far as the MW:4-squad is concerned, it royally screwed the IS. Uziel, Thanatos, Hellspawn, and Osiris are at best mediocre but more often just bad. And what made most of them bad (hitboxes and hardpoints) is exactly what will make the Chimera bad.

The IS MW:4-originals had their chance and failed miserably. Time to move on.

Agreed. However adding the Flea. Its essential, since the Wolfs Dragoons brought it back, like with a ton of those things. Also appeared in MW4. Around the Civil War era.

Focused on speed and firepower, the lightly armored Flea was an extremely rare sight until the arrival of the Wolf's Dragoons mercenary unit, with the design experiencing a revival as an inexpensive recon and anti-personnel militia 'Mech.^[7][8]

Initially called the Trooper when it was introduced as the Free Worlds League's first light scout BattleMech in 2475, the design was so heavily flawed that it took twenty-five years before all the issues were corrected, with a new name selected to escape the bad press.^[9] The early prototype was designed by Colonel J. Marcus Llewelyn-Jaymes and his hand-picked team at Toddlette Industries in a bid to create a dedicated reconnaissance BattleMech for the FWLM.

The design was considered highly maneuverable and lightweight at the time. It utilized a basic chassis similar to their larger WorkMechs and appeared straightforward with a powerplant, gyroscope, cockpit, and other critical systems housed in an "armored-box" mounted on reinforced, armored "bird-walker" legs.

Only with the help of Llewelyn-Jaymes contacts in the military and government circles (and according to rumors, possible bribery of politicians and decision makers), the FWLM ultimately accepted delivery of the Trooper.

While it was considered easy to maintain by technicians and logisticians, it wasn't long before it gained a poor reputation among those that piloted it. Since the design was based off their WorkMechs, the design completely lacked any dedicated ejection mechanism; forcing pilots to manually exit should they become disabled.

Additionally, the legs proved to be unable to cope with heavy combat, which became apparent in various failed trials before the FWLM's Minister of Defense.
Despite these shortcomings, the League's Chief Armorer and Quartermaster General continued purchasing the prototype year after year. This ultimately led to the Trooper being selected as the very first FWLM 'Mech to be upgraded with "modern" technology in 2501 and rechristened as the FLE-4 Flea.^[10]

While produced on and off until the early Succession Wars, excessive losses of the lightly armored design led Earthwerks to switch its production line to manufacturing heavier designs. This changed with the arrival of the Wolf's Dragoons, who brought with them a large number of Fleas and reached an exclusive production arrangement with Earthwerks that resulted in the company opening new lines to replenish the Dragoons' losses in the Fourth Succession War. ^[9] With multiple lines on Asuncion, Bernardo and Victoria, after letting the Dragoons' exclusivity clause lapse, Earthwerks started selling the easy to manufacture, easy to maintain 'Mech by the DropShip load across the Inner Sphere.^[4]

Originally produced exclusively for the Dragoons until the Capellan Confederation acquired the design's blueprints via a Maskirovka raid during the 3040s, the post-Helm Memory Core FLE-17 variant is based on the older FLE-15 model. Since the Dragoons used the Flea in a recon role more than an antipersonnel 'Mech, Earthwerks conceived a new design by incorporating recovered technology. Retaining the design's maximum speed of 97.2 km/h, the addition of an Endo Steel chassis frees up weight for a MASC system that allows the 'Mech's speed to be pushed up to 129.6 km/h in short bursts. The increase of speed is required to ensure survival on the modern battlefield, as the FLE-17 is only clad in a pitiful three tons of Livingston Ceramics armor plating.^[4][8]

Once the FLE-17 plan's were captured and the Dragoons' contract clause lapsed, Earthwerks began producing the new design almost exclusively for the Confederation until 3053, which saw use within their numerous militias.
It was rarely seen among any of the other Great Houses' military. Some sightings however did appear after on the mercenary market with Dragoon serial numbers, which gave some credibility to reports of Wannamaker's Widowmakers operating an extensive salvage operation on Outreach. With the Confederation's later advances in stealth technology and light weaponry, the Flea became a logical test platform for new prototypes. These performed well, which encouraged Earthwerks to refit several older models.^[4]

Mention it. I think I will be bonkers and solo the campaign in a Flea with a single bombast laser! But only if it gets released, to celebrate.

Edited by Tordin, 29 December 2017 - 06:04 PM.

[Marauder3D]

Bishop Steiner, on 29 December 2017 - 05:45 PM, said:

Fafnir is a MW4 mech, IIRC........

Also we pretty much are repeating at any weight class now. Funny you call the MW4 mechs ugly though, then go to one of the poster boys for derp fugliness... the Men Shen.

Fafnir was a FM:Steiner special mech, and I would expect you to know better, Mr Steiner. ������

Edited by Marauder3D, 29 December 2017 - 08:51 PM.

[FupDup]

Marauder3D, on 29 December 2017 - 10:45 AM, said:

My problem with the Argus is we already have the Rifleman at 60 tons, which is surprisingly fun (no missile hardpoints, I know). Also the Rifleman gets bonus points for being a classic, and an excellent iteration by Alex Iglesias.

The Argus is needed because the IS 60-ton lineup lacks a chicken walker. This is extremely important to fix.

[Bishop Steiner]

Tordin, on 29 December 2017 - 06:03 PM, said:

Agreed. However adding the Flea. Its essential, since the Wolfs Dragoons brought it back, like with a ton of those things. Also appeared in MW4. Around the Civil War era.

Focused on speed and firepower, the lightly armored Flea was an extremely rare sight until the arrival of the Wolf's Dragoons mercenary unit, with the design experiencing a revival as an inexpensive recon and anti-personnel militia 'Mech.^[7][8]

Initially called the Trooper when it was introduced as the Free Worlds League's first light scout BattleMech in 2475, the design was so heavily flawed that it took twenty-five years before all the issues were corrected, with a new name selected to escape the bad press.^[9] The early prototype was designed by Colonel J. Marcus Llewelyn-Jaymes and his hand-picked team at Toddlette Industries in a bid to create a dedicated reconnaissance BattleMech for the FWLM.

The design was considered highly maneuverable and lightweight at the time. It utilized a basic chassis similar to their larger WorkMechs and appeared straightforward with a powerplant, gyroscope, cockpit, and other critical systems housed in an "armored-box" mounted on reinforced, armored "bird-walker" legs.

Only with the help of Llewelyn-Jaymes contacts in the military and government circles (and according to rumors, possible bribery of politicians and decision makers), the FWLM ultimately accepted delivery of the Trooper.

While it was considered easy to maintain by technicians and logisticians, it wasn't long before it gained a poor reputation among those that piloted it. Since the design was based off their WorkMechs, the design completely lacked any dedicated ejection mechanism; forcing pilots to manually exit should they become disabled.

Additionally, the legs proved to be unable to cope with heavy combat, which became apparent in various failed trials before the FWLM's Minister of Defense.
Despite these shortcomings, the League's Chief Armorer and Quartermaster General continued purchasing the prototype year after year. This ultimately led to the Trooper being selected as the very first FWLM 'Mech to be upgraded with "modern" technology in 2501 and rechristened as the FLE-4 Flea.^[10]

While produced on and off until the early Succession Wars, excessive losses of the lightly armored design led Earthwerks to switch its production line to manufacturing heavier designs. This changed with the arrival of the Wolf's Dragoons, who brought with them a large number of Fleas and reached an exclusive production arrangement with Earthwerks that resulted in the company opening new lines to replenish the Dragoons' losses in the Fourth Succession War. ^[9] With multiple lines on Asuncion, Bernardo and Victoria, after letting the Dragoons' exclusivity clause lapse, Earthwerks started selling the easy to manufacture, easy to maintain 'Mech by the DropShip load across the Inner Sphere.^[4]

Originally produced exclusively for the Dragoons until the Capellan Confederation acquired the design's blueprints via a Maskirovka raid during the 3040s, the post-Helm Memory Core FLE-17 variant is based on the older FLE-15 model. Since the Dragoons used the Flea in a recon role more than an antipersonnel 'Mech, Earthwerks conceived a new design by incorporating recovered technology. Retaining the design's maximum speed of 97.2 km/h, the addition of an Endo Steel chassis frees up weight for a MASC system that allows the 'Mech's speed to be pushed up to 129.6 km/h in short bursts. The increase of speed is required to ensure survival on the modern battlefield, as the FLE-17 is only clad in a pitiful three tons of Livingston Ceramics armor plating.^[4][8]

Once the FLE-17 plan's were captured and the Dragoons' contract clause lapsed, Earthwerks began producing the new design almost exclusively for the Confederation until 3053, which saw use within their numerous militias.
It was rarely seen among any of the other Great Houses' military. Some sightings however did appear after on the mercenary market with Dragoon serial numbers, which gave some credibility to reports of Wannamaker's Widowmakers operating an extensive salvage operation on Outreach. With the Confederation's later advances in stealth technology and light weaponry, the Flea became a logical test platform for new prototypes. These performed well, which encouraged Earthwerks to refit several older models.^[4]

Mention it. I think I will be bonkers and solo the campaign in a Flea with a single bombast laser! But only if it gets released, to celebrate.

What does the Flea add?

Not much. I'm not against it, but unless it's a real flea and not that homely MW4 wannabe thing that we had concept art for... MEH

Marauder3D, on 29 December 2017 - 07:17 PM, said:

Fafnir was a FM:Steiner special mech, and I would expect you to know better, Mr Steiner. ������

it's a boring mech, so actually can't say I care... and the FMs were a mediocre series at best, thus not something I paid massive attention to

[Ovion]

The problem is, the Flea is a poor mans Locust, and was designed as such, irl and in lore.
With the real thing, and the changes to how MASC works, plus the lower engine cap, it serves no real purpose in MWO, other than as more (worse) Locust variants... and Russ has said that it's dead to him and PGI because of this.

The Fafnir doesn't bring anything especially exciting, but it's an iconic and imposing mech, it'd certainly sell if nothing else.

[Gasoline]

Bishop Steiner, on 29 December 2017 - 09:27 PM, said:

it's a boring mech, so actually can't say I care... and the FMs were a mediocre series at best, thus not something I paid massive attention to

The Fafnir might actually be quite iconic and I can see why people like it, but it has some serious issues.

There're 2 variants available which share the same exact hardpoints. Unless Alex pulls out some miracle it will have gigantic side torsos which will make the Thanatos look like a decent mech.

But let's take a look what we got recently regarding IS mechs.

Uziel - Medium
Annihilator - Assault
Osiris - Light
Nightstar - Assault
Thanatos - Heavy
Hellspawn - Medium

I sense we can safely say that it won't be another medium or assault. Most likely it'll be a light.

[Zergling]

PGI has a bias towards releasing heavy and assault mechs though, because they sell better.

[Odanan]

Gasoline, on 30 December 2017 - 02:40 AM, said:

The Fafnir might actually be quite iconic and I can see why people like it, but it has some serious issues.

There're 2 variants available which share the same exact hardpoints. Unless Alex pulls out some miracle it will have gigantic side torsos which will make the Thanatos look like a decent mech.

But let's take a look what we got recently regarding IS mechs.

Uziel - Medium
Annihilator - Assault
Osiris - Light
Nightstar - Assault
Thanatos - Heavy
Hellspawn - Medium

I sense we can safely say that it won't be another medium or assault. Most likely it'll be a light.

More lights are needed, and if there was a good MW4 option (why don't you jump, Flea, why????), I would bet in an IS light next.
Since it would make sense to finish the MW4 series, I expect the Fafnir, Argus and Chimera coming next.
IDK, new year new possibilities. I hope PGI will surprise us with a Wasp.

[Jay Leon Hart]

FupDup, on 29 December 2017 - 07:20 PM, said:

The Argus is needed because the IS 60-ton lineup lacks a chicken walker. This is extremely important to fix.

Then surely we'd want the Black Hawk-KU instead. It's a 2-for-1 choice, 60 ton chicken walker & IS OmniMech.

[Juodas Varnas]

Jay Leon Hart, on 30 December 2017 - 04:01 AM, said:

Then surely we'd want the Black Hawk-KU instead. It's a 2-for-1 choice, 60 ton chicken walker & IS OmniMech.

Why would anyone want that stinkin' clan knock-off mech instead of a glorious IS original Argus?

[Jay Leon Hart]

Juodas Varnas, on 30 December 2017 - 04:09 AM, said:

Why would anyone want that stinkin' clan knock-off mech instead of a glorious IS original Argus?

Up to 14E on an IS Heavy?
Versus;
4D - 2B, 1M, 2E
2D - 1E, 2M
5D - 3E, 2M, MASC
6F - 2E, 1M, 1B
8DX - 1B, 1M, 2E
3D - 3B, 1M, 2E

Even with hardpoint inflation, the BHKU-O can bring so many lasers compared to the mix of weapons available to the Argus.
The Dragon & Rifleman can be Ballistics better or equal to the Argus.
The Quickdraw can do Missiles better than the Argus.
The Black Hawk-KU could do Energy better than the Argus.

[Gasoline]

Jay Leon Hart, on 30 December 2017 - 04:19 AM, said:

Up to 14E on an IS Heavy?

I know where you come from, but as tempting as that sounds, there is next to no practical use for 14 energy hardpoints on a IS heavy.

IS laser vomit with ER Smalls or some such doesn't work like the clan Executioner or Nova. Clan ER Smalls do 5 damage compared to IS 3.25. Pontential alpha of 14 ER Smalls is 45.5 damage, while 11 cERSL do 55.

[The Basilisk]

Gasoline, on 30 December 2017 - 02:40 AM, said:

The Fafnir might actually be quite iconic and I can see why people like it, but it has some serious issues.

There're 2 variants available which share the same exact hardpoints. Unless Alex pulls out some miracle it will have gigantic side torsos which will make the Thanatos look like a decent mech.

But let's take a look what we got recently regarding IS mechs.

Uziel - Medium
Annihilator - Assault
Osiris - Light
Nightstar - Assault
Thanatos - Heavy
Hellspawn - Medium

I sense we can safely say that it won't be another medium or assault. Most likely it'll be a light.

A light....both factions (since there are only clan and inner sphere left what is royaly stupid in the times of civil war) are a bit underrepresented in that matter.
And there are indeed some interesting candidates left to be introduced into this game.

Strictly featuring Mechs that only use available Tech at least in primary config (since pgi makes their own configs anyway) and only mechs that could be realized without braking the magic 170kph wall or the no quads due to no inverse kinematics rule.

35T:
-- Falconhawk
Light striker and one of the slower energy based lights but honestly in a duelist environment like solaris who gives a sh... and a well played Wolfhound or Panther can be quite deadly
-- Hollander
because GAUSS
-- NightHawk
like the Falconhawk energy based and not the fastest in its trade..its a matter of taste
-- Spector
A stealthy energy based light scout
-- Stiletto
light chickenwalker missile thrower/ supporter
-- Talon
quite fast sniper mech
-- Venom
Based on the spider and quite lackluster

30T:
-- Anubis
A light lurmer
-- Battlehawk
An other slow light with (for TT) astonishing firepower, bugsquasher, toadhunter
-- Falcon
A premium Starleague alternative for the venerable Wasp and Stinger Scout Mechs
-- Firefly
A chickenwalker reintroduced by Wolfs Dragoons armed with lasers missiles and electronics
-- Hammer
House Marik Battlemech with quite interesting and different Variants....honestly one of my favorite lights to be added due to the large variety of possible builds
-- Hermes
An ages old Scout mech with Spider like armament and speed but without JJ and more electronics
-- Hitman
A dedicated Spotter Mech with lots of electronics and oneside wonder weapons (3 lasers one arm...good idea...not)
-- Hussar
An inverse Chicken walker mech...with a large central laser gun and ridiculous speed and big Ballistics as well as EWF options variants. Oddball but flat low profile + high speed and a big gun....
-- Jackal
A light sniper mech with few variants too smal leggs and too big torso
-- Razorback
A light diggiwalker with a big laser quad MGs and few legal variants
-- Valkyrie
THE Davion light mech. Armed with a combo of a single laser and a single big missile laucher and lackluster speed it would most likely fare quite poor in MWO.

25T:
-- Brigand
A Pirate produced Mech light mech with 4 lasers and jumpcapability, it excells at nothing but has no obviously cripling downs either
-- Dart
fast lightly armed humanoid with few variants that carries lasers
-- Duan Gung
a fast light with missiles and lasers that has the same roots and vaguely familiar appearance as the Koshi/MistLynx
-- Eagle
a slowish Marik scout/sniper mech with some jumpcapabilitys and longrange lasers
-- Mongoose
Ages old digiwalker, but longtimes the fastest existing battlemech with surprising firepower 4 lasers at 130kph in its standart variant.
-- Nexus
Fast starleague offspring harrasser Mech with 5 Lasers and AMS

20T:
-- Flea
A locust alternative with less speed and more firepower
-- Hornet
Urban recon mech and dedicated slowpoke...not as slow as the urbie but still slow for a 20T mech
-- Kabuto
Fast light striker with Streaks few variants
-- Stinger
THE light classic Battlemech in my eyes....it was my first one *swipeawaysometears*
Laser and some MGs, averange speed and some jets
Also there sh..loads of variants with all kinds of weapons that could be juryrigged to it
-- Wasp
THE OTHER light Battlemech oldest jumpcapable fully developed Battlemech and in myriads of variants to be found all over the IS with all kinds of light weapons that could be mounted

[Jay Leon Hart]

Gasoline, on 30 December 2017 - 05:49 AM, said:

I know where you come from, but as tempting as that sounds, there is next to no practical use for 14 energy hardpoints on a IS heavy.

IS laser vomit with ER Smalls or some such doesn't work like the clan Executioner or Nova. Clan ER Smalls do 5 damage compared to IS 3.25. Pontential alpha of 14 ER Smalls is 45.5 damage, while 11 cERSL do 55.

Perhaps, but at least it adds something, whereas the Argus doesn't add anything, except for that one variant with MASC.

[Jay Leon Hart]

The Basilisk, on 30 December 2017 - 06:03 AM, said:

35T:
-- Hollander
because GAUSS
-- Stiletto
light chickenwalker missile thrower/ supporter

30T:
-- Anubis
A light lurmer
-- Hammer
House Marik Battlemech with quite interesting and different Variants....honestly one of my favorite lights to be added due to the large variety of possible builds
-- Hussar
An inverse Chicken walker mech...with a large central laser gun and ridiculous speed and big Ballistics as well as EWF options variants. Oddball but flat low profile + high speed and a big gun....
-- Jackal
A light sniper mech with few variants too smal leggs and too big torso
-- Razorback
A light diggiwalker with a big laser quad MGs and few legal variants

25T:
-- Brigand
A Pirate produced Mech light mech with 4 lasers and jumpcapability, it excells at nothing but has no obviously cripling downs either
-- Nexus
Fast starleague offspring harrasser Mech with 5 Lasers and AMS

Any of those, please

[Virlutris]

The Basilisk, on 30 December 2017 - 06:03 AM, said:

A light....both factions (since there are only clan and inner sphere left what is royaly stupid in the times of civil war) are a bit underrepresented in that matter.
And there are indeed some interesting candidates left to be introduced into this game.

Strictly featuring Mechs that only use available Tech at least in primary config (since pgi makes their own configs anyway) and only mechs that could be realized without braking the magic 170kph wall or the no quads due to no inverse kinematics rule.

35T:
-- Falconhawk
Light striker and one of the slower energy based lights but honestly in a duelist environment like solaris who gives a sh... and a well played Wolfhound or Panther can be quite deadly
-- Hollander
because GAUSS
-- NightHawk
like the Falconhawk energy based and not the fastest in its trade..its a matter of taste
-- Spector
A stealthy energy based light scout
-- Stiletto
light chickenwalker missile thrower/ supporter
-- Talon
quite fast sniper mech
-- Venom
Based on the spider and quite lackluster

30T:
-- Anubis
A light lurmer
-- Battlehawk
An other slow light with (for TT) astonishing firepower, bugsquasher, toadhunter
-- Falcon
A premium Starleague alternative for the venerable Wasp and Stinger Scout Mechs
-- Firefly
A chickenwalker reintroduced by Wolfs Dragoons armed with lasers missiles and electronics
-- Hammer
House Marik Battlemech with quite interesting and different Variants....honestly one of my favorite lights to be added due to the large variety of possible builds
-- Hermes
An ages old Scout mech with Spider like armament and speed but without JJ and more electronics
-- Hitman
A dedicated Spotter Mech with lots of electronics and oneside wonder weapons (3 lasers one arm...good idea...not)
-- Hussar
An inverse Chicken walker mech...with a large central laser gun and ridiculous speed and big Ballistics as well as EWF options variants. Oddball but flat low profile + high speed and a big gun....
-- Jackal
A light sniper mech with few variants too smal leggs and too big torso
-- Razorback
A light diggiwalker with a big laser quad MGs and few legal variants
-- Valkyrie
THE Davion light mech. Armed with a combo of a single laser and a single big missile laucher and lackluster speed it would most likely fare quite poor in MWO.

25T:
-- Brigand
A Pirate produced Mech light mech with 4 lasers and jumpcapability, it excells at nothing but has no obviously cripling downs either
-- Dart
fast lightly armed humanoid with few variants that carries lasers
-- Duan Gung
a fast light with missiles and lasers that has the same roots and vaguely familiar appearance as the Koshi/MistLynx
-- Eagle
a slowish Marik scout/sniper mech with some jumpcapabilitys and longrange lasers
-- Mongoose
Ages old digiwalker, but longtimes the fastest existing battlemech with surprising firepower 4 lasers at 130kph in its standart variant.
-- Nexus
Fast starleague offspring harrasser Mech with 5 Lasers and AMS

20T:
-- Flea
A locust alternative with less speed and more firepower
-- Hornet
Urban recon mech and dedicated slowpoke...not as slow as the urbie but still slow for a 20T mech
-- Kabuto
Fast light striker with Streaks few variants
-- Stinger
THE light classic Battlemech in my eyes....it was my first one *swipeawaysometears*
Laser and some MGs, averange speed and some jets
Also there sh..loads of variants with all kinds of weapons that could be juryrigged to it
-- Wasp
THE OTHER light Battlemech oldest jumpcapable fully developed Battlemech and in myriads of variants to be found all over the IS with all kinds of light weapons that could be mounted

You know what sure would be nice? Another 25-tonner.

Know what else? Settling this legal business so they can release Unseen freely, because that would allow the Wasp, Stinger and Valkyrie.