20517 replies to this topic

[Gasoline]

Jay Leon Hart, on 30 December 2017 - 08:28 AM, said:

My attempt at a BHKU-O template, with all the locked equipment, placed where I hope it's supposed to be.

Pretty close. It seems to have 2 DHS in each ST.

[Jay Leon Hart]

Gasoline, on 30 December 2017 - 09:07 AM, said:

Pretty close. It seems to have 2 DHS in each ST.

Thanks! DHS location & armour values tweaked.

[Edit] Hm, now I'm confused. Sarna lists the BHKU-O as having 14 DHS as standard, with the "Prime" model having an extra 2, for 16 DHS total. However, the Sarna entry only lists 14 DHS. 4 MPL, 6 ML & 2 SL comes to 15 tons, 2 tons shy of the 17 tons left over. So, does the BHKU-O "Prime" actually have 16 DHS? Your link lists "Wärmetauscher: 16 Double (32)" so I'm guessing Sarna is wrong. That would put 2 of those base 14 DHS in the engine.

What TRO do I need to go hunt for to find out about this? [/Edit]

Edited by Jay Leon Hart, 30 December 2017 - 10:05 AM.

[Odanan]

Gasoline, on 30 December 2017 - 05:49 AM, said:

I know where you come from, but as tempting as that sounds, there is next to no practical use for 14 energy hardpoints on a IS heavy.

IS laser vomit with ER Smalls or some such doesn't work like the clan Executioner or Nova. Clan ER Smalls do 5 damage compared to IS 3.25. Pontential alpha of 14 ER Smalls is 45.5 damage, while 11 cERSL do 55.

The (ghost)heat of 14 lasers would make any build impractical.

[FLG 01]

Jay Leon Hart, on 30 December 2017 - 09:57 AM, said:

what TRO do I need to go hunt for to find out about this? [/Edit]

You'd want the Record Sheets 3058 Unabridged (IS). Anyway, fixed equipment is 4 DHS (2 in the engine; 1 in each ST) and 5 JJ (2 in each leg, 1 in the CT). With full armour you have some 17 tons of podspace and 32 crits.

Odanan, on 30 December 2017 - 10:25 AM, said:

The (ghost)heat of 14 lasers would make any build impractical.

And yet far more useful than anything you'd do with a Chimera - unless you count being cannon fodder for the enemy.

Edited by FLG 01, 30 December 2017 - 10:27 AM.

[Jay Leon Hart]

FLG 01, on 30 December 2017 - 10:26 AM, said:

You'd want the Record Sheets 3058 Unabridged (IS). Anyway, fixed equipment is 4 DHS (2 in the engine; 1 in each ST) and 5 JJ (2 in each leg, 1 in the CT). With full armour you have some 17 tons of podspace and 32 crits.

Spoiler

Thankyou kindly!

[FupDup]

Odanan, on 30 December 2017 - 10:25 AM, said:

The (ghost)heat of 14 lasers would make any build impractical.

You'd probably have to use a 6/6 split using the current Spooky Heat caps.

Otherwise do something stupid like double ERLL and a crapton of ERSLs for backup.

Edited by FupDup, 30 December 2017 - 10:42 AM.

[Odanan]

The Basilisk, on 30 December 2017 - 06:03 AM, said:

30T:
-- Anubis
A light lurmer

20T:
-- Stinger
THE light classic Battlemech in my eyes....it was my first one *swipeawaysometears*
Laser and some MGs, averange speed and some jets
Also there sh..loads of variants with all kinds of weapons that could be juryrigged to it
-- Wasp
THE OTHER light Battlemech oldest jumpcapable fully developed Battlemech and in myriads of variants to be found all over the IS with all kinds of light weapons that could be mounted

These are the only light IS mechs I have any interest.
The Anubis because it looks cool and was in MechCommander 2 and the other two because they are tier 1 iconic.
I wish there was an IS jumping machinegun boat at 25 tons, but I can't see any.

I was wondering: PGI could release the Wasp and Stinger together in a double pack, at discounted prices, like $25. Those mechs would share animations and some components (mostly legs and arms) and with 6 variants (3 variants each) for the standard pack, there could be a great selection of variants of all types and techs.

[Odanan]

FLG 01, on 30 December 2017 - 10:26 AM, said:

And yet far more useful than anything you'd do with a Chimera - unless you count being cannon fodder for the enemy.

There is no comparison between the 2 mechs - they have different roles and tonnage.

Black Hawk KU is a 60 tons Nova with IS weapons that will die with the destruction of a side torso.

Chimera will live and die by it's quirks and (suspect) hitboxes. It will need 4 made-up PGI variants, but the "primary" one has the same role of the Assassin (a mech no one could call useless). I'm not saying I'm looking forward for the mech, but it would be cool to have all the MW4 family in MWO.

Edited by Odanan, 30 December 2017 - 11:28 AM.

[FupDup]

Odanan, on 30 December 2017 - 11:27 AM, said:

There is no comparison between the 2 mechs - they have different roles and tonnage.

Black Hawk KU is a 60 tons Nova with IS weapons that will die with the destruction of a side torso.

Chimera will live and die by it's quirks and (suspect) hitboxes. It will need 4 made-up PGI variants, but the "primary" one has the same role of the Assassin (a mech no one could call useless). I'm not saying I'm looking forward for the mech, but it would be cool to have all the MW4 family in MWO.

The Chimmy has a drastically different body shape though and a weird hardpoint layout, its only similarity to the Assassin is the maximum weight capacity.

And there is actually a comparison between the Chimmy and BHKU because every mech has to co-exist in the same gigantic ecosystem. They're not isolated. They all fight each other anyways.

[Jay Leon Hart]

Odanan, on 30 December 2017 - 11:27 AM, said:

I'm not saying I'm looking forward for the mech, but it would be cool to have all the MW4 family in MWO.

There are certainly 'mechs from other games I really want (2 in particular), but as a comparison, here are some of the missing 'mechs from other Mech(Word) games;

MW2 - Firemoth, Rifleman IIC, Warhammer IIC, Tarantula
MW2: Ghost Bear's Legacy - Grizzly, Horned Owl, Incubus, Naga, Phantom, Stone Rhino, Hatamoto-Chi
MW2: Mercs - Hornet, Mongoose, Battle Hawk, Clint, Sentinel, Whitworth, Wolf Trap, Grim Reaper, Bombardier, Flashman, Rakshasa, Salamander, Thug
MW3 - Owens, Firefly, Strider, Champion, Avatar, Sunder
MW3: Pirates Moon - Clint IIC
MW4 - Argus, Chimera
MW4: Black Knight - Sunder
MW4: Mercs - Flea, Owens, Hellhound, Fafnir, Hauptmann, Longbow, Templar
MC - Hollander II, Stiletto, Turkina
MC2 - Anubis, Fire Ant, Hollander, Razorback, Enfield, Men Shen, Sha Yu, Starslayer, Lao Hu, Shootist, Blood Asp
MA - Bowman, Owens
MA2 - Bowman, Raptor, Stiletto, Blood Asp, Owens, Corvis

If anything, we need more MW2 & MC2 'mechs. After the Fafnir though

Edited by Jay Leon Hart, 30 December 2017 - 11:49 AM.

[FupDup]

Jay Leon Hart, on 30 December 2017 - 11:48 AM, said:

MA - Bowman, Owens
MA2 - Bowman, Raptor, Stiletto, Blood Asp, Owens, Corvis

As a correction, the Mechassault "Bowman" isn't the same as the canon Bowman. In MA the Bowman is just a Catapult variant with different guns. The real Bowman is this guy:



Same thing goes for the Stiletto. The MA2 "Stiletto" is just a Raptor II (MA doens't have the original Raptor) with Gauss and a super Flamerthrower of some sort (different from a Flamer). The BT Stiletto is lighter in tonnage and equipped with completely different weapons:



Lastly, the MA Corvis was just a Raven variant instead of a separate mech (Mechassault did this a lot). The real Corvis is a very early precursor to the Stormcrow:

Edited by FupDup, 30 December 2017 - 12:20 PM.

[FLG 01]

Odanan, on 30 December 2017 - 11:27 AM, said:

I'm not saying I'm looking forward for the mech, but it would be cool to have all the MW4 family in MWO.

No, it would decidedly not be "cool" to have another useless PoS-Mech nobody will pilot. The 'MW:4-squad' has already provided a number of those. And I don't see the value of completing the list.
I know people did not (want to) believe me when I told them about the Uziel, and when I told them about the Hellspawn, and so on... But at least in this case everybody must see that it is a hopeless Mech without Annihilator-level quirks.

It must be pointed out that there are far, far better alternatives to it - in every weight class, including the Black Hawk-KU. After the parade of uselessness and mediocrity brought to the IS by MW:4-originals I don't want any more IS slots wasted for them - especially not the Chimera.

The BattleTech universe is rich and big, and MWO would do better if it explored all the options instead of limiting itself to a single source of - mediocre, bad, and very bad - units.

[Juodas Varnas]

FLG 01, on 30 December 2017 - 12:20 PM, said:

MWO would do better if it explored all the options

Totally agree.
Which is why we need the quadrupeds!

[Jay Leon Hart]

FupDup, on 30 December 2017 - 12:07 PM, said:

As a correction, the Mechassault "Bowman" isn't the same as the canon Bowman. In MA the Bowman is just a Catapult variant with different guns. The real Bowman is this guy:

Spoiler

Same thing goes for the Stiletto. The MA2 "Stiletto" is just a Raptor II (MA doens't have the original Raptor) with Gauss and a super Flamerthrower of some sort (different from a Flamer). The BT Stiletto is lighter in tonnage and equipped with completely different weapons:

Spoiler

Lastly, the MA Corvis was just a Raven variant instead of a separate mech (Mechassault did this a lot). The real Corvis is a very early precursor to the Stormcrow:

Spoiler

Yeah, I remember the double-dipping of chassis, I just have a fondness for the Stiletto & Corvis, so decided to keep them in the list Bowman was an added bonus.

Spoiler

Quote

It is important to note that several 'Mechs are simply renamed variants of other 'Mechs. The original 'Mech type, in the event that both names exist as their own 'Mechs in canon, will be listed first(example: the Bowman is a reskinned Catapult).

• Catapult / Bowman
  
• Mad Cat / Timber Wolf
  
• Thor / Summoner
  
• Loki / Hellbringer
  
• Vulture / Mad Dog
  
• Cougar / Puma
  
• Blood Asp / Star Adder
  
• Kit Fox / Uller
  
• Nova Cat / Wendigo
  
• Raptor / Stiletto
  
• Atlas / Prometheus
  
• Raven / Corvis
  
• Uziel / Belial
  
• Owens / Hackman
  
• Ragnarok / Ymir

Some of these 'Mechs are original, and may have been added to the canon after the release of this game, such as the Raptor as the Raptor II.

[Odanan]

Jay Leon Hart, on 30 December 2017 - 12:59 PM, said:

Yeah, I remember the double-dipping of chassis, I just have a fondness for the Stiletto & Corvis, so decided to keep them in the list Bowman was an added bonus.

I remember seeing those mechs in MechAssault and thinking "WTF?!"

MechAssault was like a MechWarrior for those who don't like and/or know Mechwarrior.

[Odanan]

Jay Leon Hart, on 30 December 2017 - 11:48 AM, said:

There are certainly 'mechs from other games I really want (2 in particular), but as a comparison, here are some of the missing 'mechs from other Mech(Word) games;

MW2 - Firemoth, Rifleman IIC, Warhammer IIC
MW2: Ghost Bear's Legacy - Phantom, Stone Rhino
MW4 - Argus, Chimera
MW4: Mercs - Hellhound, Fafnir, Longbow
MC - Turkina
MC2 - Anubis, Men Shen, Blood Asp
MA2 - Raptor

Those are the mechs I have some interest.

Firemoth is an essential Clan mech only delayed by technical problems.
Rifleman IIC will be the Rifleman/JagerMech of the Clans. (and I loved playing with it in MW2)
Argus looks cool.
Hellhound I want just to make canon the MW4's design.
Blood Asp is a metamech that will come anyway (most likely the very next Clan assault)

Not in any Mech game, but in the top of my list, the Wasp and the Crusader.

[Tordin]

Jay Leon Hart, on 30 December 2017 - 11:48 AM, said:

MC2 - Anubis, Fire Ant, Hollander, Razorback, Enfield, Men Shen, Sha Yu, Starslayer, Lao Hu, Shootist, Blood Asp

If anything, we need more MW2 & MC2 'mechs. After the Fafnir though

You might know this but still. That one, the Fire Ant is actually the Hero Flea. It always struck me the odd way why they just didnt call it Flea instead of Fire Ant...

[Jay Leon Hart]

Tordin, on 30 December 2017 - 03:34 PM, said:

You might know this but still. That one, the Fire Ant is actually the Hero Flea. It always struck me the odd way why they just didnt call it Flea instead of Fire Ant...

Oh, I thought it was the 15 ton version. Turns out that's the FLE-14.

[Virlutris]

Odanan, on 30 December 2017 - 02:01 PM, said:

Those are the mechs I have some interest.

Firemoth is an essential Clan mech only delayed by technical problems.
Rifleman IIC will be the Rifleman/JagerMech of the Clans. (and I loved playing with it in MW2)
Argus looks cool.
Hellhound I want just to make canon the MW4's design.
Blood Asp is a metamech that will come anyway (most likely the very next Clan assault)

Not in any Mech game, but in the top of my list, the Wasp and the Crusader.

Firemoth is delayed only by an unwillingness to employ the technical tools available to overcome the issues bandied about as an excuse for not working to introduce it.

This is a well-ground axe for me. It can be done (see my sig), it will still be the fastest mech in the game, which is supposed to be its schtick. Granted, it's not plaid-speed stupidfast under the solution I'd propose, but so what?

I'd rather have it at the old Commando speed limit, than not have it because of a petulant insistance that we can't do anything that will result in it not being able to run a billion miles-an-hour.

Edited by Virlutris, 30 December 2017 - 04:53 PM.

[Odanan]

Virlutris, on 30 December 2017 - 04:46 PM, said:

Firemoth is delayed only by an unwillingness to employ the technical tools available to overcome the issues bandied about as an excuse for not working to introduce it.

This is a well-ground axe for me. It can be done (see my sig), it will still be the fastest mech in the game, which is supposed to be its schtick. Granted, it's not plaid-speed stupidfast under the solution I'd propose, but so what?

I'd rather have it at the old Commando speed limit, than not have it because of a petulant insistance that we can't do anything that will result in it not being able to run a billion miles-an-hour.

If PGI removes the MASC (and gives that 1 ton to needed armor) the problem is solved. One day, if the speed limit is increased, they can add the MASC back.