20517 replies to this topic

[Metus regem]

FLG 01, on 05 January 2018 - 03:30 PM, said:

I am not a huge fan of it either, because I rarely drive assaults; though I liked it in TT.
But from where I am coming, it is just too important not to buy. It is the Steiner-Mech of the era, has a pivotal part in the history of the FCCW (and the Jihad), and it really embodies Lyran design philosophies. ...perhaps to the point of caricature, but that's kind of the spirit of the era I am afraid.

I'll probably get the base back and perhaps the Hero for it has a solid representation of the Royal Guards paint scheme. But I don't preorder anymore.

I hear ya, and if they release the Stinger / Wasp / Templar I'm likely to drop some cash too, just due to the importance of those three mechs.

[Virlutris]

Metus regem, on 05 January 2018 - 03:39 PM, said:

I hear ya, and if they release the Stinger / Wasp / Templar I'm likely to drop some cash too, just due to the importance of those three mechs.

Crusader?

[Metus regem]

Virlutris, on 05 January 2018 - 03:46 PM, said:

Crusader?

Knew I was forgetting one....

[Odanan]

Dear Santa PGI, for 2018 and 2019, I want these mechs:

1- Wasp (IS, 20 tons battlemech)
2- Fire Moth (Clan, 20 tons omnimech)
3- Crusader (IS, 65 tons battlemech)
4- Blood Asp (Clan, 90 tons omnimech)
5- Argus (IS, 60 tons battlemech)
6- Fire Falcon (Clan, 25 tons omnimech)
7- Rifleman IIC (Clan, 65 tons battlemech)
8- MW4's Hellhound (Clan, 50 tons battlemech)
9- Charger (IS, 80 tons battlemech)
10- Bane (Clan, 100 tons battlemech)

And I will never ask another mech ever again.

Edited by Odanan, 05 January 2018 - 06:38 PM.

[Virlutris]

Odanan, on 05 January 2018 - 06:00 PM, said:

Dear Santa PGI, for 2018 and 2019, I want these mechs:

1- Wasp (IS, 20 tons battlemech)
2- Fire Moth (Clan, 20 tons omnimech)
3- Crusader (IS, 65 tons battlemech)
4- Blood Asp (Clan, 90 tons omnimech)
5- Argus (IS, 60 tons battlemech)
6- Fire Falcon (Clan, 25 tons omnimech)
7- Rifleman IIC (Clan, 65 tons battlemech)
8- MW4's Hellhound (Clan, 50 tons battlemech)
9- Charger (IS, 80 tons battlemech)
10- Bane (Clan, 100 tons battlemech)

And I will never ask another mech ever.

That Fire Falcon would be really sweet.

My opinions are previously stated on the Fire Moth.

Unseens I'm good with. IICs I'm great with (even more than you listed).

Charger's had concept art since we voted for the Zeus for a mechpack back in the day. Bring it on.

I need to hit Sarna for info about a couple of those others.

[Requiemking]

Odanan, on 05 January 2018 - 06:00 PM, said:

8- MW4's Hellhound (Clan, 50 tons battlemech)

Ugh. People, when will you learn. There is a reason this mech, out of all the mechs they added for MW4, was never made canon. There is already a Hellhound. It is also known as the Conjurer. It does not matter how many excuses you make, that will never change. The reason that will never change is because the Conjurer was described as being visually close enough to the Wolverine to be identified as a Wolverine IIC by Comstar. That mech(which, by the way, looks like the unholy child of the Black Lanner and the Mad Cat MK3) is so visually different from the Wolverine that there is no way it could ever considered a Wolverine IIC.

Edited by Requiemking, 05 January 2018 - 07:07 PM.

[Metus regem]

Requiemking, on 05 January 2018 - 07:04 PM, said:

Ugh. People, when will you learn. There is a reason this mech, out of all the mechs they added for MW4, was never made canon. There is already a Hellhound. It is also known as the Conjurer. It does not matter how many excuses you make, that will never change. The reason that will never change is because the Conjurer was described as being visually close enough to the Wolverine to be identified as a Wolverine IIC by Comstar. That mech(which, by the way, looks like the unholy child of the Black Lanner and the Mad Cat MK3) is so visually different from the Wolverine that there is no way it could ever considered a Wolverine IIC.

That's why I see the MW4 Hellhound as a newly developed mech to replace clan losses post operation Bull Dog. The Clans named it Hellhound, rather than Wolverine IIC Conjurer, that by the late 3050's early 3060's were in short supply.

[Requiemking]

Metus regem, on 05 January 2018 - 07:16 PM, said:

That's why I see the MW4 Hellhound as a newly developed mech to replace clan losses post operation Bull Dog. The Clans named it Hellhound, rather than Wolverine IIC Conjurer, that by the late 3050's early 3060's were in short supply.

Except for two slight problems.

1) The Conjurer made a comeback in the 3060s starting with the Conjurer 2 variant, and continuing on till the Conjurer 5 variant.
2) The Conjurer, like many other early Clan mechs(such as the Great Wyrm and even a few IIC mechs) was relegated to obscurity with the invention of the Omnimech.

[Metus regem]

Requiemking, on 05 January 2018 - 07:25 PM, said:

Except for two slight problems.

1) The Conjurer made a comeback in the 3060s starting with the Conjurer 2 variant, and continuing on till the Conjurer 5 variant.
2) The Conjurer, like many other early Clan mechs(such as the Great Wyrm and even a few IIC mechs) was relegated to obscurity with the invention of the Omnimech.

Again true, but the Sphere Clans with the exception of Ghost Bear, lacked full manufacturing capabilities during this era. The 'Hellhound' could be used more wise as a stop gap mesure able to be quickly set up at IS manufacturing plants, then once the Conjurer 2 came online the Hellhound was phased out and sold to IS houses / Mercs.

[Requiemking]

Metus regem, on 05 January 2018 - 07:55 PM, said:

Again true, but the Sphere Clans with the exception of Ghost Bear, lacked full manufacturing capabilities during this era. The 'Hellhound' could be used more wise as a stop gap mesure able to be quickly set up at IS manufacturing plants, then once the Conjurer 2 came online the Hellhound was phased out and sold to IS houses / Mercs.

Again, doesn't add up because the creation of the Conjurer variants traces back to Clan Nova Cat who sold their soul made a deal with Clan Carbon Tuna to build new factories on Avon and Irece. The deal even had a concession from the Tunas to aid in refitting their existing Conjurers and build new ones.

[FupDup]

Why does the MW4 Hellhound even need to be connected back to the original by lore? Give it a completely new story and a new name.

[Requiemking]

FupDup, on 05 January 2018 - 08:09 PM, said:

Why does the MW4 Hellhound even need to be connected back to the original by lore? Give it a completely new story and a new name.

Because it is the Conjurer in pretty much every way that matters aside from the physical design of the stupid thing's chassis. Same engine, same loadout, same intended role. It is literally a Conjurer with different costume, hence why it was never made canon.

[FupDup]

Requiemking, on 05 January 2018 - 08:17 PM, said:

Because it is the Conjurer in pretty much every way that matters aside from the physical design of the stupid thing's chassis. Same engine, same loadout, same intended role. It is literally a Conjurer with different costume, hence why it was never made canon.

The loadout is actually pretty different.

The base Conju variant comes with LPL, 2 ERML, and 2 SSRM2. In MW4 it comes stock with an LB 10-X, 2 ERLL, and an SSRM6 (however, this loadout won't work in TT construction rules because MW4 plays with the tonnage of many things, gonna have to downgrade something in it). It also lacks the JJs that the Conju comes with. Has the option to pick ECM but doesn't have it stock.

Lastly, that "costume change" is incredibly drastic to the point that it's unrecognizable as the original unit. It's an absolutely gigantic difference that also affects its in-game role (better at ranged standoffs due to its entire payload being mounted high up instead of just some, probably squishier due to not being humanoid).

EDIT: Verified the MW4 stock loadout.

EDIT 2: Also, the MW4 description calls it a Clan Jade Falcon mech, whereas the canon Conjurer is from Clan Wolverine.

Edited by FupDup, 05 January 2018 - 09:42 PM.

[Bishop Steiner]

xVLFBERHxT, on 05 January 2018 - 02:25 PM, said:

Bishop, your honest opinion on the Fafnir? Is this an "original" Battletech mech or has the Fafir his roots in mw4?

It apparently dates back the 2e/3e House Books, but will say it was popularized thru MW4.

As for my opinion? I always liked em in MW4, but I think here it will need serious torso buffs... that said, I think it should be able to flat thrash an Annihilator.

Metus regem, on 05 January 2018 - 03:07 PM, said:

I wouldn't turn it away if someone gifted it to me, but not a fan of it, even in the TT... still I think the 6U or 6R are going to be the best versions of it....

I'm not an Assault pilot, despite the surname. That said, it's iconic, and it should fulfill it's role pretty solidly.

[xVLFBERHxT]

Trank you. That was helpfull too.

As an assault try hard, I will give her a chance.

Edited by xVLFBERHxT, 05 January 2018 - 10:47 PM.

[Gasoline]

I'm really happy for Odanan, but a little disappointed for it being another assault.

It looks really tanky for standard engine, but regrettably has no hardpoints whatsoever in it's CT other than ECM and a few with a head energy hardpoint - so nothing really worth zombie-ing around. ST are pretty huge and will most likely pop quite easy, but that was expected. Legs are huge, but have to wait for the final scale comparison. Needs some serious armor quirks on the STs.

Both the -5 and -5B look solid in stock config which might even be the optimum, maybe tweak the lasers around a bit to better sync them.

The -6U is way too hot stock. Have to wait for the quirks to either downgrade the ACs to upgrade the PPCs or keep the ACs and downgrade the PPCs to lasers.

The -5E had to be a missile boat... damn you PGI... Since it's an assault, no LRM allowed, so either quad SRM6A or MRMs. I like the SRM6A idea, but might have to downgrade the ACs again to handle the heat. Would be devastating up close tho.

The -6R is the odd horse of the bunch. 4 SNPPC sound interesting, the LB-5Xs for critting whats opened up by the PPCs, but I would most likely drop the SSRMs and leave the missile hardpoints for more heatsinks if possible. It will be hot tho.

The Hero is actually the only asymmetrical of the bunch. It's again way too hot in stock. Could drop the ERLLs for more MPLs and more heatsinks. Not quite sure yet.

One on one it will wreck Annihilators without a doubt just cause it can shield better. Just turn away 90° and your CT and the other ST is totally covered. Torso speed will be mandatory for survivability. Depending on the quirks it could be the goto 100t IS assault.

[Jay Leon Hart]

Odanan, on 05 January 2018 - 06:00 PM, said:

Dear Santa PGI, for 2018 and 2019, I want these mechs:

Hm, if I had to wish for the next 11 months...

Feb - Blood Asp - Rounds off the Piranha, Black Lanner & Sun Spider releases with an Assault. Adds an OmniMech to the 90 ton range. Potentially an OmniMech counterpart to the Mad Cat Mk II.
Mar - Raptor - Rounds off the Thanatos, Hellspawn & Fafnir release with a Light. Adds IS OkniMechs to the game. Adds another 25 tonner. Boats all the lasers.
Apr - Fire Falcon - A faster 25 tonner with good weapon options.
May - Black Hawk-KU - A larger IS Nova. Adds another OmniMech. Adds an excellent energy platform to the 60 ton range. Boats all the lasers.
Jun - Hellfire - Adds another 60 tonner. Adds a BattleMech to the 60 to range. Excellent energy boating potential.
Jul - Komodo - A smaller IS Nova. Comes with ECM. Boats all the lasers.
Aug - Vapor Eagle - Adds a BattleMech to the 55 ton range. Great weapon options.
Sep - Gunslinger - Adds another 85 tonner. Great torso mounts. Excellent ballistic + energy potential. Comes with ECM.
Oct - Canis - Adds another 80 tonner. Adds a BattleMech to the 80 ton range. Great torso mounts.
Nov - Dragon Fire - Has a good spread of ballistic + energy. Comes with ECM.
Dec - Hellion - A faster 30 tonner. Swaps ECM for MASC. Good weapon options.

Honourable mentions;
Crimson Langur, Rabid Coyote, Razorback, Huron Warrior, Men Shen, Jinggau, Bandersnatch, Falconer, Toyama, Legacy, Templar, Emperor, Cerberus, Sagittaire, Devastator, Vanquisher

[Odanan]

Requiemking, on 05 January 2018 - 07:04 PM, said:

Ugh. People, when will you learn.

This was widely discussed here. The reason we are defending the MW4's Hellhound is exactly to give Catalyst an excuse to make the 2 different designs canon.

The humanoid Wolverine IIC Conjurer is one of the most boring mechs in Battletech - that's why we want the super sexy (and considering the impact of the game, now iconic) MW4's Hellhound.

[Odanan]

Jay Leon Hart, on 06 January 2018 - 02:20 AM, said:

Hm, if I had to wish for the next 11 months...

Feb - Blood Asp - Rounds off the Piranha, Black Lanner & Sun Spider releases with an Assault. Adds an OmniMech to the 90 ton range. Potentially an OmniMech counterpart to the Mad Cat Mk II.
Mar - Raptor - Rounds off the Thanatos, Hellspawn & Fafnir release with a Light. Adds IS OkniMechs to the game. Adds another 25 tonner. Boats all the lasers.
Apr - Fire Falcon - A faster 25 tonner with good weapon options.
May - Black Hawk-KU - A larger IS Nova. Adds another OmniMech. Adds an excellent energy platform to the 60 ton range. Boats all the lasers.
Jun - Hellfire - Adds another 60 tonner. Adds a BattleMech to the 60 to range. Excellent energy boating potential.
Jul - Komodo - A smaller IS Nova. Comes with ECM. Boats all the lasers.
Aug - Vapor Eagle - Adds a BattleMech to the 55 ton range. Great weapon options.
Sep - Gunslinger - Adds another 85 tonner. Great torso mounts. Excellent ballistic + energy potential. Comes with ECM.
Oct - Canis - Adds another 80 tonner. Adds a BattleMech to the 80 ton range. Great torso mounts.
Nov - Dragon Fire - Has a good spread of ballistic + energy. Comes with ECM.
Dec - Hellion - A faster 30 tonner. Swaps ECM for MASC. Good weapon options.

2018 would be a good year...

[Jay Leon Hart]

Yeah, they may as well add the Hellhound as a canon Clan design. It wouldn't be the first time an IS name for a Clan 'mech was also used as the name for a different 'mech.

Look at the Nova AKA Black Hawk. Nova to the Clans, Black Hawk to the IS. Lead to the development of the IS OmniMech the Black Hawk-KU. Also lead to development of the Clan BattleMech the Black Hawk.

So make the Hellhound a Clan OmniMech. Done. It even mirrors the Nova/Black Hawk. Wolverine (BM) to Wolverine IIC Conjurer/Hellhound (BM) to Hellhound (OM).