20517 replies to this topic

[The Lighthouse]

Need Hollander before anything else.

[Odanan]

Marauder3D, on 22 June 2018 - 12:21 PM, said:

I suggested Project Phoenix Reboot in another thread yesterday, so obviously great minds think alike!

Since there are no more mediums, it would probably be Light/Light/Heavy/Assault or LIght/Heavy/Heavy Assault.

Perfect world for me: Wasp/Valkyrie/Crusader/Longbow

Acceptable world: Wasp/Crusader/Ostsol/Longbow

Thoughts?

Nice selection, I would be fine with any (but I think the Ostroc is a little better than the Ostsol).

[Marauder3D]

Odanan, on 22 June 2018 - 02:30 PM, said:

Nice selection, I would be fine with any (but I think the Ostroc is a little better than the Ostsol).

I'm partial to the Ostroc and Ostsol from Project Phoenix. I'm really curious to see what Shimmering Sword does with their new classics, provided he is allowed to do them by CGL.

Ostroc has a better hardpoint selection for MWO, but Ostsol might be the better mech in MW5 and HBS' BattleTech.

[FLG 01]

I would gladly take any Ost-Mech, even the Ostscout has some variants that could work in MWO. I prefer the Ostroc too, but the Ostsol is nice too. I would be interesting to see how the round shapes of the Ost-series translate to MWO and Alex's more angular art style.
Over the years there have been amazing fan redesigns of the Ost-Mechs, and the latest official art of the Ostscout looks fabulous.

Regarding the Valkyrie... I like it very much but I don't think it would be very good in MWO due to the limited hardpoints. There is only so much inflation can do. As far as the unseen Lights are concerned, Wasp and Stinger are more desirable since we have no jump capable 20t Mech (and no humanoid 20t IS Mech either).

[Sereglach]

Odanan, on 22 June 2018 - 03:49 AM, said:

So, it's officially over!
PGI said they will continue to use the "classic" designs BUT what they don't say is: "will they be able to add more Macross Unseen designs?" (namely Wasp/Stinger, Crusader, Longbow, Stone Rhino)

From the docket of the dismissal with prejudice, it's worth noting that CGL was also release into the free and clear "to avoid confusion". HG was suing CGL over all of the reimagined classics that were macross unseen. CGL had done several that hadn't been done by PGI, yet, including the Wasp, Stinger, and Valkyrie. Therefore, those classics are also in the free and clear for PGI to make their own reimagined classics of; and if those are clear then the remaining would be clear, too.

HG lost, and they lost bad. While we might not see the remaining classics in the immediate future, I'd certainly expect to see them by MW5.

[TheArisen]

The Lighthouse, on 22 June 2018 - 12:24 PM, said:

Need Hollander before anything else.

It's time to lay off the drugs man.

[Bishop Steiner]

TheArisen, on 22 June 2018 - 06:29 PM, said:

It's time to lay off the drugs man.

[Odanan]

New mech in exactly 1 week. I guess we will know how the deal between HG and PGI was settled.

If we get the Crusader = the gates are opened, the Unseen are finally free.

If we get the Argus = PGI can keep the released Unseens, but there is a chance they can't release new ones.

[Marauder3D]

Odanan, on 25 June 2018 - 09:03 AM, said:

New mech in exactly 1 week. I guess we will know how the deal between HG and PGI was settled.

If we get the Crusader = the gates are opened, the Unseen are finally free.

If we get the Argus = PGI can keep the released Unseens, but there is a chance they can't release new ones.

Do we think it is so likely that it will be a heavy mech? Last IS mech was the Vulcan, a medium. And we just got the Flea, which is a light. So probably Heavy or Assault, I guess you are right.

However, Wasp or Valkyrie would be darn welcome by me.

[Odanan]

Marauder3D, on 25 June 2018 - 09:14 AM, said:

Do we think it is so likely that it will be a heavy mech? Last IS mech was the Vulcan, a medium. And we just got the Flea, which is a light. So probably Heavy or Assault, I guess you are right.

However, Wasp or Valkyrie would be darn welcome by me.

In August, it will be 1 year the last IS heavy mech was announced. I guess it's time for a new one.

The release of the Javelin kind of made the Valkyrie unnecessary. But the Wasp, oh the Wasp. We need it.

[Ovion]

Odanan, on 25 June 2018 - 09:03 AM, said:

New mech in exactly 1 week. I guess we will know how the deal between HG and PGI was settled.

If we get the Crusader = the gates are opened, the Unseen are finally free.

If we get the Argus = PGI can keep the released Unseens, but there is a chance they can't release new ones.

Reseen.
And I don't know if we'll get one quite so soon?
Or that it'll be the crusader.

[Marauder3D]

Odanan, on 25 June 2018 - 09:27 AM, said:

In August, it will be 1 year the last IS heavy mech was announced. I guess it's time for a new one.

The release of the Javelin kind of made the Valkyrie unnecessary. But the Wasp, oh the Wasp. We need it.

You are right, but if we needed a Valk reason, it would be 2 Laser and 2 missile hardpoints at the same time on a 30 ton chassis.

Besides, the VLK is all kinds of sexy that the Jav is not, and I'm a Jav owner.

[Sereglach]

Odanan, on 25 June 2018 - 09:03 AM, said:

New mech in exactly 1 week. I guess we will know how the deal between HG and PGI was settled.

If we get the Crusader = the gates are opened, the Unseen are finally free.

If we get the Argus = PGI can keep the released Unseens, but there is a chance they can't release new ones.

Jumping to a conclusion far too quick, there. I wouldn't be surprised if remaining classics are held for MW5 to build hype. Just imagine, "MW5 will be the first MechWarrior game ever to have all of the classics!" . . . that'd be a huge selling point.

Let alone the fact that Alex was probably told to stop any and all concept art on the classics once the lawsuit hit, so expecting all the concept art (standard, special pattern, and hero pattern) to be ready and approved, with just a scant few days before a new mech announcement, is kind of absurd.

Odanan, on 25 June 2018 - 09:27 AM, said:

In August, it will be 1 year the last IS heavy mech was announced. I guess it's time for a new one.

The release of the Javelin kind of made the Valkyrie unnecessary. But the Wasp, oh the Wasp. We need it.

All of the classics would be welcome additions to MWO. To quote myself, again, from the lawsuit discussion after someone said that the remaining classics/unseen would be useless/pointless for MWO:

Sereglach, on 23 June 2018 - 09:56 PM, said:

I'm going to hope this is just sarcasm, but in the event that it's not . . . I'll give you some solid reasons for inclusion of the remaining classics, aside from the fact that quirks and chassis traits can differentiate anything.

1. The Wasp and Stinger and jumping 20 tonners . . . something neither faction has right now. There's also a great deal of build variety among their variants.
2. The Valkyrie gives the 30 ton bracket a highly agile, jumping, and missile carrying mech that also has backup weapons (not counting hero mechs).
3. You're forgetting the Crusader, which would have hardpoints that'd allow it to be an incredibly flexible chassis in a 65 ton weight class filled mostly with specialists.
4. The Longbow actually has something the Stalker doesn't have (Atlas isn't comparable as a 100 ton chassis), and that's a dedicated ballistic platform . . . something we don't have in the 85 ton bracket. The 85 and 95 ton brackets are also the least populated assault brackets; and could use more variety.
5. The Ostscout would give the IS a 35 ton mech with potential engine caps that would make it the fastest mech in the game.
6. The heavy Ost (Ostroc and Ostsol) both provide the 60 ton bracket with needed variety (currently the most sparsely populated heavy tonnage bracket) as well as more specialized energy variants vs. the jack-of-all-trades Dragon, the missile favoring Quickdraw (minus the 5K), and the ballistic favoring Rifleman (minus the 5D).
Last, and most important of all:
7. The classics are the original mechs of Battletech . . . it goes beyond nostalgia to have them brought back into Battletech. It, in essences, allows Battletech to have a great deal of its roots and origins returned to the franchise. That's not just for PGI, but CGL, HBS, and anyone else that ever wants to make anything Battletech in the future. It can and will revitalize the brand and return a great deal of strength back to its base. The publicity of this unshackling, alone, is already bringing a great deal of attention back to Battletech.

[evilauthor]

FLG 01, on 22 June 2018 - 04:02 PM, said:

Regarding the Valkyrie... I like it very much but I don't think it would be very good in MWO due to the limited hardpoints. There is only so much inflation can do.

I don't see why. There's quite a few mechs in MWO that have more hard points than have weapons in their stock loadouts. At 30 tons, the Valk is going to be far more limited by tonnage than hard points, especially if PGI gives it some extra missile hard points.

Given how people don't like LRMs in MWO, I can see the Valkyrie becoming like the Javelin. Players stuff them with SRMs or even MRMs and a heavy engine for high speed hit and run tactics rather than use them for LRM fire support.

[MeiSooHaityu]

The Lighthouse, on 22 June 2018 - 12:24 PM, said:

Need Hollander before anything else.

I think I'd rather see a Hollander II, only since it would be a tiny bit more capable/flexible.

Overall though, I would like to see a Hollander in some form in MWO. Maybe it is my old experiences in MechCommander creating some rose-tinted Nostalgia glasses for the Hollander II, but I thought it was cool in that game, and I think it would be a cool addition In this one too.

[Bishop Steiner]

MeiSooHaityu, on 25 June 2018 - 10:10 AM, said:

I think I'd rather see a Hollander II, only since it would be a tiny bit more capable/flexible.

Overall though, I would like to see a Hollander in some form in MWO. Maybe it is my old experiences in MechCommander creating some rose-tinted Nostalgia glasses for the Hollander II, but I thought it was cool in that game, and I think it would be a cool addition In this one too.

Honestly I'd rather see a Jackal. With access to Heavy PPC and better base speed I think it could actually have some degree of viability. But I admit I never liked Hollanders. either, so no nostalgia for me

[MeiSooHaityu]

Bishop Steiner, on 25 June 2018 - 10:45 AM, said:

Honestly I'd rather see a Jackal. With access to Heavy PPC and better base speed I think it could actually have some degree of viability. But I admit I never liked Hollanders. either, so no nostalgia for me

I think a lot of it comes down to having a huge canon on it's shoulder (similar to the Hunchback). It also has some unique legs and overall a bit of an endearing awkwardness to it (similar to why I like the Cataphract as well).



Also, in MechCommander, it was pretty scary when it first shows up at the beginning of the game. You have to escort an APC (I think to rescue some MechWarrior's held up in a barn), and a Hollander II shows up if you stick around too long. It has the ability to cripple or destroy your light mechs with that Gauss Rifle, so I used to try and time artillery strikes to cripple it or take it down with the hopes of salvaging it. It isn't as nice as salvaging the Madcat a mission or two later, but it still is decent early game.

There are of course better mechs, but I would still like to see a Hollander again...and in all it's Alex glory.

P.S. I have seen the PGI gun barrel meme for the Hollander, but I'd still hope that it overall would look similar to the barrel in the artwork .

Edited by MeiSooHaityu, 25 June 2018 - 11:19 AM.

[Bishop Steiner]

MeiSooHaityu, on 25 June 2018 - 11:16 AM, said:

I think a lot of it comes down to having a huge canon on it's shoulder (similar to the Hunchback). It also has some unique legs and overall a bit of an endearing awkwardness to it (similar to why I like the Cataphract as well).



Also, in MechCommander, it was pretty scary when it first shows up at the beginning of the game. You have to escort an APC (I think to rescue some MechWarrior's held up in a barn), and a Hollander II shows up if you stick around too long. It has the ability to cripple or destroy your light mechs with that Gauss Rifle, so I used to try and time artillery strikes to cripple it or take it down with the hopes of salvaging it. It isn't as nice as salvaging the Madcat a mission or two later, but it still is decent early game.

There are of course better mechs, but I would still like to see a Hollander again...and in all it's Alex glory.

P.S. I have seen the PGI gun barrel meme for the Hollander, but I'd still hope that it overall would look similar to the barrel in the artwork .

rumour has it that I too have seen the Gun Barrel meme.....

Honestly the legs have always bothered me as one more example of completely non functional legs.

[FLG 01]

The Hollander is actually quite nice in TT games (and MC, indeed). But in MWO it needs more than Annihilator-level quirks just to make it 'not terrible'.
There are so many, many better alternatives when it comes to IS lights that I don't want to waste these opportunities by releasing a hopeless Mech like the Hollander. ...all the more since the settlement of the lawsuit.

[Ovion]

I've said it before:

Quote

In my opinion, the Hollander would be salvageable without quirks by A: Hardpoint Inflation. B: Doing something interesting like releasing it as half Light, Half Medium.

This would give you something along the lines of:
BZK-F3 - (35T) Gauss Rifle (To bring it in line with the likely 3-7 hardpoints on the G1, 3-7B)
BZK-G1 - (35T) LBX10, 2ML (Probably 1-3 B, 2-4E)
BZK-F5 - (45T) Gauss Rifle, Medium Laser, SSRM2 (1-3B, 1-3E, 1-3M but not more than 7 / whatever the rest get)
BZK-F7 - (45T) Heavy Gauss Rifle (same as the F3)

Leaves 1 35T and 1 45T PGI variant for reinforcements, with the added bonus of 2 Hero variants, one for each.
Probably one would replace the Ballistic with a heavy missile of some flavour, one of each would be an energy boat
The base package of 2+2 for $20, the reinforcements of 2 for $15, then the 2 heroes for $10 and $15 a pop, to be in line with other packs.