20517 replies to this topic

[nksharp]

Less hero mechs, more maps please.

[Jack Gallows]

nksharp, on 03 February 2013 - 06:25 AM, said:

Less hero mechs, more maps please.

Seeing as the people who make the maps probably aren't the same people who do battlemech modeling, there's no reason to say you can't get both. Also, seeing as hero 'mechs make the game money, you're not going to see them slowing down with that.

[CDLord HHGD]

Not wanting to quote any one person here, and I'm voting for Zeus, but I have a concern for the Omni debate. My my own reckoning, omnis are super modifiable. Each chassis is able to take any number of loadouts, whether it be omni hardpoints or with pre-configured omni weapon pods (each including a set number of hardpoints). However, one thing I don't recall seeing ever are set variants (unless you call it the Summoner Prime, A, B, etc) because a single omni chassis is supposed to be able to reconfigure for all of those.

Having said that, I wonder how they will do the experience and elite/master leveling because if they follow the lore, nobody will need to buy 3 variants of a single chassis. The omni nature of the chassis specifically eliminates that......

[Der BruzZzler von Wiesndoof]

nksharp, on 03 February 2013 - 06:25 AM, said:

Less hero mechs, more ...

... Banshee's please.

[Odanan]

Jack Gallows, on 03 February 2013 - 05:55 AM, said:

Limiting match sizes sounds like a HORRIBLE idea for two reasons, the first being that matchmaking would have to be altered to set different size teams up if one is using Clan (making matches take longer to sync up)...but the issue there is that many I.S. players will start mixing Clan tech in throwing off the system, the second is that while the books put numerically superior forces of IS against technology superior but fewer Clan 'mechs, the reality is that if you did that here I.S. is going to wipe the floor with Clanners. The tech might be better, but good pilots in I.S. mechs are still going to royally own you if it turns out to be a numbers game, not to mention it'd be a balancing nightmare to start tweaking the game around that match size over the traditional.

Come, it's not that hard to balance by the weight.

And I really hope you can't put clan weapons in your IS mechs. That would blow any balance method possible.

Anyway, PGI have shown us that they won't make this game an arms race (by making the DHS not so good and balancing weapons).

Jack Gallows, on 03 February 2013 - 05:55 AM, said:

Also, from a player perspective I would not feel right restricting how many Clan players can play together (...)

Really? What's the big deal? You have the best mechs and tech and want to play fair?

Now IF Inner Sphere players are able to have clan mechs/weapons/equipment and still play in IS teams, this game will be ruined.

Of course all "top tier" player will have clan mechs. Clan tech have advantage in all aspects. If you think otherwise, you should forget that montrous pile of crap of MW4 and look the TT stats.
The balance can only be made by the matchmaking. Either by making clanners fight only with clanners, have smaller team or have lighter total tonnage.

Jack Gallows, on 03 February 2013 - 05:55 AM, said:

And my quick list for first 5 Clan 'mechs announced, assuming they don't change how they've been doing it... (I'd list variants but being Omni, it doesn't matter.)

1. Puma http://www.sarna.net...dder_%28Puma%29
2. Nova http://www.sarna.net...28Black_Hawk%29
3. Stormcrow http://www.sarna.net...ow_%28Ryoken%29 (this and the Nova are going to be soooo broken...)
4. Timber Wolf http://www.sarna.net...f_%28Mad_Cat%29
5. Warhawk http://www.sarna.net..._%28Masakari%29 (This is most likely going to be the Dire Wolf, though)

That's just guessing.

[Jack Gallows]

cdlord, on 03 February 2013 - 07:05 AM, said:

Not wanting to quote any one person here, and I'm voting for Zeus, but I have a concern for the Omni debate. My my own reckoning, omnis are super modifiable. Each chassis is able to take any number of loadouts, whether it be omni hardpoints or with pre-configured omni weapon pods (each including a set number of hardpoints). However, one thing I don't recall seeing ever are set variants (unless you call it the Summoner Prime, A, B, etc) because a single omni chassis is supposed to be able to reconfigure for all of those.

Having said that, I wonder how they will do the experience and elite/master leveling because if they follow the lore, nobody will need to buy 3 variants of a single chassis. The omni nature of the chassis specifically eliminates that......

Higher XP costs per level? Or make it so when you put a different omni variant on, it puts xp in that tab of that mech. Basically means they don't have to spend money to buy 3 models, which eventually leaks over to the I.S. side when we get omnis.

[Odanan]

cdlord, on 03 February 2013 - 07:05 AM, said:

Not wanting to quote any one person here, and I'm voting for Zeus, but I have a concern for the Omni debate. My my own reckoning, omnis are super modifiable. Each chassis is able to take any number of loadouts, whether it be omni hardpoints or with pre-configured omni weapon pods (each including a set number of hardpoints). However, one thing I don't recall seeing ever are set variants (unless you call it the Summoner Prime, A, B, etc) because a single omni chassis is supposed to be able to reconfigure for all of those.

There is no such thing as a omni hardpoint!!!!!!! Stop think MW4!

Jack Gallows, on 03 February 2013 - 07:56 AM, said:

Higher XP costs per level? Or make it so when you put a different omni variant on, it puts xp in that tab of that mech. Basically means they don't have to spend money to buy 3 models, which eventually leaks over to the I.S. side when we get omnis.

They need to buy every omni module set. The omni modules of the Timberwolf Prime can't mount weapons of the Timberwolf D.

[CDLord HHGD]

Jack Gallows, on 03 February 2013 - 07:56 AM, said:

Higher XP costs per level? Or make it so when you put a different omni variant on, it puts xp in that tab of that mech. Basically means they don't have to spend money to buy 3 models, which eventually leaks over to the I.S. side when we get omnis.

Perhaps if they do hardpoint pods that differentiate the summoner prime from the summoner a. This would dash a lot of people's hopes that omnis are super modifiable though. No universal hardpoints, but instead of prime pod with 2x ballistics, you get alpha pod which has 2x laser..... Be very interesting to see how they do it...

[Jack Gallows]

Odanan, on 03 February 2013 - 07:55 AM, said:

Come, it's not that hard to balance by the weight.

Which is an idea I offer later in the post.

Odanan, on 03 February 2013 - 07:55 AM, said:

And I really hope you can't put clan weapons in your IS mechs. That would blow any balance method possible.

It's most likely going to happen eventually, but it'll probably be incredibly cost prohibitive. If PGI can make money off it, they probably will.

Odanan, on 03 February 2013 - 07:55 AM, said:

Anyway, PGI have shown us that they won't make this game an arms race (by making the DHS not so good and balancing weapons).

I'm quite certain specific functions of Clan tech are going to be altered and the game balanced due to it, like the examples you list.

Odanan, on 03 February 2013 - 07:55 AM, said:

Really? What's the big deal? You have the best mechs and tech and want to play fair?

It was more from a desire to not split up friends dropping together. I also don't think Clans are going to be so amazingly OP versus I.S. pilots that a drop has to have different pilot numbers per faction.

Odanan, on 03 February 2013 - 07:55 AM, said:

Now IF Inner Sphere players are able to have clan mechs/weapons/equipment and still play in IS teams, this game will be ruined.

I still think it's going to happen, not sure I'm happy with it, but that doesn't mean it's not probably coming down the pipe if PGI can balance it.

Odanan, on 03 February 2013 - 07:55 AM, said:

Of course all "top tier" player will have clan mechs. Clan tech have advantage in all aspects. If you think otherwise, you should forget that montrous pile of crap of MW4 and look the TT stats.
The balance can only be made by the matchmaking. Either by making clanners fight only with clanners, have smaller team or have lighter total tonnage.

An idea I talked about in my post, make it so they have lighter drop weights or make per mech weight more for the value.

Odanan, on 03 February 2013 - 07:55 AM, said:

That's just guessing.

Of course it is, but that's what I'd like to see first.

Odanan, on 03 February 2013 - 07:59 AM, said:

There is no such thing as a omni hardpoint!!!!!!! Stop think MW4!

Except, their could be. That's the thing, it's possible they may go that route, none of us know if that's what they're actually going to do over a different way of handling it. It'll probably be a few omni points per variant, with a few hard coded weapons that can't change/hardpoints that don't change. Making it so you'd need to get different mechs still.

Edited by Jack Gallows, 03 February 2013 - 08:04 AM.

[CDLord HHGD]

Odanan, on 03 February 2013 - 07:59 AM, said:

There is no such thing as a omni hardpoint!!!!!!! Stop think MW4!

Isn't there a screenshot a few pages back of a bug that showed omni hardpoints? I'm sure I could go find it and re-post the image. And this is all speculation as well so no need to shout .

[Odanan]

cdlord, on 03 February 2013 - 08:00 AM, said:

Perhaps if they do hardpoint pods that differentiate the summoner prime from the summoner a. This would dash a lot of people's hopes that omnis are super modifiable though. No universal hardpoints, but instead of prime pod with 2x ballistics, you get alpha pod which has 2x laser..... Be very interesting to see how they do it...

For the sake of the MW gods, I hope they do this.

(chanting the Obliviate spell to wipe the heresy of MW4 of the memory of every living creature)

Jack Gallows, on 03 February 2013 - 08:01 AM, said:

It's most likely going to happen eventually, but it'll probably be incredibly cost prohibitive. If PGI can make money off it, they probably will.

I still think it's going to happen, not sure I'm happy with it, but that doesn't mean it's not probably coming down the pipe if PGI can balance it.

It doesn't need to happen! Not all IS mechs can mount ECM but they can mount clan weapons???

[Stingz]

Odanan, on 03 February 2013 - 08:03 AM, said:

(chanting the Obliviate spell to wipe the heresy of MW4 of the memory of every living creature)

MW4 at least didn't have AC/20 or Gauss Catapults running around, those 1 slot ballistic points kept it in check.

[Odanan]

Stingz, on 03 February 2013 - 08:06 AM, said:

MW4 at least didn't have AC/20 or Gauss Catapults running around, those 1 slot ballistic points kept it in check.

I'm sorry, I can't argue with a heretic.

(we can sort this out in the battlefield though)

Jack Gallows, on 03 February 2013 - 08:01 AM, said:

Except, their could be. That's the thing, it's possible they may go that route, none of us know if that's what they're actually going to do over a different way of handling it. It'll probably be a few omni points per variant, with a few hard coded weapons that can't change/hardpoints that don't change. Making it so you'd need to get different mechs still.

The game gains nothing with this. Just less unique variants and more powerful clan mechs.

[Odanan]

How the Clans will be handle in this game will decide the future of MWO. If handled well, at least we will have happy Clan fans. If handled bad, the game will be utterly trashed.

Anyway, I hope I can still decide if I play only against pure IS mechs.

[Anyone00]

Idea: Clan weapons on IS mechs require a module to use and Clan mechs do not have module slots.

Take following from Ask the Devs 30 into consideration:

Quote

Q: Indirect Fire Units
A: We have plans to introduce Artillery and Air Strikes into MWO this year. These will be consumable items players can equip to a module slot, and used during matchplay. Details will be forthcoming when we get close to releasing them.

Yeah, anyway, I agree withe current odds that the next mech will likely be the Banshee.
Although the Banshee would benefit considerably from knock downs and if collisions were made into a viable method of damage dealing .

Edited by Anyone00, 03 February 2013 - 09:20 AM.

[Stingz]

Anyone00, on 03 February 2013 - 09:15 AM, said:

Idea: Clan weapons on IS mechs require a module to use and Clan mechs do not have module slots.

I don't think anyone would be happy to face off Clan LRM-20 Catapults. Clan LRM launchers are lighter, and have no min range.

[Anyone00]

Stingz, on 03 February 2013 - 09:22 AM, said:

I don't think anyone would be happy to face off Clan LRM-20 Catapults. Clan LRM launchers are lighter, and have no min range.

What if took one module per one cLRM-20 so you're not facing off against A1s that can fire off a volley of 110 lrms with no minimum range?

Edited by Anyone00, 03 February 2013 - 09:35 AM.

[Stingz]

Anyone00, on 03 February 2013 - 09:29 AM, said:

What if took one module per one cLRM-20 so you're not facing off against A1s that can fire off a volley of 110 lrms with no minimum range?

Clan LRMs are like giant-Streaks (and then there's actual Streak LRMs), the current "OP ECM" can probably stop it though.

Edited by Stingz, 03 February 2013 - 09:59 AM.

[Jack Gallows]

Instead of all omni hardpoints, a mix of fixed hardpoints (IE, that one missile hardpoint has to be missiles on that variant,) make it so a few are double hardpoints. Example, maybe it's a laser AND a ballstic but not able to be a missile. You want something like that, the other variants change that up. A little more variety without making it catch all.

The idea that different variants have different hardpoints is agreeable, but it quite makes them quite a bit more like how I.S. mechs are. That's not really a totally bad thing imo, as it still gives Omni's a bit more leeway but it's not a glaring benefit over regular 'mechs (and you'd still need more then one 'mech/variant to get XP with). I never said it had to be like the MW4 hardpoint system or a varation there of, but it's not also a thing that can't be changed to be workable. I'm not saying "AMG OMNI POINTS OR NOTHING" here.

[Ens]

Thontor, on 03 February 2013 - 12:05 PM, said:

I really don't get the hate for the omni hardpoint.

MW4 did some things wrong in the mechlab.. sure.. heat sinks, ammo, equipment, etc.. none of that took up space, limiting space available for weapons..

but the hardpoints? I think MW4's hardpoints worked very well... outside the fact that they had made up numbers of slots, locations, and sizes.. they could work really well using standard critical slot system we have in MWO

the only thing I would change from MW4's hardpoints is allowing multipler smaller weapons to fit within a large hardpoint. (replacing a PPC with 3 Medium Lasers for example)

keep MWO's one weapon per hardpoint

+1

this sort of hardpoint system prevented most of the very awkward boating mechs we are seeing today

it shouldn´t be possible to boat ( for example ) PPC´s where medium lasers should fit, nor should there be gauss rifles or bigger autocannons instead of machineguns :|



b2t:

still waiting for Zeus.....
come on, bring Battlemech 20? pretty please?