20517 replies to this topic

[FupDup]

On the topic of lights I'll repost my old Hellion spreadsheet.



Since it's a 30-ton humanoid with somewhat slow speed (113.4 without MASC or tweak) it's far less likely to generate salt than something tiny and fast like the Piranha. Plus we already have good tiny/fast lights on both sides. A slower light would add more class variety (if it turned out viable, which this mech has a decent shot at being).

It also doesn't have to worry about the "look ma no hands" syndrome of the PIR/MLX/ACH because you can pack up to 6 weapons in your torso sections with the right variants (and PGI can't skip these variants because they're the only canon ones with MWO tech).

Edited by FupDup, 06 April 2019 - 11:54 AM.

[TheArisen]

How about the Solitaire?
http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Solitaire

[Valdarion Silarius]

TheArisen, on 06 April 2019 - 06:35 PM, said:

How about the Solitaire?
http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Solitaire

The Solitaire would be neat, but if they are thinking about adding it they might as well add the Firemoth instead. Both prime mechs are the same stock speed and both use MASC, and the Firemoth has more stock variants compared to the Solitaire.

[Requiemking]

Sereglach, on 06 April 2019 - 11:34 AM, said:

Truly sad, but I can't disagree with that sentiment . . . thus my rant a few pages back and reiterating the points numerous times since. It's endlessly frustrating.

What's worse is that people will start to complain how the beginning (likely the first 1/3 of the game or so) of MW5 feels repetitive with only a few light chassis and lower end mediums showing up over and over again. The reluctance and foolish backlash of a facet of the MWO community to have more lights and lower-end mediums is just going to hurt the MW IP in the long run. Those people need to get over themselves and realize that 1. we only have one life in MWO so all mechs need to be made competitive and 2. more variety across all weight classes is just healthier for the IP as a whole.

This is hardly a new issue, and it doesn't just have to do with getting new Lights. Just making life less miserable of Light pilots summons huge amounts of rage from three specific factions of the forums, who want to ensure that they get what they want, and to hell with everyone else. Sadly, these are the people who get listened to the most, hence why Lights have gotten a nerf of some kind every patch for the last four years.

Edited by Requiemking, 06 April 2019 - 08:35 PM.

[CycKath]

TheArisen, on 06 April 2019 - 06:35 PM, said:

How about the Solitaire?
http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Solitaire

Relatively late appearing 'Mech, and while MW5's focus in pre-Clan IS I'm wondering if the recent selection of Clan 'Mechs from the initial invasion like the TRO3055 IICs is front-loading for an expansion/DLC, so more likely stuff from TRO:3050 and TRO:3055 and for lights that means Dasher vs Locust IIC really.

[TheArisen]

CycKath, on 06 April 2019 - 09:00 PM, said:

Relatively late appearing 'Mech, and while MW5's focus in pre-Clan IS I'm wondering if the recent selection of Clan 'Mechs from the initial invasion like the TRO3055 IICs is front-loading for an expansion/DLC, so more likely stuff from TRO:3050 and TRO:3055 and for lights that means Dasher vs Locust IIC really.

True enough. I would add the FFalcon is a decent contender but I'm hoping for Locust IIc if it's a light just from how strong it'd be in game.

[Sereglach]

Requiemking, on 06 April 2019 - 08:34 PM, said:

This is hardly a new issue, and it doesn't just have to do with getting new Lights. Just making life less miserable of Light pilots summons huge amounts of rage from three specific factions of the forums, who want to ensure that they get what they want, and to hell with everyone else. Sadly, these are the people who get listened to the most, hence why Lights have gotten a nerf of some kind every patch for the last four years.

Oh, I know . . . believe me . . . I know the situation very intimately. The occasional rants aren't new, it's just normally I don't post them. I've been playing the game for many years now; and I've always considered myself a primarily light pilot. Sadly, just as you've pointed out, since the rescale and 2+ years of non-stop light nerfs, I've been playing more mediums than lights. It frustrates me to no end that an entire weight class is relegated to a corner of near uselessness to appease certain facets of the community. I normally just say the "I'm heavier therefore I should automatically win crowd" . . . I'm curious what you're "three factions" are . . . just the heavier weight class pilots?

[Requiemking]

Sereglach, on 06 April 2019 - 10:04 PM, said:

Oh, I know . . . believe me . . . I know the situation very intimately. The occasional rants aren't new, it's just normally I don't post them. I've been playing the game for many years now; and I've always considered myself a primarily light pilot. Sadly, just as you've pointed out, since the rescale and 2+ years of non-stop light nerfs, I've been playing more mediums than lights. It frustrates me to no end that an entire weight class is relegated to a corner of near uselessness to appease certain facets of the community. I normally just say the "I'm heavier therefore I should automatically win crowd" . . . I'm curious what you're "three factions" are . . . just the heavier weight class pilots?

Well, the one you mentioned I know as the "Assault Potato" Faction(their line of thinking is that their 30 mil Cbill tricked out Atlas should stomp the battlefield, fearing nothing save for another Assault mech). The other two are the "MW4 Grognards"(their justification is "Lights sucked in MW4 therefore Lights should suck here), and the "Skirmish Junkies"(their thing is "Combat is everything, and nothing else is allowed to matter").

[Sereglach]

Requiemking, on 06 April 2019 - 10:28 PM, said:

Well, the one you mentioned I know as the "Assault Potato" Faction(their line of thinking is that their 30 mil Cbill tricked out Atlas should stomp the battlefield, fearing nothing save for another Assault mech). The other two are the "MW4 Grognards"(their justification is "Lights sucked in MW4 therefore Lights should suck here), and the "Skirmish Junkies"(their thing is "Combat is everything, and nothing else is allowed to matter").

Yeah, that sounds about right. I'd possibly add a 4th faction of the "CBT Grognards" where, by default, Heavy and Assault mechs should always win . . . but they tend to fall within the "Assault Potato" faction.

Oh do I miss the early days when PGI's chassis balance mantra was a "Rock Paper Scissors" game of Light < Medium < Heavy < Assault < Light. Each higher weight class gave up just enough speed and agility to carry enough guns and armor to beat the next lower weight class until an Assault could just get outmaneuvered by a Light, no question. Then, if you stepped outside that band and it could get tricky with medium vs assault or light vs heavy being tossups . . . all other things equal. On a game based purely around combat, it did a great job of keeping everyone relevant.

[Odanan]

TheArisen, on 06 April 2019 - 06:35 PM, said:

How about the Solitaire?
http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Solitaire

Boring!

Also, only 2 canon variants.

[FLG 01]

Sereglach, on 06 April 2019 - 11:13 PM, said:

Yeah, that sounds about right. I'd possibly add a 4th faction of the "CBT Grognards" where, by default, Heavy and Assault mechs should always win . . . but they tend to fall within the "Assault Potato" faction.

Ironically though, the pilot is experienced and aggressive enough, an assault Mech truly is the king of the battlefield in MWO. But this class to beginners a lot, and we all know what happens if a bad pilot in an assault faces a light (which is more likely than not piloted by a dedicated and thus competent light player). There really should be a warning to new players that assaults are rather difficult to master.

Requiemking, on 06 April 2019 - 10:28 PM, said:

the "MW4 Grognards"(their justification is "Lights sucked in MW4 therefore Lights should suck here)

Yeah, they have done a lot of damage, and not only to lights but to the FCCW-era in MWO as a whole. It is poorly represented because many of the Mechs we got are largely irrelevant in the lore of that era, and they perform badly in MWO. And now those Mechs collect dust in a hangar, if that much.

[Sereglach]

FLG 01, on 07 April 2019 - 06:19 AM, said:

Ironically though, the pilot is experienced and aggressive enough, an assault Mech truly is the king of the battlefield in MWO. But this class to beginners a lot, and we all know what happens if a bad pilot in an assault faces a light (which is more likely than not piloted by a dedicated and thus competent light player). There really should be a warning to new players that assaults are rather difficult to master.

I'll certainly concede that an Assault with a good pilot is extremely difficult to beat . . . the sad part is that while Lights are (in my opinion) the most difficult to master, the Assault mastery is probably the most rewarding (average performance and literal payout) in MWO gameplay. Light mastery comes with a lot of feast-or-famine gameplay.

One of the few reasons I still run lights occasionally . . . just to make sure I'm not too rusty. I'd say Lights are probably hardest to master being the least forgiving, Assaults are second -but barely- as they're still extremely unforgiving, but then Mediums come in at a distant third, and Heavies are by far the easiest to master and most forgiving weight class. Of course, every weight class has some outliers (extremely tanky Urbie or triple-AMS support Uller, for example), but I'd say that's the trend.

It gets reflected a lot in the player numbers, too; and it's typically not long before a new Assault player grabs a Heavy, after realizing that Assaults are HARD, and that bracket continues to flood with most of the player population.

[Steel Raven]

I

Odanan, on 07 April 2019 - 01:51 AM, said:

Boring!

Also, only 2 canon variants.

Just means PGI will create 5 more variants of their own.

Personally, I rather see the Phantom first as long as they can get the hit boxes right.

[FupDup]

Steel Raven, on 07 April 2019 - 10:31 AM, said:

Personally, I rather see the Phantom first as long as they can get the hit boxes right.

The Phantom is kinda iffy. The pod space is very, very low, so really your only option is to boat a combination of small/micro lasers. On the other hand though it might actually be better than the closest comparison of the Ice Ferret because it actually has the hardpoints to boat a ton of small/micro lasers. It might end up functioning like a beefy PIR-2...or it might be a dumpster fire. Very iffy robot.

Edited by FupDup, 07 April 2019 - 12:08 PM.

[Steel Raven]

FupDup, on 07 April 2019 - 11:56 AM, said:

The Phantom is kinda iffy. The pod space is very, very low, so really your only option is to boat a combination of small/micro lasers. On the other hand though it might actually be better than the closest comparison of the Ice Ferret because it actually has the hardpoints to boat a ton of small/micro lasers. It might end up functioning like a beefy PIR-2...or it might be a dumpster fire. Very iffy robot.

True and we already have the Arctic Wolf and Viper in the 40 ton bracket.

[FLG 01]

The Phantom is for those who think the Viper has too much podspace.
I think the ECM is not hardwired, is it? That would be another ton lost since you usually would not want use it without the ECM.

[Sereglach]

Steel Raven, on 07 April 2019 - 12:27 PM, said:

True and we already have the Arctic Wolf and Viper in the 40 ton bracket.

I'd much, MUCH rather have the Griffin IIC for the 40t bracket to truly stand out against the Arctic Wolf and Viper's combat styles. The Phantom really is kind of a 40t Ice Ferret; and that style is already covered fairly well by the Viper and Arctic Wolf's Battlemech variants. Just like the IS, the Clan 40t and 45t brackets need some solid trooper chassis.

FLG 01, on 07 April 2019 - 12:30 PM, said:

I think the ECM is not hardwired, is it? That would be another ton lost since you usually would not want use it without the ECM.

Correct. The Prime has it in the RT while the F has it in the CT. That sort of makes the F the de-facto "best" CT core to build off of, if PGI were to add it . . . or some semblance thereof, since it uses a Heavy Flamer and is technically not viable currently. Without the F, though, that just means it's another Arctic Cheetah situation, where the overwhelming majority of builds will use that ST.

[Ovion]

I mean, I'd be happy with an IS 20, 25 or 85T mech... or a Clan 20, 25, 40, 45, 60 or 95T...
I'd be very, very happy with a Locust IIC.

[Odanan]

Ovion, on 08 April 2019 - 02:25 AM, said:

[img]
I mean, I'd be happy with an IS 20, 25 or 85T mech... or a Clan 20, 25, 40, 45, 60 or 95T...
I'd be very, very happy with a Locust IIC.

IS 20: Wasp
IS 25: Brigant (or even better, the Raptor)
IS 85: Longbow

Clan 20: Firemoth
Clan 25: Fire Facon
Clan 40: Coytl
Clan 95: Turkina

Include the Argus, the Crusader and the Stone Rhino and MWO is done.

Edited by Odanan, 08 April 2019 - 02:48 AM.

[Odanan]

Ok, if MWO would stop releasing new mechs by december 2019. Which would be your picks?

Mine:
- april: Firemoth
- may: Wasp
- june: Hellhound (MW4's)
- july: Crusader
- august: Stone Rhino
- september: Raptor or Argus
- october: Coyotl or Turkina
- november: Longbow
- december: Fire Falcon

/MWO