20517 replies to this topic

[Butane9000]

Strum Wealh, on 27 March 2013 - 05:44 PM, said:

But The BattleTech Engineer Encyclopedia does...

This is a neat system. Just going off the Banshee:

BNC-1E, BNC-3E, BNC-3M, BNC-3Q, BNC-3S, BNC-3MC

[Odanan]

Strum Wealh, on 27 March 2013 - 05:44 PM, said:

But The BattleTech Engineer Encyclopedia does...

I think I found a home.

(deleting all the other bookmarks)

[Odanan]

But the BNC-3MC is wrong there. It is 7 tons short. (same armor and engine of the BNC-3E, but with upgraded autocannon)

I can't find nowhere other sheet of the mech.

[Strum Wealh]

Butane9000, on 27 March 2013 - 06:37 PM, said:

This is a neat system. Just going off the Banshee:

BNC-1E, BNC-3E, BNC-3M, BNC-3Q, BNC-3S, BNC-3MC

BNC-1E is built using Primitive Tech (heavier and bulkier than Standard Tech, and not prevalent until the WoB J***d).
BNC-3MC is a -3M mod that removes several Heat Sinks and the AC/5 (and ammo) to make room for an AC/10 (and ammo) - easily done on the original -3E with the MechLab.

Odanan, on 28 March 2013 - 03:55 AM, said:

But the BNC-3MC is wrong there. It is 7 tons short. (same armor and engine of the BNC-3E, but with upgraded autocannon)

I can't find nowhere other sheet of the mech.

The actual record sheet is in Record Sheets: 3039 Unabridged (just opened it up myself, to be certain - it shows as page 261 of 500 in the PDF reader, but the page itself is unnumbered).

The odd thing is, RS:3039U actually shows only 2 tons of AC/10 ammo (rather than the 5 tons shown on BTE), but everything else on BTE is correct - movement ratings (which are determined by engine rating and tonnage), armor totals, number of HS, weapon/ammo placements (other than the 3 extra tons of AC/10 ammo shown on BTE), and BV cost (RS:3039U doesn't show the c-bill cost).

Additionally, the page styling on BTE's record sheet is different from that of the record sheet in my PDF...?

[Lonestar1771]

Zeus gives this thread two guns up!

[Sere Sudae]

It strikes me odd that the four Clan mechs listed as possibilities #17-20 are all 'IIC' variants; it seems the only likely qualities to include them are the fact they'd be easy to 'up-engineer' the art assets. There are far more iconic Clan mechs that could make the cut besides those, and since we'd be well past a year from now by the time we get around to those, closer to two in fact, we could pull some from TRO3058 to catch some mechs from the tail-end of the invasion and from Tukayyid. Another important consideration, perhaps the MOST important, is I highly doubt PGI will give us 16 Omnimechs and then 4 Clan Battlemechs afterwards. Clan Mechs #17-20 will most likely be omnimechs like the sixteen before them. I could easily see PGI making the Omnimech limtiations the core element of the Clan experience, and a big focus for the design tradeoffs against the Inner Sphere's Battlemechs, and it would not make much sense to fracture that aesthetic and functional unity.

Other potentials I'd consider for the final slot in each weight class;

LIGHT:
Piranha; because the developers want their totem mech, don't they? It'll also give us something pretty unique; a ballistic-heavy light mech. The Arctic Cheetah will be available at this time and is a Light Omnimech, satisfying that requirement.

MEDIUM:
I'll grant the Hunchie IIC may may the cut, but there's the classic Shadow Cat to consider, a mech that did appear in the Invasion towards the close (Luthien onward) and beloved by innumerable pilots. As stated above, the Skitty has the advantage of also being an omnimech, which the H-IIC isn't. It is also a scout Medium, mirroring the Inner Sphere's Cicada (In fact I had a CDA-3M that was a rickety, poorly-made Shadow Cat clone at one point). The Black Lanner comes into play a bit later (at Tukayyid) but is also a very versatile and quick Medium Omnimech that shouldn't be disregarded.

HEAVY:
Both the Ebon Jaguar and the Grizzly are well-rounded heavies that have shown in other games, though lore-wise the Grizzly isn't very favored, so I could see it being passed over.

ASSAULT:
The Supernova is a classic, but isn't an Omnimech, same with the Kodiak. TRO3058's lesser known Clan Assaults however- the Turkina and Kingfisher- are both Omnimechs. The Turkina gets the advantage because of it's stock Jump Jets (Even though Omnimechs might be able to put them on chassis that don't come with them stock)



Even if just for the sake of sparing any confusion, I don't think we'll be seeing 'IIC' models ingame for the Clans.

Edited by Steel Fox, 28 March 2013 - 12:27 PM.

[Jack Gallows]

You're going to see all Omnimechs first, Steel Fox, due to the Clans almost exclusively using them as their main line machines. Most non Omnimechs are relegated to garrison or second line forces, so I'd count all of them out until they have the big 16 done.

Edited by Jack Gallows, 28 March 2013 - 03:20 PM.

[Sere Sudae]

Jack Gallows, on 28 March 2013 - 12:39 PM, said:

You're going to see all Omnimechs first, Steel Fox, due to the Clans almost exclusively using them as their main line machines. Most non Omnimechs are relegated to garrison or second line forces, so I'd count all of them out until they have the big 16 done.

I think you misunderstand. I'm saying ALL TWENTY will be omnimechs. Again I don't think it makes much sense for the Clans to get sixteen omnimechs and then four Battlemechs considering PGI is likely to make 'WE'RE OMNI NAO' as the Clan's defining mechlab feature.

I fully agree all first 16 mechs will be the 16 TRO3050 Clan mechs, because they led the Invasion. But I think the FOLLOWING 4 may ALSO be 4 late-Invasion Omnimechs, instead of- as you say- garrison and second-line units. My issue is that the last four prospective Can mechs listed were Battlemechs (and IIC Battlemechs at that) instead of Omnimechs seen on the front lines and more recognizable and well-liked by fans.

Edited by Steel Fox, 28 March 2013 - 12:55 PM.

[Odanan]

Steel Fox, on 28 March 2013 - 12:08 PM, said:

Even if just for the sake of sparing any confusion, I don't think we'll be seeing 'IIC' models ingame for the Clans.

I think we will. And it looks like the guys who made this video think it too.

[Sere Sudae]

Odanan, on 28 March 2013 - 12:55 PM, said:

I think we will. And it looks like the guys who made this video think it too.

Personally I think they're just making a lore reference. It still makes little sense from a gameplay or mechanics cohesion perspective.

Now if they go the MW4 route- omnimechs aren't really any more 'omni' than battlemechs- sure, we could see them without there being any issue. I'm figuring on that not being the case however.

[Belorion]

Jack Gallows, on 28 March 2013 - 12:39 PM, said:

You're going to see all Omnimechs first, Steel Fox, due to the Clans almost exclusively using them as their main line machines. Most non Omnimechs are relegated to garrison or second line forces, so I'd count all of them out until they have the big 16 done.

I am going to have to disagree with you on the simple fact that the barrier of entry on adding the IIC variants will be much lower than new Omni-mechs. It gets us more clan mechs faster. Guess time will tell though.

[Sere Sudae]

Also point on the King Crab- one of my lancemates pointed out that you could make a workaround for the AC20 crit allocation problem by just removing the lower two actuators. It'll conflict with the record sheet and the aiming functions ingame but it wouldn't necessarily conflict with the art- the Summoner's arms lack the lower actuators but still look like arms, as the King Crab has (see here; http://altimit.co.uk/arac/Kingcrab.png)

If PGI wants to do it that way we could still see the King Crab ingame.

Edited by Steel Fox, 28 March 2013 - 01:41 PM.

[Jack Gallows]

Belorion, on 28 March 2013 - 01:09 PM, said:

I am going to have to disagree with you on the simple fact that the barrier of entry on adding the IIC variants will be much lower than new Omni-mechs. It gets us more clan mechs faster. Guess time will tell though.

Yea, let's tell the Clanners that they aren't worth the same development time as the IS mechs and give them knock off IIC mechs instead of other Omni/Second Line 'mechs. I've got nothing against IIC mechs, but I highly doubt PGI will just be lazy and cut corners on any 'mech after the first 16 omins come out.

I think they have the option of doing any 'mech they want after the initial wave of Clan Omnimechs hit, be it more Omnimechs or even second line units...at that point they'll have a solid enough stable they can do whatever they want.

[Odanan]

Steel Fox, on 28 March 2013 - 01:22 PM, said:

Also point on the King Crab- one of my lancemates pointed out that you could make a workaround for the AC20 crit allocation problem by just removing the lower two actuators. It'll conflict with the record sheet and the aiming functions ingame but it wouldn't necessarily conflict with the art- the Summoner's arms lack the lower actuators but still look like arms, as the King Crab has (see here; http://altimit.co.uk/arac/Kingcrab.png)

If PGI wants to do it that way we could still see the King Crab ingame.

King Crab won't be in the game because it sucks!

[Odanan]

I mean, I came here with several alternatives, each a very common and iconic mech, each with 4 or more variants and people still cry "King Crab" or "Thug"! Did you had the trouble to see their variants? They don't work in MWO.

[Strum Wealh]

Odanan, on 28 March 2013 - 07:20 PM, said:

I mean, I came here with several alternatives, each a very common and iconic mech, each with 4 or more variants and people still cry "King Crab" or "Thug"! Did you had the trouble to see their variants? They don't work in MWO.

And some of us, even now, hope against hope for the awesomeness that is the Marauder (yes, I'd even take the Project Phoenix version, which isn't that bad)...

[Odanan]

Strum Wealh, on 28 March 2013 - 07:32 PM, said:

And some of us, even now, hope against hope for the awesomeness that is the Marauder (yes, I'd even take the Project Phoenix version, which isn't that bad)...

Sure, the Unseen have tons of (cool) variants.

BTW, updated the table with corrected values and more info.

[Belorion]

Strum Wealh, on 28 March 2013 - 07:32 PM, said:

And some of us, even now, hope against hope for the awesomeness that is the Marauder (yes, I'd even take the Project Phoenix version, which isn't that bad)...

They could just slap cataphract arms on a catapult and take off the ears... Marauder.

Leave the ears on... mad cat

Edited by Belorion, 28 March 2013 - 08:36 PM.

[Deskup]

Well, my problem with tabled mechs is that they feel pretty much atlas/awesome all along. Especially banshee.
Okay, exept victor. But he is 80 tonns. I doubt i will be able to jam anthing too awesome into it.

King crab is cataphract 4-x larger cousin, fully capable of fielding a varied array of weponry. It also is clanbuster, looks epic, and 2x ac/20 is pretty much all the alpha you need. Probably thats why ppl root for it.
I personally root for Annihilator, but have hard time imagining variants. This site shows quite a bit of them tho http://goodsects.gotdns.com/bte/
It would be hilarious to see gausszilla hero mech... 5 gauss!
Pretty much anything projectile-centric would be great... not massive energy/missile boats again. Dakka, we need more dakka!

But out of the real variants Victor seems decent. Somewhat. Oh well. .More cbills saved for Daishi.

[Strum Wealh]

Odanan, on 28 March 2013 - 08:25 PM, said:

Sure, the Unseen have tons of (cool) variants.

BTW, updated the table with corrected values and more info.

The Zeus entry is currently missing the ZEU-9S-DC (command console variant introduced in 3049; standard engine and structure, FF armor and DHS, Tech Level 2 weapons).
Master Unit List entry
BTE page (with record sheet)