20517 replies to this topic

[Ovion]

Can't we like both?

[Odanan]

FupDup, on 28 September 2014 - 08:14 AM, said:

Are there any weapons in MWO that don't majorly break the canon design?


As for the Blazer, here are my own 2-minute ideas for its stats:

<Weapon id="1015" name="BinaryLaser" HardpointAliases="Energy,Laser" faction="InnerSphere">
	<Loc nameTag="@BL" descTag="@BL_desc" iconTag="StoreIcons\BinaryLaser.dds" />
	<WeaponStats Health="10" slots="4" type="Energy" projectileclass="" numFiring="1" damage="16.0" heatdamage="0" heatpenalty="2.8" minheatpenaltylevel="3" impulse="0.0" heatPenaltyID="3" heat="14.0" cooldown="3.5" ammoType="" ammoPerShot="0" minRange="0" longRange="450" maxRange="900" visRange="1500" tons="9" duration="1.2" lifetime="0" speed="0" volleydelay="0.0" maxDepth="10.0" />
	<EffectList>
	  <Effect name="Beam" asset="Objects/weapons/laser_beam_binary.cgf" />
	  <Effect name="BeamCap" asset="Objects/weapons/laser_impact_binary.cgf" />
	  <!--time : time it takes for the beam to scale to 100% for x,z scale	 distance :  how much the beam grows in one sec-->
	  <Effect name="ParticleBeam" asset="" />
	  <Effect name="TraceEffects" asset="laser_binary" />
	  <Effect name="Sound:Fire" asset="sounds/weapons:lasers:laser_binary_fire" float="0.0" />
	  <Effect name="Sound:PostFire" asset="sounds/weapons:lasers:laser_binary_power" float="0.0" />
	  <Effect name="DamageBrush" asset="Textures\\decals\\damage_brushes\\laser_binary.tif" />
	  <Effect name="DamageBrushType" asset="laser" float="32" float2="32" />
	  <Effect name="Projector:icecave" asset="textures/defaults/sparks_test.dds" vector="0.243,0.411,1.0" float="0.5" float2="1.5" float3="12" float4="160" float5="80" float6="6.5" num="9" />
	</EffectList>
	<Audio OnDestroyedDialogue="BB_BinaryLaser_Destroyed" />
  </Weapon>

TL;DR:

Pros:

• 1 ton less
  
• Slightly better heat efficiency due to slightly longer cooldown and beam duration (2LL = 1.65 heat per second and 14 heat per beam second, BLC = 2.95 heat per second and 11.67 heat per beam second)
  
• Only needs 1 hardpoint

Cons:

• 2 less alpha damage
  
• 0.2s longer duration
  
• Lower DPS due to slightly cooldown and beam duration (4.24 DPS vs 3.37 DPS)

Man, you don't break the weight and critical space in MWO.
It is possible to make the weapon worthy by just making the beam and the cooldown shorter than regular lasers. It would work more like a "super large pulse laser" - and sure, hot as hell.

[FupDup]

Odanan, on 28 September 2014 - 08:26 AM, said:

Man, you don't break the weight and critical space in MWO.
It is possible to make the weapon worthy by just making the beam and the cooldown shorter than regular lasers. It would work more like a "super large pulse laser" - and sure, hot as hell.

Good thing I didn't break the weight and critical space of the Blazer. Here is the code entry again, for reference:

<Weapon id="1015" name="BinaryLaser" HardpointAliases="Energy,Laser" faction="InnerSphere">
	<Loc nameTag="@BL" descTag="@BL_desc" iconTag="StoreIcons\BinaryLaser.dds" />
	<WeaponStats Health="10" slots="4" type="Energy" projectileclass="" numFiring="1" damage="16.0" heatdamage="0" heatpenalty="2.8" minheatpenaltylevel="3" impulse="0.0" heatPenaltyID="3" heat="14.0" cooldown="3.5" ammoType="" ammoPerShot="0" minRange="0" longRange="450" maxRange="900" visRange="1500" tons="9" duration="1.2" lifetime="0" speed="0" volleydelay="0.0" maxDepth="10.0" />
	<EffectList>
	  <Effect name="Beam" asset="Objects/weapons/laser_beam_binary.cgf" />
	  <Effect name="BeamCap" asset="Objects/weapons/laser_impact_binary.cgf" />
	  <!--time : time it takes for the beam to scale to 100% for x,z scale	 distance :  how much the beam grows in one sec-->
	  <Effect name="ParticleBeam" asset="" />
	  <Effect name="TraceEffects" asset="laser_binary" />
	  <Effect name="Sound:Fire" asset="sounds/weapons:lasers:laser_binary_fire" float="0.0" />
	  <Effect name="Sound:PostFire" asset="sounds/weapons:lasers:laser_binary_power" float="0.0" />
	  <Effect name="DamageBrush" asset="Textures\\decals\\damage_brushes\\laser_binary.tif" />
	  <Effect name="DamageBrushType" asset="laser" float="32" float2="32" />
	  <Effect name="Projector:icecave" asset="textures/defaults/sparks_test.dds" vector="0.243,0.411,1.0" float="0.5" float2="1.5" float3="12" float4="160" float5="80" float6="6.5" num="9" />
	</EffectList>
	<Audio OnDestroyedDialogue="BB_BinaryLaser_Destroyed" />
  </Weapon>

Notice the following lines:
slots = "4"
tons = "9"

Also known as, the stock weight and slots of the weapon.

Edited by FupDup, 28 September 2014 - 08:29 AM.

[Molossian Dog]

Bishop Steiner, on 28 September 2014 - 08:18 AM, said:

every bit as much as you are.

Which part of "...my personal opinion..." and "...I hope..." makes you think that? I´m curious.

The rhetorical tongue in cheek question?

Edited by Molossian Dog, 28 September 2014 - 08:33 AM.

[Odanan]

Molossian Dog, on 28 September 2014 - 07:58 AM, said:

My personal opinion is that PGI should totally skip the Charger idea and go straight for the Hatamoto series.

If I would encounter a Charger that would not absolutely suck in game, then it wouldn´t actually be a Charger. (leaving melee and unique Mechs aside)
The Hatamoto has variants galore. It has unique looks. The samurai theme was even part of the design process to instill some more snake pride. It gives the Dracs an assault that is clearly meant for them. (admittedly the Mauler cover that too)

Finally it is a samurai robot. Who wouldn´t like a samurai robot?

The main difference of the Charger and Hatamoto is the head. Sure, the Hatamoto looks cooler, but the Charger's variants are much more interesting (after MechLab tweaking) and unique.

I wish the Charger was the next assault, but I still prefer the Zeus over the Cyclops.

[Spheroid]

@Bishop. The Hatamoto is not bad as you make it out to be. I just want a Victor with shoulder baffles, minimal skirt armor and symmetrical torso hardpoints.




Why continue to rip on the Dracs when you know the Capellans have the ugliest designs coming up. The Thunder is literally a man wearing a hat.

Edited by Spheroid, 28 September 2014 - 08:37 AM.

[Odanan]

FupDup, on 28 September 2014 - 08:27 AM, said:

Good thing I didn't break the weight and critical space of the Blazer. Here is the code entry again, for reference:

<Weapon id="1015" name="BinaryLaser" HardpointAliases="Energy,Laser" faction="InnerSphere">
	<Loc nameTag="@BL" descTag="@BL_desc" iconTag="StoreIcons\BinaryLaser.dds" />
	<WeaponStats Health="10" slots="4" type="Energy" projectileclass="" numFiring="1" damage="16.0" heatdamage="0" heatpenalty="2.8" minheatpenaltylevel="3" impulse="0.0" heatPenaltyID="3" heat="14.0" cooldown="3.5" ammoType="" ammoPerShot="0" minRange="0" longRange="450" maxRange="900" visRange="1500" tons="9" duration="1.2" lifetime="0" speed="0" volleydelay="0.0" maxDepth="10.0" />
	<EffectList>
	  <Effect name="Beam" asset="Objects/weapons/laser_beam_binary.cgf" />
	  <Effect name="BeamCap" asset="Objects/weapons/laser_impact_binary.cgf" />
	  <!--time : time it takes for the beam to scale to 100% for x,z scale	 distance :  how much the beam grows in one sec-->
	  <Effect name="ParticleBeam" asset="" />
	  <Effect name="TraceEffects" asset="laser_binary" />
	  <Effect name="Sound:Fire" asset="sounds/weapons:lasers:laser_binary_fire" float="0.0" />
	  <Effect name="Sound:PostFire" asset="sounds/weapons:lasers:laser_binary_power" float="0.0" />
	  <Effect name="DamageBrush" asset="Textures\\decals\\damage_brushes\\laser_binary.tif" />
	  <Effect name="DamageBrushType" asset="laser" float="32" float2="32" />
	  <Effect name="Projector:icecave" asset="textures/defaults/sparks_test.dds" vector="0.243,0.411,1.0" float="0.5" float2="1.5" float3="12" float4="160" float5="80" float6="6.5" num="9" />
	</EffectList>
	<Audio OnDestroyedDialogue="BB_BinaryLaser_Destroyed" />
  </Weapon>

Notice the following lines:
slots = "4"
tons = "9"

Also known as, the stock weight and slots of the weapon.

Oh, I'm sorry, I misunderstood the "1 ton less".

[ShadowbaneX]

SgtMagor, on 28 September 2014 - 06:33 AM, said:

well, we know there is a Zeus, Cyclops and maybe a Charger probably getting worked on. now they just need to add the Heavy, medium, and light mech. would like to see the Grasshopper for a heavy! http://www.sarna.net...Grasshopper.jpgbetter pic http://projectbtu.fi...ncept_final.jpg

We also know that the Mauler was being worked on months ago. I think they're more likely to use that first and then get to the Zeus/Cyclops for a standard mech at some point down the line. Just because they had a vote on some mechs recently doesn't mean they're going to make it into an IS pack for Christmas. More that likely they have other assets in place that they can use for this package, rather than making an entire new 4-pack of mechs.

[Odanan]

ShadowbaneX, on 28 September 2014 - 09:17 AM, said:

We also know that the Mauler was being worked on months ago. I think they're more likely to use that first and then get to the Zeus/Cyclops for a standard mech at some point down the line. Just because they had a vote on some mechs recently doesn't mean they're going to make it into an IS pack for Christmas. More that likely they have other assets in place that they can use for this package, rather than making an entire new 4-pack of mechs.

You know the Mauler was in concept art stage. There is no clue if it ever went to production. Anyway, the mech still has issues with the minimum variant requirement.

They might have some IS mechs in the working or not. The voting, aligned with the the idea of an IS pack, suggests that Zeus could be the assault mech (or not). And rest assured, these mechs won't be ready for 2014. Like all other pre-order packs, they will sell the mechs showing only the concept arts.

[Nathan Foxbane]

Odanan, on 28 September 2014 - 08:26 AM, said:

Man, you don't break the weight and critical space in MWO.
It is possible to make the weapon worthy by just making the beam and the cooldown shorter than regular lasers. It would work more like a "super large pulse laser" - and sure, hot as hell.

The way I see the BLC working is to give it the same beam duration as a Large Laser so it is stacking more damage per tick and give it a slightly longer cooldown. It really is a hard weapon to work on without it completely sucking, but honestly, I prefer lasers to PPC of any kind. By the same token, it does weigh two more tons than an ER PPC, but if you are shy on crits and hard points those are two double heat sinks you won't have anyways. Give them a 3 weapon max before ghost heat kicks in and things might just get interesting.

[-Skyrider-]

My guess is that pgi has 2 more innersphere mechs coming down the pipe before the crabs, which will be of 2 of these 4 most likely, either javelin, mongoose, grasshopper, or blackknight.

[ShadowbaneX]

Odanan, on 28 September 2014 - 09:49 AM, said:

You know the Mauler was in concept art stage. There is no clue if it ever went to production. Anyway, the mech still has issues with the minimum variant requirement.

At least we know that the Mauler is/has been in the concept art stage, and, yes, I'm aware of the variant issues. That said, for all we know the Zeus, Cyclops, etc hasn't even made it to the concept art stage. Just saying to those thinking that the Zeus will be in this new IS pack, might want to think again.

[CycKath]

Molossian Dog, on 28 September 2014 - 07:58 AM, said:

My personal opinion is that PGI should totally skip the Charger idea and go straight for the Hatamoto series.

If I would encounter a Charger that would not absolutely suck in game, then it wouldn´t actually be a Charger. (leaving melee and unique Mechs aside)
The Hatamoto has variants galore. It has unique looks. The samurai theme was even part of the design process to instill some more snake pride. It gives the Dracs an assault that is clearly meant for them. (admittedly the Mauler cover that too)

Finally it is a samurai robot. Who wouldn´t like a samurai robot?

But the benefit of the Charger is the fact that the Hatamotos are visually the same 'Mech with some slight different geometry bolted on (head, shoulder pauldrons a little higher, torso tweaks, skirt). Doing either makes it easier to do the other by shortening the modelling work needed.

[Molossian Dog]

Spheroid, on 28 September 2014 - 08:34 AM, said:

...
Why continue to rip on the Dracs when you know the Capellans have the ugliest designs coming up. The Thunder is literally a man wearing a hat.

An ugly hat!

[Cimarb]

Metus regem, on 28 September 2014 - 06:46 AM, said:

Fair point Bishop, I'd call the bulk of the clan ballistics the bad weapons...

I highly disagree with you. Clan ballistics are how ballistics should have been handled all along. Pinpoint FLD is the bane of this game, right ahead of its brother, the Quasimodo of a heat system...

[Ens]

Soooo...
any wild speculations when the new/next IS Chassis might hit the game? ( not the Centurion-AH or the new Atlas Variant....err plus King Crab )


Edit:

btw:
only 4 Mechs left without a Hero variant

Edited by Ens, 30 September 2014 - 05:34 AM.

[SgtMagor]

Ens, on 30 September 2014 - 05:17 AM, said:

Soooo...
any wild speculations when the new/next IS Chassis might hit the game? ( not the Centurion-AH or the new Atlas Variant....err plus King Crab )

who knows, but PGI seems to be full of surprises lately, been keeping watch to make sure I don't miss a flash sale or announcement on new unknown mechs. might be a Zeus ready to drop

[Zyllos]

Odanan, on 28 September 2014 - 09:49 AM, said:

You know the Mauler was in concept art stage. There is no clue if it ever went to production. Anyway, the mech still has issues with the minimum variant requirement.

They might have some IS mechs in the working or not. The voting, aligned with the the idea of an IS pack, suggests that Zeus could be the assault mech (or not). And rest assured, these mechs won't be ready for 2014. Like all other pre-order packs, they will sell the mechs showing only the concept arts.

ShadowbaneX, on 28 September 2014 - 05:56 PM, said:

At least we know that the Mauler is/has been in the concept art stage, and, yes, I'm aware of the variant issues. That said, for all we know the Zeus, Cyclops, etc hasn't even made it to the concept art stage. Just saying to those thinking that the Zeus will be in this new IS pack, might want to think again.

Doesn't the "Daboku" fix the 3 variant issue? http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Daboku

MAL-1R, MAL-1PT5, and DCMS-MX90-D (could be changed to MAL-X90-D or something).

[Odanan]

Zyllos, on 30 September 2014 - 05:57 AM, said:

Doesn't the "Daboku" fix the 3 variant issue? http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Daboku

MAL-1R, MAL-1PT5, and DCMS-MX90-D (could be changed to MAL-X90-D or something).

Yes, yes, yes.

Odanan, on 14 November 2013 - 08:07 AM, said:

3 "variants" for the Mauler (probably too powerful, tough):



Mauler MAL-1R

XL Engine, Ferro Fibrous



RA 1x ER Large Laser (2x Energy Hardpoints)

RT 2x AC/2, 1x LRM15 (2x Ballistic Hardpoints, 1x Missile Hardpoint)

CT -

H -

LT 2x AC/2, 1x LRM15 (2x Ballistic Hardpoints, 1x Missile Hardpoint)

LA 1x ER Large Laser (2x Energy Hardpoints)



---------------------------

Mauler DCMS-MX90-D (Daboku - relatively common until the MAL-1R is introduced)



RA 1x Large Laser (1x Energy Hardpoint)

RT 2x AC/2, 1x LRM10 (3x Ballistic Hardpoints, 1x Missile Hardpoint)

CT -

H -

LT 2x AC/2, 1x LRM10 (3x Ballistic Hardpoints, 1x Missile Hardpoint)

LA 1x Large Laser (1x Energy Hardpoint)



---------------------------

Mauler MAL-1PT5 (low tech Mauler, same as the semi-canonical Linesman)



RA 1x Medium Laser (1x Energy Hardpoint)

RT 2x AC/2, 1x LRM15 (2x Ballistic Hardpoints, 2x Missile Hardpoints)

CT -

H -

LT 2x AC/2, 1x LRM15 (2x Ballistic Hardpoints, 2x Missile Hardpoints)

LA 1x Medium Laser (1x Energy Hardpoint)



PGI, please?

[phalanx]

Ens, on 30 September 2014 - 05:17 AM, said:

Soooo...
any wild speculations when the new/next IS Chassis might hit the game? ( not the Centurion-AH or the new Atlas Variant....err plus King Crab )


Edit:

btw:
only 4 Mechs left without a Hero variant

If I were to guess, I would bet that we will get a Clan Hero before the year is out. It would have to be a variant with Unique Hardpoints, or at least be announced at the time of Clan Mech Quirk Pass.

My hope is that the next Mech we get is a Heavy. Many people have talked about the Black Knight , but my heart always will be with the Grasshopper and Guillotine. Despite the fact that Odanan has smartly predicted that they will be identified as slower Quickdraws(The competitive community are likely to impose the perjorative "Slowdraws" upon them), the Quirks system does present balance possibilities:

1) Guillotine could get an armor buff for legs and maybe torso(just look at those horse legs on its artwork! )

2) Grasshopper could get a JJ buff and maybe a speed buff.

I suspect that we will get at least 1 more IS mech before the year is over. A Guillotine/Grasshopper combo would be super cool.


Since I felt that this thread was not addressing the discussion of Mechs which do not have three variants, I created my own thread. You can find the "Thrid Variant" thread here.