20517 replies to this topic

[Metus regem]

ShadowbaneX, on 17 November 2014 - 08:47 PM, said:

any respect that I had for you was just lost.

As much as I would love the 3025 TRO art work ones, due to my love of macross, I'm realistic about it.

As for LAM's they are so flexible on the battle field, one round move like a mech, next round do a straifing run as an aerospace fighter, then land and cool off...

In lore entire companies of battle mechs were sacrificed for a chance at getting spare parts for LAM's...

[CycKath]

Yep, til people started realising that was a bad idea and it's better to make do with ASF and 'Mechs separately. Even during the Star League era LAMs were uncommon niche units at best.

[SgtMagor]

Patch day, time for some Mist Lynx fun. ECM and 6 jump jets

[Metus regem]

CycKath, on 17 November 2014 - 10:31 PM, said:

Yep, til people started realising that was a bad idea and it's better to make do with ASF and 'Mechs separately. Even during the Star League era LAMs were uncommon niche units at best.

That every RCT kept between a Lance and company for scouting.... Not even a locust with MASC could cover as much ground as quickly....

Like I've said in other places, one of the few mechs that have never let me down in almost 20 years of TT, is a Phoenix Hawk LAM. (PHX-HK2M), when I would show up at a tourney with a lance of them, would I get strange looks? Yup, would they get the objectives faster than anyone else could? Or wreck someone's rear armour? Yup!

[Bishop Steiner]

Metus regem, on 18 November 2014 - 05:14 AM, said:

That every RCT kept between a Lance and company for scouting.... Not even a locust with MASC could cover as much ground as quickly....

Like I've said in other places, one of the few mechs that have never let me down in almost 20 years of TT, is a Phoenix Hawk LAM. (PHX-HK2M), when I would show up at a tourney with a lance of them, would I get strange looks? Yup, would they get the objectives faster than anyone else could? Or wreck someone's rear armour? Yup!

I always liked LAMs. Especially when I was running my Reavers Merc Unit. With 1 regiment of Mechs, and 250 Aerospace Fighters in 2 regiments, it was always fun to watch them crap their drawers when much faster, better armed and armored TRUE Aerospace fighters ruled the skies..... and then if they tried to escape on the ground, the better armed, armored and faster Mechs would wipe them.

But in small unit settings, and niche missions, they were cool. And the Robotech kid in me always loved my Veritechs anyhow.

[Metus regem]

Bishop Steiner, on 18 November 2014 - 05:25 AM, said:

I always liked LAMs. Especially when I was running my Reavers Merc Unit. With 1 regiment of Mechs, and 250 Aerospace Fighters in 2 regiments, it was always fun to watch them crap their drawers when much faster, better armed and armored TRUE Aerospace fighters ruled the skies..... and then if they tried to escape on the ground, the better armed, armored and faster Mechs would wipe them.

But in small unit settings, and niche missions, they were cool. And the Robotech kid in me always loved my Veritechs anyhow.

Valkyries! They are Valkyries, not Veritechs...

And you are totally right, I never did tournaments with forces bigger than company strength, but if I did, I know that I would limit the LAM's for the missions that they would be great at.

[wanderer]

ShadowbaneX, on 30 October 2014 - 06:07 PM, said:

I love me my Shadow Hawks, but I personally think SRM2s are useless, and dropping it and it's ammo for a second ML and a pair of Jump Jets, gives a bit more damage for the mech and more maneuverability...and it's not as if it needs to worry about the extra heat.

It'll be interesting to see what they come up with for these hero mechs. I sorta hope that they give us a pair of Shadow Hawks instead of a Shadow Hawk & a Locust.

Oldschool, SRM2s served a somewhat unique role on 'Mechs, as originally only SRM2 launchers could fire inferno munitions.

This also led to a later in-joke to older players when the retro-tech readouts introduced the Firebee.

But an ECM Locust and heavy energy Shadow Hawk are definitely unique pieces of work for MWO's sake, if utterly non-canon. The GDL's lasting contribution to history was never Battlemech variants, but the first truly homegrown military-grade powered armor, a distinction maintained even after the destruction of the 'Mech unit by the business that lived on after them.

[wanderer]

MeiSooHaityu, on 03 November 2014 - 08:38 AM, said:

Looks like a Raven and Marauder had a kid.

That must be a really old design BTW, the Mechwarrior 2 Strategy Guide I have from the 90's shows a Cataphract looking like it does now. Wish I could find a pic

That Cataphract artwork dates all the way back to 1987 and the original Liao sourcebook. Although it's true- the parts for the original 'Phracts were re-engineered from other Liao-produced designs into a relatively harmonious whole, just not with the visuals the original artwork ended up with. It, like the Raven share the distinction of being the first two ECM-capable 'Mech designs produced prior to the revival of the Guardian ECM system- the -0X prototypes for the heavy, and the production-model Raven with their 7.5 tons of EW equipment.

Lori Kalamar's ECM-equipped hero also opens the possibility of an ECM-equipped hero 'Phract. Think you could deal with something like this on the field?

[Logan Hawke]

Nathan Foxbane, on 13 November 2014 - 07:03 PM, said:

You can already do the weapons configuration on the CN9-A. The Talos itself went extinct during the Reunification War.

Just because you can make it with the CN9A doesn't mean you need to poop all over my sunshine Q_Q
There's other mechs that already have similar/same hardpoints anyway so that argument is a bit moot anyway.

[wanderer]

Logan Hawke, on 13 November 2014 - 07:53 AM, said:

But more importantly,

NOW THAT WE HAVE THE ENFORCER IT MAKES THE TALOS A POSSIBILITY!1!1!!1!!!1!!ONE!1!1!!1!

Heh. The Talos, like a lot of ancient designs is still in the dustbin of history. Not that I'd complain, mind you- there's a lot of first-generation machines that would make excellent revivals given MWO, but the Talos config of an AC + 3 missile launchers strongly resembles the hardpoint capacity of the Centurion-AH, right down to matching tonnage and engine capacity.

[Logan Hawke]

wanderer, on 18 November 2014 - 06:12 AM, said:

Heh. The Talos, like a lot of ancient designs is still in the dustbin of history. Not that I'd complain, mind you- there's a lot of first-generation machines that would make excellent revivals given MWO, but the Talos config of an AC + 3 missile launchers strongly resembles the hardpoint capacity of the Centurion-AH, right down to matching tonnage and engine capacity.

Yes, but the above cockpit shoulder missle hardpoints in each side torso is what makes the Talos its own beast.

Plus it has birdlegs! We need more non humanoid mechs!

Edited by Logan Hawke, 18 November 2014 - 06:19 AM.

[wanderer]

CycKath, on 17 November 2014 - 10:31 PM, said:

Yep, til people started realising that was a bad idea and it's better to make do with ASF and 'Mechs separately. Even during the Star League era LAMs were uncommon niche units at best.

3025-era TOEs in Marik actually listed entire companies or more of the design, but the LAM was a design that lost it's technological support worst and most in the Succession War + era, especially after the Stinger LAM factory on Irece was wrecked during the Clan war era. The LAM is a hangar queen, and significant use of the idea would only come into being with the Word of Blake's Clantech-level designs- which being WoB-unique were then nearly universally rejected in the same way Blakist Celestial Omnimechs were as symbols of a hated regime.

That being said, the LAM only really shines in cases when a unit needs more integrated air support options than an aerospace fighter produces- something most successfully done with the Mk 1 Wasp LAM with it's 5-ton bomb bay (that even let it deliver Arrow IVs!), a design that was in turn refitted with an LRM-10, and in turn THAT was the inspiration for the Valkyrie light 'Mech that is a hallmark of early Davion scout 'Mech design.

[Odanan]

OK, it looks like the Mist Lynx is not an easy ride.

I saw some skilled people do well with it, but it is not the Clan's Spider (or Jenner, or Raven, or Firestarter).

This makes me wish more and more the Arctic Cheetah. Wave 3, come please.

[Ens]

Odanan, on 19 November 2014 - 08:49 AM, said:

OK, it looks like the Mist Lynx is not an easy ride.

"If life gives you lemons, grab some tequila and make the best out of it"

Edited by Ens, 22 November 2014 - 08:26 AM.

[ShadowbaneX]

Bishop Steiner, on 18 November 2014 - 05:25 AM, said:

I always liked LAMs. Especially when I was running my Reavers Merc Unit. With 1 regiment of Mechs, and 250 Aerospace Fighters in 2 regiments, it was always fun to watch them crap their drawers when much faster, better armed and armored TRUE Aerospace fighters ruled the skies..... and then if they tried to escape on the ground, the better armed, armored and faster Mechs would wipe them.

But in small unit settings, and niche missions, they were cool. And the Robotech kid in me always loved my Veritechs anyhow.

Since I came to the party late, I have no special place in my heart for LAMs. That said, I can completely understand the thought of loving when an opponent brought questionable units to a match. You can usually find a edge or corner case where something will be useful, but in the case of LAMs it's just too much robotech in my mechwarrior.

wanderer, on 18 November 2014 - 05:55 AM, said:

Oldschool, SRM2s served a somewhat unique role on 'Mechs, as originally only SRM2 launchers could fire inferno munitions.

This also led to a later in-joke to older players when the retro-tech readouts introduced the Firebee.

There's a reason why the SRM2, like the AC/5 & 10 got upgrades in the 3039-3050 era...they sucked. A single SRM2 just isn't worth the tonnage. From what I've seen of the MechWarrior campaigns I'm in most fights last 20-25 rounds. An SRM2 has 50 shots on a ton of ammo.

Additionally, you've got a less then 50% chance of hitting with both missiles...it's just not worth the tonnage at that point. 2 SRM2s with a ton of ammo? Ok, that's more worthwhile, especially if you can make it Inferno rounds. This is also the same reason I'm not too fond of tue uAC/5. Sure, firing twice is great, but 41.66% of the time you're only hitting with one round. Geee, thanks.

There was something from the Deadlands RPG, in that when you succeeded at an attack you got to use anything over the base number to hit as a bonus to hit location, so you had a better chance of a gut, heart or heat shot. I sorta wish that MechWarrior/Battletech had the same. If you needed a 8 to hit and rolled an 11, you should be able to add those to the missile hits table so you've got a better chance of landing a full volley of missiles.

Edited by ShadowbaneX, 19 November 2014 - 05:54 PM.

[Metus regem]

ShadowbaneX, on 19 November 2014 - 05:20 PM, said:

Since I came to the party late, I have no special place in my heart for LAMs. That said, I can completely understand the thought of loving when an opponent brought questionable units to a match. You can usually find a edge or corner case where something will be useful, but in the case of LAMs it's just too much robotech in my mechwarrior.

As I said in nearly 20 years of TT, the only lance that has never failed me has been my LAM lance, 2 Wasps 1Stinger 1 phoenix hawk...

My love for them comes from macross, just as my love for the War hammer 6D, that being said I've found how to use them, and they do well.

[Odanan]

Metus regem, on 19 November 2014 - 07:59 PM, said:

As I said in nearly 20 years of TT, the only lance that has never failed me has been my LAM lance, 2 Wasps 1Stinger 1 phoenix hawk...

My love for them comes from macross, just as my love for the War hammer 6D, that being said I've found how to use them, and they do well.

Of course the LAMs do well, they are completely out of balance with the TT.

Imagine a Spider in MWO with 200 jumpjets.

Edited by Odanan, 20 November 2014 - 08:34 AM.

[CDLord HHGD]

Odanan, on 20 November 2014 - 03:27 AM, said:

Of course the LAMs do well, they are completely out of balance with the TT.

Imagine a Spider in MWO with 200 jumpjets.

I just imagine Wiley Coyote with an Acme jetpack.......

[Bishop Steiner]

Odanan, on 20 November 2014 - 03:27 AM, said:

Of course the LAMs do well, they are completely out of balance with the TT.

Imagine a Spider in MWO with 200 jumpjets.

Well....18 jjs, if I recall (3x jump range)..... of course the no heat part from jumping helped a tad, too.

[Odanan]

Bishop Steiner, on 20 November 2014 - 05:55 AM, said:

Well....18 jjs, if I recall (3x jump range)..... of course the no heat part from jumping helped a tad, too.

Oops! I meant 20 jumpjets!

(and jumpjets in TT are incredibly good)