20517 replies to this topic

[Anyone00]

Belorion, on 02 August 2013 - 12:38 PM, said:

https://plus.google....762003975772161

Probably not the case but it looks (looks) like it has crotch guns.

Edited by Anyone00, 02 August 2013 - 04:03 PM.

[Der BruzZzler von Wiesndoof]

cdlord, on 02 August 2013 - 11:44 AM, said:

Where's my concept artwork for the remaining 3 Phoenix Mechs? They did the Locust, can we have the rest? Consistency please! I needs it.

I need it, too!
They have shown us the Phoenix Locust, but they don't show us the regular variants in front of the classic coast battle. A short story for each mech would be nice, too. I know, these green things are the regular variants, but it's not enough for me, cause all have the same camo without decals etc. I hope, they'll show us the regular variants in the "classic" announcement style soon.

Edited by The Birdeater, 02 August 2013 - 04:28 PM.

[Phoenix Branson]

I'm thinking the next heavy 'Mech announced is going to be a Star League design. If you look at the other weight classes, you will notice the following:

Light: Flea
Medium: Kintaro
Heavy: ------------
Assault: Highlander

With that said, which Star League 'Mech has the best chances? Well, lets look at the contenders:

Champion
Lancelot
Bombardier
Guillotine
Black Knight
Flashman

The Bombardier doesn't really offer anything new to MWO. The Guillotine, Black Knight and the Flashman have the issue of the variants being homogeneous. I think the Champion and Lancelot have the best chances with the Champion having a slight edge due to being a non-humanoid 'Mech (although the Lancelot is the fastest heavy 'Mech with one interesting ballistic variant). The distribution of hardpoints would keep the Champion sufficiently distinct from the Dragon. Thoughts?

Edited by Maverick01, 02 August 2013 - 05:45 PM.

[Odanan]

Anyone00, on 02 August 2013 - 04:03 PM, said:

Probably not the case but it looks (looks) like it has crotch guns.

It hasn't. (as the Highlander hasn't AMS in the legs)

[Odanan]

Maverick01, on 02 August 2013 - 05:18 PM, said:

The distribution of hardpoints would keep the Champion sufficiently distinct from the Dragon. Thoughts?

Not sufficiently distinct, unfortunately. (because it is quite beautiful, even in the TROs)

Lancelot, no doubts.

(the Guillotine would be great, but after the Quickdraw, it is pretty redundant)

[Strum Wealh]

Odanan, on 02 August 2013 - 05:58 PM, said:

Not sufficiently distinct, unfortunately. (because it is quite beautiful, even in the TROs)

I disagree.

The layout of the Champion is very different from that of the Dragon (two extra lasers, missiles in the LT rather than the CT, no arm weapons at all (ACs in the RT, lasers and missiles in the LT, and lasers in the CT)), and the hardpoint potentials are also very different (particularly with regard to missiles).

• CHP-1N readout
  
• CHP-1N2 readout
  
• CHP-2N readout

(The BTE links point to the named 'Mechs as of the time of this writing.)

Give one an extra ballistic hardpoint, give one an extra energy hardpoint, and give one an extra missile hardpoint; the combination of that, the distribution of hardpoints across the body (and thus unable to take agvantage of the greater firing arcs and faster tracking allowed by mounting weapons in actuated arms), and the geometry of the 'Mech (with both arms being empty and effectively vestigial... and given their usual shape in BT artwork, generally incapable of being used to effectively (if at all) shield the body) would keep the Champion sufficiently distinct from the Dragon.

Example CHP-1N:
LT: x2 ballistic (x1 LB 10-X)
CT: x2 energy (x2 Small Laser)
RT: x2 energy (x2 Medium Laser), x1 missile (x1 ASRM-6)
Standard Internal Structure, Standard 300 Engine, FF Armor (71% of maximum), Standard Heat Sinks

Example CHP-1N2:
LT: x1 ballistic (x1 LB 10-X)
CT: x2 energy (x2 Small Laser)
RT: x3 energy (x2 Medium Laser), x1 missile (x1 ASRM-6)
Standard Internal Structure, Standard 300 Engine, FF Armor (71% of maximum), Double Heat Sinks

Example CHP-2N:
LT: x1 ballistic (x1 AC/10)
CT: x2 energy (x2 Small Laser)
RT: x2 energy (x2 Medium Laser), x2 missile (x1 SRM-6)
Standard Internal Structure, Standard 300 Engine, Standard Armor (64% of maximum), Standard Heat Sinks

As described in the above examples, the Champion has the potential to carry a greater number of weapons (in different E/B/M ratios) than the Dragon, but has substantially less flexibility in bringing said weapons to bear (due to all of the weapons being torso-mounted).

Thoughts?

Edited by Strum Wealh, 02 August 2013 - 07:36 PM.

[Joachim Viltry]

I would love to see the old girl in the game, but realistically I think the chances of that were tanked when they decided to call MC purchasable Player Builds "Champion mechs"

- could you imagine the confusion?

"I'm driving my champion, champion" - classic "who is on first" style sketch follows...

[Strum Wealh]

Joachim Viltry, on 02 August 2013 - 06:48 PM, said:

I would love to see the old girl in the game, but realistically I think the chances of that were tanked when they decided to call MC purchasable Player Builds "Champion mechs"

- could you imagine the confusion?

"I'm driving my champion, champion" - classic "who is on first" style sketch follows...

There are a number of ways to address that, including (but not limited to):

• refer to the 'Mech as "CHP" (verbalized "cee-aitch-pee"; e.g. "Target Bravo is a CHP!")
  
• refer to the 'Mech as a "Champ" (optionally followed by the variant designation) while referring to the status as "champion" (e.g. "Target Charlie is a Champ-1N2!", "I'm piloting a champion-Champ.")
  
• refer to the status as "champ" while referring to the 'Mech as a Champion (e.g. "champ-Atlas", "champ-Dragon", "champ-Champion")

[Joachim Viltry]

Strum Wealh, on 02 August 2013 - 07:33 PM, said:

There are a number of ways to address that, including (but not limited to)...

All well and good from a player standpoint, but that doesn't negate the real problem. Which is that PGI chose to use the word Champion as a term to describe mech variants designed by players. I'm doubtful that they will select a mech that could confuse both people who aren't familiar with the source material and people who aren't familiar with PGI's nomenclature.

They probably chose to use the word due to commonality of concept with the already used "Hero"... but, did they do that without forethought given to possible problems? Or does it mean that they already wrote off the Champion as a nonstarter?

Either way I don't think their going to give me the mech I really want. Now if they do give it too me I will celebrate, certainly... but by creating the naming conflict in the first place they will have displayed serious issues pertaining to planning.

[Odanan]

For your information, I made a topic about balance/feature suggestions.
Please be gentle.

[Bishop Steiner]

Odanan, on 03 August 2013 - 04:20 AM, said:

For your information, I made a topic about balance/feature suggestions.
Please be gentle.

I'll be gentle as a chainsaw!

[xhrit]

omg do want.

[Colddawg]

Maverick01, on 02 August 2013 - 05:18 PM, said:

I'm thinking the next heavy 'Mech announced is going to be a Star League design. If you look at the other weight classes, you will notice the following:

Light: Flea
Medium: Kintaro
Heavy: ------------
Assault: Highlander

With that said, which Star League 'Mech has the best chances? Well, lets look at the contenders:

Champion
Lancelot
Bombardier
Guillotine
Black Knight
Flashman

The Bombardier doesn't really offer anything new to MWO. The Guillotine, Black Knight and the Flashman have the issue of the variants being homogeneous. I think the Champion and Lancelot have the best chances with the Champion having a slight edge due to being a non-humanoid 'Mech (although the Lancelot is the fastest heavy 'Mech with one interesting ballistic variant). The distribution of hardpoints would keep the Champion sufficiently distinct from the Dragon. Thoughts?

I'd be interested to see how Alex remakes the Champion!

[Tennex]

really wanted to see some chicken legged mediums.. feel like there arn't any good ones in this timeline.


Crab

Strider

what else?

Edited by Tennex, 03 August 2013 - 06:17 PM.

[FupDup]

Tennex, on 03 August 2013 - 06:03 PM, said:

really wanted to see some chicken legged mediums.. feel like there arn't any good ones in this timeline.


Strider

Eh...the Strider is an Omnimech.

[Tennex]

FupDup, on 03 August 2013 - 06:24 PM, said:

Eh...the Strider is an Omnimech.

ah oops. so really just the crab

Edited by Tennex, 03 August 2013 - 06:33 PM.

[Anjian]

Chicken legged mediums? Comes the Clans, the first and most iconic Clan medium, the Storm Crow aka the Ryoken.

[Anjian]

If you're going to put a 55 ton medium mech this month, I thought bringing the Hoplite in would have been a better idea if you are tired of humanoid designs. The artwork for this Hoplite is actually from Alex Inglesias, pre MWO days. This probably gives you the best idea if ever how this mech would look if it comes to MWO.

[Odanan]

Anjian, on 04 August 2013 - 10:04 AM, said:

If you're going to put a 55 ton medium mech this month, I thought bringing the Hoplite in would have been a better idea if you are tired of humanoid designs. The artwork for this Hoplite is actually from Alex Inglesias, pre MWO days. This probably gives you the best idea if ever how this mech would look if it comes to MWO.

The Hoplite would be a terrible mech in MWO... too slow, with very limited hardpoints...
(it has that ugly beauty which Alex Iglesias works so well, tough)

[Strum Wealh]

Anjian, on 04 August 2013 - 10:04 AM, said:

If you're going to put a 55 ton medium mech this month, I thought bringing the Hoplite in would have been a better idea if you are tired of humanoid designs. The artwork for this Hoplite is actually from Alex Inglesias, pre MWO days. This probably gives you the best idea if ever how this mech would look if it comes to MWO.

Odanan, on 04 August 2013 - 10:50 AM, said:

The Hoplite would be a terrible mech in MWO... too slow, with very limited hardpoints...
(it has that ugly beauty which Alex Iglesias works so well, tough)

The other issue with the Hoplite is that it is non-existent in the IS outside of the Wolf's Dragoons, and even they lack the facilities to replace any Hoplites that they lose - no one in the IS has built Hoplites since the fall of the Star League.

"While every Hoplite in the Inner Sphere was destroyed during the Amaris Crisis and the early Succession Wars, Aleksandr Kerensky's SLDF exiles found the simple and rugged design ideal for bolstering their forces in the months prior to the Exodus Civil War. Selected by the Wolf's Dragoons in the belief that the ancient design wouldn't arouse undue attention, it had the complete opposite effect, and only raised more questions as to the Dragoons' origins when they arrived in 3005. After the mercenaries cut ties with the Clan Homeworlds in 3020, they also lost access to replacement Hoplites, with attrition bringing the design close to extinction by the Jihad. During the Jihad, when the surviving Dragoons relocated to Arc-Royal, experimental refits were performed on the remaining Hoplites, which continued after the conflict's end."

By contrast, every 'Mech announced/implemented thus far is at least semi-common within the armies of at least two of the Successor States.

Though, do consider the variants that would likely be implemented:

• HOP-4A: x1 AC/10 (RT), x1 LRM-5 (LT), ~64 kph (Std 220 Engine), 99% of max. armor load [this variant is identical to the 4C, save the communication system]
  
• HOP-4B: x1 PPC (RA), x1 LRM-15 (LA), ~64 kph (Std 220 Engine), 99% of max. armor load
  
• HOP-4C: x1 AC/10 (RT), x1 LRM-5 (LT), ~64 kph (Std 220 Engine), 99% of max. armor load [this variant is identical to the 4A, save the communication system]
  
• HOP-4D: x1 LB 10-X (RA), x1 LRM-5 (LT), ~64 kph (Std 220 Engine), 99% of max. armor load

(All BTE links point to the 'Mech so named as of the time of this writing.)


All but one variant are limited to ballistic/missile mixes (with the remaining variant being using an energy-missile mix), and none of the variants are jump-capable.
Make of that what you will.

Edited by Strum Wealh, 05 August 2013 - 03:50 AM.