20517 replies to this topic

[Diego Angelus]

Odanan, on 07 December 2013 - 02:46 PM, said:

[/size]
[/list]I don't want to teach the teacher, but are you not forgetting some chassis?

Like Annihilator, Crockett, Daboku, Imp, Marauder II, Shogun and Thug. All of them have some low tech variant at 3039.

There are also some later designs, like the Devastator, Hatamoto-Chi and Mauler.

And not to mention very old designs, not currently not produced, but maybe with some surviving exemplar, like the Emperor, Nightstar, Pillager, Striker, Spartan and Thunder Hawk.

and what about Mackie first mech ever

[Red squirrel]

Whatzituyah, on 07 December 2013 - 03:17 PM, said:

Not really that new but so far they have not done the reseen thing have they?

Project Pheonix - although it does not include any Macross reseen.

[Whatzituyah]

Red squirrel, on 07 December 2013 - 03:36 PM, said:

Project Pheonix - although it does not include any Macross reseen.

My point exactly they don't want to lock horns with Harmony Gold.

Edited by Whatzituyah, 07 December 2013 - 03:41 PM.

[Bishop Steiner]

Whatzituyah, on 07 December 2013 - 02:26 PM, said:

The bold underlined mechs are going to cause a problem. Legal real life problems I do not know if anything else would be a legal issue but I am leaning towards archer being one of those.

we are more than aware of that (been discussed heavily earlier in this and other threads), but the point was to show in this timeline, what technically, the units used most heavily.

[Red squirrel]

Whatzituyah, on 07 December 2013 - 03:41 PM, said:

My point exactly they don't want to lock horns with Harmony Gold.

I'll never understand this argument (although it's been made over and over)
The reseen are reseen and there is no legal whatsoever about them.
I'm sure that I'll like Alex' Marauder more than the unseen and the reseen together if he ever designs one.

[Bishop Steiner]

Red squirrel, on 07 December 2013 - 03:58 PM, said:

I'll never understand this argument (although it's been made over and over)
The reseen are reseen and there is no legal whatsoever about them.
I'm sure that I'll like Alex' Marauder more than the unseen and the reseen together if he ever designs one.

unfortunately it IS a bit more complex than that.

The thing with the HG Unseen is two fold. 1) too many people, sadly will not accept anything less than the original, which makes marketability of reseens a dodgy proposition. Project Phoenix proved this, even though I like the reseeen Marauder, TBH.

The other issue is that HG threatens to sue over even spurious claims now, as there is bad blood between HG and the Btech IP. Even if HG would lose, PGI, CGL, FASA before them, simply cannot afford the court battle, and doubly so over a re-design likely to cause as many issues as it solves.

[FireSlade]

Red squirrel, on 07 December 2013 - 03:58 PM, said:

I'll never understand this argument (although it's been made over and over)
The reseen are reseen and there is no legal whatsoever about them.
I'm sure that I'll like Alex' Marauder more than the unseen and the reseen together if he ever designs one.

I think that the fear is that they will go after any mech named Marauder even if it was a 4 legged design that looked nothing like the original. HG obviously has no qualms with suing over rights even when it looks nothing like theirs (they went after Hasbro over a transformer). They may just do it to since PGI is new and they can pick on the new guy. Anyone notice yet that the Jagermech looks just like the unseen Rifleman?

[Bishop Steiner]

FireSlade, on 07 December 2013 - 04:07 PM, said:

I think that the fear is that they will go after any mech named Marauder even if it was a 4 legged design that looked nothing like the original. HG obviously has no qualms with suing over rights even when it looks nothing like theirs (they went after Hasbro over a transformer). They may just do it to since PGI is new and they can pick on the new guy. Anyone notice yet that the Jagermech looks just like the unseen Rifleman?

big time from behind

[Whatzituyah]

FireSlade, on 07 December 2013 - 04:07 PM, said:

I think that the fear is that they will go after any mech named Marauder even if it was a 4 legged design that looked nothing like the original. HG obviously has no qualms with suing over rights even when it looks nothing like theirs (they went after Hasbro over a transformer). They may just do it to since PGI is new and they can pick on the new guy. Anyone notice yet that the Jagermech looks just like the unseen Rifleman?

And Thunderbolt looks just like The Summoner yeah I do.

[Red squirrel]

Bishop Steiner, on 07 December 2013 - 04:03 PM, said:

unfortunately it IS a bit more complex than that.

The thing with the HG Unseen is two fold. 1) too many people, sadly will not accept anything less than the original, which makes marketability of reseens a dodgy proposition. Project Phoenix proved this, even though I like the reseeen Marauder, TBH.

The other issue is that HG threatens to sue over even spurious claims now, as there is bad blood between HG and the Btech IP. Even if HG would lose, PGI, CGL, FASA before them, simply cannot afford the court battle, and doubly so over a re-design likely to cause as many issues as it solves.

HG should merge with EA and go for world domination I guess.

But as far as I understand the Pheonix Package was extremely well received by the community and lots of cash was thrown at PGI. (I heard claims that there were free drinks involved in the Pheonix release party and that's when someone invented ghost heat)


Edit: Maybe PGI should invent a new mech called the Maraudeur.
(Any resemblance to real mechs, living or cored, is purely coincidental.)

Edited by Red squirrel, 07 December 2013 - 04:24 PM.

[Whatzituyah]

Red squirrel, on 07 December 2013 - 04:20 PM, said:

HG should merge with EA and go for world domination I guess.

But as far as I understand the Pheonix Package was extremely well received by the community and lots of cash was thrown at PGI. (I heard claims that there were free drinks involved in the Pheonix release party and that's when someone invented ghost heat)

How strong of alcohol was it

[Red squirrel]

[Bishop Steiner]

Red squirrel, on 07 December 2013 - 04:20 PM, said:

HG should merge with EA and go for world domination I guess.

But as far as I understand the Pheonix Package was extremely well received by the community and lots of cash was thrown at PGI. (I heard claims that there were free drinks involved in the Pheonix release party and that's when someone invented ghost heat)


Edit: Maybe PGI should invent a new mech called the Maraudeur.
(Any resemblance to real mechs, living or cored, is purely coincidental.)

Phoenix package is not the project phoenix I refer to, which was a TRO for TT, which had reseen ALL the unseen, and generally was universally reviled.

[Odanan]

Bishop Steiner, on 07 December 2013 - 04:50 PM, said:

Phoenix package is not the project phoenix I refer to, which was a TRO for TT, which had reseen ALL the unseen, and generally was universally reviled.

Well, with some exceptions, the art was hideous (thinking about the Shadow Hawk).

[Bishop Steiner]

Odanan, on 07 December 2013 - 05:04 PM, said:

Well, with some exceptions, the art was hideous (thinking about the Shadow Hawk).

Oh, I tend to agree. Though the Phoenix Hawk had potential, and I thought the Thunderbolt and Marauder designs were pretty decent, though they needed much higher quality art. Alex has done them both and IMO, they looked great.

[Odanan]

heheehe changed my signature... toying with gifs (the sky is the limit!)

[Strum Wealh]

Odanan, on 07 December 2013 - 02:46 PM, said:

[/size]
[/list]I don't want to teach the teacher, but are you not forgetting some chassis?

Like Annihilator, Crockett, Daboku, Imp, Marauder II, Shogun and Thug. All of them have some low tech variant at 3039.

There are also some later designs, like the Devastator, Hatamoto-Chi and Mauler.

And not to mention very old designs, not currently not produced, but maybe with some surviving exemplar, like the Emperor, Nightstar, Pillager, Striker, Spartan and Thunder Hawk.

And if you had not cut off the header of that column, it would be noted that the chassis listed are, specifically, those in common use with the Lyran Commonwealth Armed Forces (which, remember, was selected specifically because they tend to favor heavier chassis) from 3028 to 3039.
Just as you could rattle off a list of Assault 'Mechs that might have come up between 3039 and 3050, or that became extinct before 3025, there exist Medium 'Mechs for which the same is true.

Mercenary commands and single units within the House militaries make poor examples since they tend to overspecialize relative to the larger bodies (e.g. there are merc units and House companies that are made up of all Assaults, or all Lights, or all of one specific chassis, and so on).
This is especially true of the Wolf's Dragoons, as they possess a number of designs (including the Assault-class Annihilator as well as the Medium-class Hoplite) that are not in general circulation within the Inner Sphere. The same goes for those 'Mechs that are otherwise extinct outside of the Com Guard.

The fact of the matter is that the BattleTech materials published to date include ~30% more Medium chassis than Assault chassis & ~10% more Medium chassis than Heavy chassis, and two of the five Successor States (and the Inner Sphere at large, on average) field more individual Mediums-weight BattleMechs than any other single weight class.

The question then is, "Should PGI take steps to encourage mirroring a similar set of distributions within MWO, and how far should they go in pursuit of this goal if so?"

[C E Dwyer]

Odanan, on 07 December 2013 - 02:46 PM, said:

[/size]
[/list]I don't want to teach the teacher, but are you not forgetting some chassis?

Like Annihilator, Crockett, Daboku, Imp, Marauder II, Shogun and Thug. All of them have some low tech variant at 3039.

There are also some later designs, like the Devastator, Hatamoto-Chi and Mauler.

And not to mention very old designs, not currently not produced, but maybe with some surviving exemplar, like the Emperor, Nightstar, Pillager, Striker, Spartan and Thunder Hawk.

I think sturm just wanted to miss out most of the dross, kicks the King crab, the longbow, and the striker out with the rest of the garbage

[C E Dwyer]

Red squirrel, on 07 December 2013 - 04:20 PM, said:

HG should merge with EA and go for world domination I guess.

But as far as I understand the Pheonix Package was extremely well received by the community and lots of cash was thrown at PGI. (I heard claims that there were free drinks involved in the Pheonix release party and that's when someone invented ghost heat)


Edit: Maybe PGI should invent a new mech called the Maraudeur.
(Any resemblance to real mechs, living or cored, is purely coincidental.)

I think they should just use the original art and call it Honest Jim's second hand mech (not a Marauder, on my mothers life)

[Strum Wealh]

Cathy, on 08 December 2013 - 10:33 AM, said:

I think sturm just wanted to miss out most of the dross, kicks the King crab, the longbow, and the striker out with the rest of the garbage

The point being debated, IMO, is the prevalence of Mediums in BT vs MWO versus Heavies and/or Assaults in BT vs MWO.

On the day of the release of the Sabre Reinforcement Package, MWO would have 6 Light 'Mechs (5 playable), 9 Medium 'Mechs (9 playable), 7 Heavy 'Mechs (7 playable), and 6 Assault 'Mechs (6 playable). In other words, there would be more Medium chassis to choose from than any other single weight class - as it arguably should be.

The question, then, is whether increasing the prevalence of Mediums (specifically, Mediums other than the Shadow Hawk) in MWO gameplay is a goal that PGI should have, and how they could/should go about doing so if it is indeed a goal they should/do have.

(Also, I did not indicate in the recent discussion with Odanan, either explicitly or intentionally implicitly, that any of the 'mechs were worthless. Additionally, I would recommend treading with care when referring to the KGC as "dross" in a thread where Bishop might be lurking... )