20517 replies to this topic

[ShadowbaneX]

My Shadow Hawks are similar to the last few posted.

My SHD-2H is a bit of a super Enforcer with an AC/10 and an ER LL, although I add a pair of SRM4s for in close brawling.

My SHD-2D2 is very similar to Butane's, but I drop the Heat Sink for an extra ton of LB-10/X ammo. Doesn't make too much difference in the heat department, but sometimes you really need that extra ton of ammo.

My 5M though...I just don't know what to do with it. I ran it as a Gauss sniper for a while, but whenever the Gauss got destroyed, my XL would get destroyed. Then I turned it into a close copy of the 2H, only with a 300 XL, 10 SRM tubes and a pair of MLs. I know lots of people go with the AC/10 & 2 LLs or an jumping Hunchback, but none of those builds appeal to me. There's not enough tonnage to manage a RIfleman build without dropping the engine down...just don't know what to do with the thing. Perhaps I should just run it stockish.

Lastly, about this AC/20 Jumper build, I'm not sure that the ammo with CASE is a good idea over storing it in the legs. Granted, it's more survivable, but if you take a hit there and the ammo cooks off, your AC/20 will be fine, but have no ammo and the MLs will be destroyed, so you're left with no weapons. If you store the ammo in the legs and get either side torso blown off, you still should have something left.

Edited by ShadowbaneX, 08 February 2014 - 11:04 AM.

[FireSlade]

Nathan Foxbane, on 08 February 2014 - 10:57 AM, said:

Why did you mount the extra heat sink outside the engine?

After the 250 engine ratings the extra heat sinks act like 1.4/.14 (cap/dissipation) so when you have the room it is better to put them outside the engine as damage soaks. Crit damage tends to seek the biggest objects so losing a DHS is better than a weapon, ammo (ammo explosion risk), or even equipment like BAP that makes you vulnerable to ECM.

[Odanan]

Butane9000, on 08 February 2014 - 04:47 AM, said:

Edit: Odanan, you might want to drop by the first post and clean it up a bit. Some stuff missing, some stuff released since then. etc.

What? Is there something missing?
(and what was released?)

[Butane9000]

Odanan, on 08 February 2014 - 02:40 PM, said:

What? Is there something missing?
(and what was released?)

Wolverine, Griffin etc?

[ssm]

Odanan, on 08 February 2014 - 02:40 PM, said:

What? Is there something missing?
(and what was released?)

Went there to check, and saw the link to this post, and because I haven't seen it before, and it deserves answering, here's my pointers:

Problems with MW4 being "true Battletech":
1- the modeling was actually inferior to MW3;
Debatable.

2- no respect for the Battletech dark, grim future (in terms of art direction);
Battletech "grim, dark future" was always kinda tongue-in-cheek, due to incredibly clownish look of most TRO BT designs. In terms of art direction, closest MW game to it is MWO, followed by MW4 and MW3.

3- no respect for the Battletech lore* (every low mechwarrior had a Clan mech - it's like in a WW1 game giving King Tiger tanks and Me 262 jet fighters to the Austro-Hungarians);
That's how you make fun campaign. You slowly introduce better mech to either fight in or with, and with BT you just have to bump into Clan Omnis along the way.

4- Steiner/Davion centralized;
Campaigns in FPS shooters aren't really venue to introduce convoluted politics. But MW4:Mercs did - that game actually better did justice to realistic politcal conficts than BT lore, with it's black-white "Katrina is EVIL, because she's EVIL". You didn't really have to make choice until very late in game, and all accompanying fluff was kinda non-judgemantal.

5- the devs changed the stats of ALL weapons, the loadout of ALL mechs;
Agreed.

6- ugly customization system (even if better than MW2 and MW3 because of the necessary restrictions - but much inferior to MWO);
Agreed.

7- the game raised (corrupted) a generation of players who missed the best and most iconic of Battletech (the Succession Wars and - debatable - the Clan Invasion), in terms of lore, mechs, game system, characters and politics. The worst is: you can't save these players anymore.
What is "best and most iconic of Battletech" is subjective at best, and certainly it isn't convincing argument about whether something is "True Battetech". I personally prefer Clan Omnis and post Clan-Invasion mechs to Macross Gundams. But I won't ever claim that my opinion in that regards reflects what is "best and iconic", not to mention "true" about Battletech.

[Odanan]

ssm, on 08 February 2014 - 05:04 PM, said:

Went there to check, and saw the link to this post, and because I haven't seen it before, and it deserves answering, here's my pointers:

Problems with MW4 being "true Battletech":
1- the modeling was actually inferior to MW3;
Debatable.

2- no respect for the Battletech dark, grim future (in terms of art direction);
Battletech "grim, dark future" was always kinda tongue-in-cheek, due to incredibly clownish look of most TRO BT designs. In terms of art direction, closest MW game to it is MWO, followed by MW4 and MW3.

3- no respect for the Battletech lore* (every low mechwarrior had a Clan mech - it's like in a WW1 game giving King Tiger tanks and Me 262 jet fighters to the Austro-Hungarians);
That's how you make fun campaign. You slowly introduce better mech to either fight in or with, and with BT you just have to bump into Clan Omnis along the way.

4- Steiner/Davion centralized;
Campaigns in FPS shooters aren't really venue to introduce convoluted politics. But MW4:Mercs did - that game actually better did justice to realistic politcal conficts than BT lore, with it's black-white "Katrina is EVIL, because she's EVIL". You didn't really have to make choice until very late in game, and all accompanying fluff was kinda non-judgemantal.

5- the devs changed the stats of ALL weapons, the loadout of ALL mechs;
Agreed.

6- ugly customization system (even if better than MW2 and MW3 because of the necessary restrictions - but much inferior to MWO);
Agreed.

7- the game raised (corrupted) a generation of players who missed the best and most iconic of Battletech (the Succession Wars and - debatable - the Clan Invasion), in terms of lore, mechs, game system, characters and politics. The worst is: you can't save these players anymore.
What is "best and most iconic of Battletech" is subjective at best, and certainly it isn't convincing argument about whether something is "True Battetech". I personally prefer Clan Omnis and post Clan-Invasion mechs to Macross Gundams. But I won't ever claim that my opinion in that regards reflects what is "best and iconic", not to mention "true" about Battletech.

Sure, that was only my (inflamed) opinion, and I would write that differently today.
And yes, I respect your opinion as equally valuable.

My reply:

1- When I first played MW4 I was mortified by the low quality of the textures and the blocky models. I just re-played MW3 to double-check, and for my taste, it looks superior than MW4. Heck, MW3 even had partially-destroyable buildings and deformable terrain. Also, you can dive into water in MW3.

2- They look clownish, but the MWO showed us that is possible to transform that in gold. Also, MW4 had (lazily?) outfits similar to those of the XX Century (jet fighter cockpits, helmets, mics, etc.) instead of anything BT related.

3- Sure, you can increase the challenge that way. It's like Oblivion/Skyrim when you are with an endgame character and every ragged thug in the wilderness has super-powerful magic equipment and lots of gold. I find this an... equivocate approach.
People other than the Clanners shouldn't have several Clan mechs. Specially assault Clan mechs. Specially dozens of assault Clan mechs. (OK, MW3 failed in that too)

4- Sure, but and the other factions? It's like they don't exist. MW4 generation barely knows about Kurita, Marik and Liao.

7- What is the good Battletech is indeed debatable...

When I say MW4 ruined a generation of players is because, thanks to that title, we have guys here asking for:
- Black Knights with ballistic hardpoints;
- Timber Wolves with missile racks as independent location from the side torsos;
- Direwolfs with triple Gauss Rifles (one of them in the CT);
- Uziels, Fafnirs, Mad Cat 2s and a lot of designs that are far away from our timeline.

I played a lot of MW4 and MW4:M (the Solaris championship was terrific). But truly, we should forget these games.

Edited by Odanan, 08 February 2014 - 05:45 PM.

[Odanan]

Butane9000, on 08 February 2014 - 04:29 PM, said:

Wolverine, Griffin etc?

These mechs are not yet available for C-Bills (or did I miss something?)

Odanan, on 27 June 2012 - 10:48 AM, said:

Soon in the game:

- Griffin, 55 tons medium mech (17 December for Phoenix Project, 18 February for C-Bills)
- Wolverine, 55 tons medium mech (17 December for Phoenix Project, 18 March for C-Bills)

[Bishop Steiner]

ssm, on 08 February 2014 - 05:04 PM, said:

What is "best and most iconic of Battletech" is subjective at best, and certainly it isn't convincing argument about whether something is "True Battetech". I personally prefer Clan Omnis and post Clan-Invasion mechs to Macross Gundams. But I won't ever claim that my opinion in that regards reflects what is "best and iconic", not to mention "true" about Battletech.

Eh, OK. maybe it's subjective, though there were plenty of non gundam Mechs, and TBH, it wasn't even the mechs as much as the game mechanics were actually balanced with the classic designs, whereas even Jordan Weisman (the creator of the game) admits that they borked balance all to hell with Clan Tech and that a lot of their design choices really weren't very good (even if the original omni concept arts were good).

[ssm]

And again, mine:

1- When I first played MW4 I was mortified by the low quality of the textures and the blocky models. I just re-played MW3 to double-check, and for my taste, it looks superior than MW4. Heck, MW3 even had partially-destroyable buildings and deformable terrain. Also, you can dive into water in MW3.
Well, textures were fixed later by Mektek, and as for the destroyable buildings and terrain - MWO has neither. Better the graphics, more potential performance problems with things like that.

2- They look clownish, but the MWO showed us that is possible to transform that in gold. Also, MW4 had (lazily?) outfits similar to those of the XX Century (jet fighter cockpits, helmets, mics, etc.) instead of anything BT related.

BT Related? :


For the sake of MW game live acting intro, I'd rather go with XX Century helmets and mics. Agreed on the MWO thing.

3- Sure, you can increase the challenge that way. It's like Oblivion/Skyrim when you are with an endgame character and every ragged thug in the wilderness has super-powerful magic equipment and lots of gold. I find this an... equivocate approach.
People other than the Clanners shouldn't have several Clan mechs. Specially assault Clan mechs. Specially dozens of assault Clan mechs. (OK, MW3 failed in that too)
Well, you couldn't really done it another way without making gamplay somewhat boring and repetitive. Power creep is the best way to increase threat level (and thus, challenge) in single player MW title, and best way make it fun is put some bigger, meanier mechs.

4- Sure, but and the other factions? It's like they don't exist. MW4 generation barely knows about Kurita, Marik and Liao.
Well, the whole MW4: Mercs campaign was centered around FedCom Civil war for obvious reasons. You were the Merc, and there was a FedCom war going.

7- What is the good Battletech is indeed debatable...

When I say MW4 ruined a generation of players is because, thanks to that title, we have guys here asking for:
- Black Knights with ballistic hardpoints;
- Timber Wolves with missile racks as independent location from the side torsos;
- Direwolfs with triple Gauss Rifles (one of them in the CT);
- Uziels, Fafnirs, Mad Cat 2s and a lot of designs that are far away from our timeline.
Well, I agree on the loadouts thing but players asking about things like that ain't really a problem, especially one that would make them "ruined". On the other hand - I'd like to pilot Fafnir in this title, and rather have few timeline forward jumps than don't be able to do that at all.

I played a lot of MW4 and MW4:M (the Solaris championship was terrific). But truly, we should forget these games.
Nah, we shouldn't. MW4: Mercs Campaign is, to this day, a pinnacle of BT single player experience, and more importantly - it's still runs on modern systems and looks good enough to immerse potential new BT players.

Bishop Steiner, on 08 February 2014 - 06:19 PM, said:

Eh, OK. maybe it's subjective, though there were plenty of non gundam Mechs, and TBH, it wasn't even the mechs as much as the game mechanics were actually balanced with the classic designs, whereas even Jordan Weisman (the creator of the game) admits that they borked balance all to hell with Clan Tech and that a lot of their design choices really weren't very good (even if the original omni concept arts were good).

I agree - Clans in TT should have been done differently. And whileI kinda got used to them as they are in TT - I appreciate PGi's choice to make them different here than in TT.

[Bishop Steiner]

ssm, on 08 February 2014 - 06:27 PM, said:

And again, mine:

1- When I first played MW4 I was mortified by the low quality of the textures and the blocky models. I just re-played MW3 to double-check, and for my taste, it looks superior than MW4. Heck, MW3 even had partially-destroyable buildings and deformable terrain. Also, you can dive into water in MW3.
Well, textures were fixed later by Mektek, and as for the destroyable buildings and terrain - MWO has neither. Better the graphics, more potential performance problems with things like that.

2- They look clownish, but the MWO showed us that is possible to transform that in gold. Also, MW4 had (lazily?) outfits similar to those of the XX Century (jet fighter cockpits, helmets, mics, etc.) instead of anything BT related.

BT Related? :


For the sake of MW game live acting intro, I'd rather go with XX Century helmets and mics. Agreed on the MWO thing.

3- Sure, you can increase the challenge that way. It's like Oblivion/Skyrim when you are with an endgame character and every ragged thug in the wilderness has super-powerful magic equipment and lots of gold. I find this an... equivocate approach.
People other than the Clanners shouldn't have several Clan mechs. Specially assault Clan mechs. Specially dozens of assault Clan mechs. (OK, MW3 failed in that too)
Well, you couldn't really done it another way without making gamplay somewhat boring and repetitive. Power creep is the best way to increase threat level (and thus, challenge) in single player MW title, and best way make it fun is put some bigger, meanier mechs.

4- Sure, but and the other factions? It's like they don't exist. MW4 generation barely knows about Kurita, Marik and Liao.
Well, the whole MW4: Mercs campaign was centered around FedCom Civil war for obvious reasons. You were the Merc, and there was a FedCom war going.

7- What is the good Battletech is indeed debatable...

When I say MW4 ruined a generation of players is because, thanks to that title, we have guys here asking for:
- Black Knights with ballistic hardpoints;
- Timber Wolves with missile racks as independent location from the side torsos;
- Direwolfs with triple Gauss Rifles (one of them in the CT);
- Uziels, Fafnirs, Mad Cat 2s and a lot of designs that are far away from our timeline.
Well, I agree on the loadouts thing but players asking about things like that ain't really a problem, especially one that would make them "ruined". On the other hand - I'd like to pilot Fafnir in this title, and rather have few timeline forward jumps than don't be able to do that at all.

I played a lot of MW4 and MW4:M (the Solaris championship was terrific). But truly, we should forget these games.
Nah, we shouldn't. MW4: Mercs Campaign is, to this day, a pinnacle of BT single player experience, and more importantly - it's still runs on modern systems and looks good enough to immerse potential new BT players.


I agree - Clans in TT should have been done differently. And whileI kinda got used to them as they are in TT - I appreciate PGi's choice to make them different here than in TT.

Yup. Actually had a chance to chat with Randall Bills at launch to some length about the implementation of clan tech. He introduced weapons like the Heavy Lasers because they fit more with the honor dueling mythology than ultra elegant sniper weapons in a society that viewed long range snipefests as dishonorable. (Hell, they should ban players how poptart regularly from playing clan mechs, since the Clans would consider those people dezgra. Maybe the Clans ARE right about something!!!!!)

And I don't know how successful Paul and company will be, but I totally applaud the guts it took to buck the trend and try to actually make Clan Tech not the uber essential power creep it was in previous MW (and TT) titles. Sad truth is, there is almost no way the epeen brigades of FOS kiddies will allow for the numeric disparity needed to balance the original clan tech to fair fights (and lets face it, in an FPS with pinpoint damage, the numbers are a much bigger advantage than the tech).

So will be curious to see where it goes. At some point, I might have to capture a Summoner. It will be a much higher priority if they actually stretch the legs of the in game model to give it the proper dimensions from TT though. The concept art for it leaves me a little MEH.

[Hexenhammer]

ssm, on 08 February 2014 - 06:27 PM, said:

I agree - Clans in TT should have been done differently. And whileI kinda got used to them as they are in TT - I appreciate PGi's choice to make them different here than in TT.

Its time for PGI to go its own way with Battletech and make Mechwarrior its own. Its the only way this game can grow.

[Bishop Steiner]

Hexenhammer, on 08 February 2014 - 06:36 PM, said:

Its time for PGI to go its own way with Battletech and make Mechwarrior its own. Its the only way this game can grow.

yeah, thanks, but past some basic balancing needs, I'll pass. Part of the point of an IP is to be able to recognize the IP. Too much of what the forums want is to turn this game into generic mech game online, or basically CoD where one wears "mechs" instead of uniforms. I think Paul is (potentially) on the right path for walking that razors edge in this regard.

[Butane9000]

I dunno about you guys but I'd love to see another MechCommander. With MWO's models & animations it would be amazing!

Edit: Sorry I suddenly thought about MechCommander and imagining it with Mechwarrior Online mechs.

That being said....

Bishop Steiner, on 08 February 2014 - 06:51 PM, said:

yeah, thanks, but past some basic balancing needs, I'll pass. Part of the point of an IP is to be able to recognize the IP. Too much of what the forums want is to turn this game into generic mech game online, or basically CoD where one wears "mechs" instead of uniforms. I think Paul is (potentially) on the right path for walking that razors edge in this regard.

I agree with Bishop. In the future if the game lasts long enough I'd like to see some unique stuff from PGI but we've got plenty of content currently available and that will be available in the next couple years. Such as:

Commando COM-5S - Upgraded with Star League tech. SRM-6 + Artemis and a Streak SRM2 replace the regular SRM6 and SRM4.

Dart 25 Ton Light Battlemech - 3 variants the 3S, 4S and 6S.

Raptor 25 Ton Light Omnimech (Inner Sphere) - 5 Variants

Spider SDR-7M - Star League upgrade. 2x Medium Pulse Lasers, Endo Steel and Ferro Fibrous.

Raven RVN-3M - Changes the 3L loadout to a LRM15, 2x Small Laser, 1x Small Pulse Laser and NARC.

Cicada CDA-3F - Star league Upgrade. Endo Steel, Ferro-Fibrous, XL Engine. Replaces the armament with an ERPPC and 2 Medium lasers and comes with jump jets.

Blackjack BJ-2 - Comes with Double Heat sinks, 2 ER Large Lasers and 4 Streak SRM2 launchers.

Wolverine WVR-7D - Major upgrade to the chassis. XL Engine, Ferro-Fibrous and MASC. Upgrades the AC5 and Medium laser to a UAC5 and Medium Pulse Laser. Retains it's Jump jets and SRM6.

Wolverin WVR-7M - XL Engine, Double Heat Sinks and runs 2 ER Large Lasers, 2 Medium Pulse Lasers and a SRM6.

Cataphract CTF-3L - MASC, XL Engine and Double Heat Sinks. ERPPC, LBX10 4 medium Pulse Lasers.

Battlemaster BLR-3S - XL Engine, LRM20, SRM6 and 6 Medium Pulse Lasers.

And on the Clan side of things:

Fire Falcon 25 ton Light Omnimech

Uller variants S & W.
S - Jump Jets. Armament: Large Pulse Laser, Medium Pulse Laser, Small Pulse Laser, Streak SRM4 and two Machine Guns.
W - Two Large Pulse Lasers and two Medium Pulse Lasers.

Phantom 40 ton Medium Omnimech

Pouncer 40 ton Medium Omnimech

Grendel 45 ton Medium Omnimech

Black Lanner 55 ton Medium Omnimech

Linebacker 65 ton Heavy Omnimech

Summoner M - Replaced Prime loadouts LRM15 with a Streak SRM6 and Small Pulse Laser. Retains the ERPPC and LBX10.

Timber Wolf S - 1x Large Pulse Laser, 2x Medium Pulse Lasers, 2x Machine Guns and 4x SRM6.

Night Gyr 75 ton Heavy Omnimech
Turkina 95 ton Assault Omnimech

So yea. Lots to look forward too. Then we also have regular variants that are already available for certain mechs that haven't been added. Like the HBk-4N and CN9-AH.

Edited by Butane9000, 09 February 2014 - 09:10 PM.

[Devil Fox]

Butane9000, on 09 February 2014 - 07:54 PM, said:

I dunno about you guys but I'd love to see another MechCommander. With MWO's models & animations it would be amazing!

The 13th man... Dropship Commander for the Defending or Attacking force >.>

[CDLord HHGD]

I'd LOVE to see a MechCommander variant with MWO art. I'd also like to see them add aerospace combat too. Totally separate from the ground combat but using the same/similar rules. Even fleet actions with dropships, jumpships, and warships.

[SgtMagor]

my memory is lacking these days, but wasn't there a MechWarrior game where you had to battle in zero gravity on the hull of a drop ship or something like it. now i'm not sure it was a mecha game but I'm thinking around 15 years ago maybe more.

Edited by SgtMagor, 10 February 2014 - 06:30 AM.

[Odanan]

SgtMagor, on 10 February 2014 - 06:29 AM, said:

my memory is lacking these days, but wasn't there a MechWarrior game where you had to battle in zero gravity on the hull of a drop ship or something like it. now i'm not sure it was a mecha game but I'm thinking around 15 years ago maybe more.

MW2: Ghost Bear Legacy and MW2: Mercenaries had both combat in space. GBL had even an entire map underwater.

[Bishop Steiner]

Odanan, on 10 February 2014 - 09:45 AM, said:

MW2: Ghost Bear Legacy and MW2: Mercenaries had both combat in space. GBL had even an entire map underwater.

i got to get GBL working on my computer-

[Odanan]

Bishop Steiner, on 10 February 2014 - 09:51 AM, said:

i got to get GBL working on my computer-

I got it too (tough I can't change the loadout of my mechs).

[Odanan]

Bishop, if you are playing GBL, don't forget to always run a mech with jump. You will need it in a later mission (one of the missions in space).