20517 replies to this topic

[Bishop Steiner]

Strum Wealh, on 23 April 2014 - 11:43 AM, said:

It'll be interesting to see how they set up the hitboxes, especially with regard to the Head (all that glass!) and the torso (particularly with regard to the "shroud"/"hood").

a slight re-size like this would make me buy them in a heart beat.

[MonkeyDCecil]

Bishop Steiner, on 23 April 2014 - 12:02 PM, said:

a slight re-size like this would make me buy them in a heart beat.

I can not see the difference. But I agree with your Catapult thread.

As for the Adder. Now that is a good looking clan mech. Unlike the Timber Wolf.

[AlmightyAeng]

MonkeyDCecil, on 23 April 2014 - 12:06 PM, said:

I can not see the difference. But I agree with your Catapult thread.

As for the Adder. Now that is a good looking clan mech. Unlike the Timber Wolf.

Can't wait to see what hitbox the 'hood' counts as. HUGE target. *drool*

[Bishop Steiner]

cdlord, on 23 April 2014 - 11:18 AM, said:

*Clantech

clan tech is a 13% (roughly) reduction in weight and 33% reduction in critical space. Not a 75% reduction (which is being generous, the Firestarters are possibly LESS than that percentage of the Banshee's PPC)

Edited by Bishop Steiner, 23 April 2014 - 12:11 PM.

[Bishop Steiner]

MonkeyDCecil, on 23 April 2014 - 12:06 PM, said:

I can not see the difference. But I agree with your Catapult thread.

As for the Adder. Now that is a good looking clan mech. Unlike the Timber Wolf.

can you see it now?

Ghost Badger, on 23 April 2014 - 12:08 PM, said:

Can't wait to see what hitbox the 'hood' counts as. HUGE target. *drool*

mostly ST. And clan XLs don't auto kill you when popped cuz only 2 side crits.

FupDup, on 23 April 2014 - 11:17 AM, said:

Huh? I can get that some mechs like the Firestarter in particular have way too tiny of PPCs, but the Adder? The light mech restricted to 97.2 kph and heavily dependent on very high-heat weapons like the Clan ERPPC? The little guy is probably going to be gimped enough as it is.

I think you are thinking about it wrong. LIttle guy is going to be slow. Hence he needs all the survivability he can get. Selling off a PPC arm to stop incoming fire from the torso is a GOOD thing. Biggest knock is how little torso the arms actually cover, so it will only really matter from low shots. But almost nobody intentionally aims for arms unless it's a YLW or CAT......a and then I would still rather core CT.

Edited by Bishop Steiner, 23 April 2014 - 12:19 PM.

[FupDup]

Bishop Steiner, on 23 April 2014 - 12:17 PM, said:

I think you are thinking about it wrong. LIttle guy is going to be slow. Hence he needs all the survivability he can get. Selling off a PPC arm to stop incoming fire from the torso is a GOOD thing.

There's a fine line between arms that are good for soaking, and arms that get removed instantly. Take, for example, the new geometry Catapult ears and the Trebuchet arms. Both take a lot of hits, but since most of their guns are in those arms, they tend to have a bad time. Ideally, you want arms that take hits but can also be shielded well, such as the Shadow Hawk, Griffin, Victor, etc.

The Firestarter can get away with it because it's fast and has a lot of torso weapons. The Adder...gets a CT Flamer.

[Bishop Steiner]

FupDup, on 23 April 2014 - 12:21 PM, said:

There's a fine line between arms that are good for soaking, and arms that get removed instantly. Take, for example, the new geometry Catapult ears and the Trebuchet arms. Both take a lot of hits, but since most of their guns are in those arms, they tend to have a bad time. Ideally, you want arms that take hits but can also be shielded well, such as the Shadow Hawk, Griffin, Victor, etc.

The Firestarter can get away with it because it's fast and has a lot of torso weapons. The Adder...gets a CT Flamer.

rather still have them shooting at my arm, and taking half my guns, then my ct and killing me outright. Lights in particular can't take that CT punishment.

And it's a clantech flamer. Obviously it will be very dangerous!

Edited by Bishop Steiner, 23 April 2014 - 12:23 PM.

[FupDup]

Bishop Steiner, on 23 April 2014 - 12:23 PM, said:

rather still have them shooting at my arm, and taking half my guns, then my ct and killing me outright. Lights in particular can't take that CT punishment.

And it's a clantech flamer. Obviously it will be very dangerous!

Maybe it'll be twice as powerful as the CT Flamer on my Stalker!


Although, there are some variants with side torso weapons, so I guess I could put the PPCs there...

[Cimarb]

FupDup, on 23 April 2014 - 11:17 AM, said:

Huh? I can get that some mechs like the Firestarter in particular have way too tiny of PPCs, but the Adder? The light mech restricted to 97.2 kph and heavily dependent on very high-heat weapons like the Clan ERPPC? The little guy is probably going to be gimped enough as it is.

A PPC should be a PPC, regardless of what mech it is equipped on. That is the whole point.

FupDup, on 23 April 2014 - 12:28 PM, said:

Maybe it'll be twice as powerful as the CT Flamer on my Stalker!


Although, there are some variants with side torso weapons, so I guess I could put the PPCs there...

That is one awesome video, lol. Flamers don't still work like that, do they? Seems weird that they don't create any heat unless they are hitting an opponent too...

[Nyte Kitsune]

MonkeyDCecil, on 23 April 2014 - 12:06 PM, said:

I can not see the difference. But I agree with your Catapult thread.

As for the Adder. Now that is a good looking clan mech. Unlike the Timber Wolf.

What?!? Unlike the Timberwolf (Mad Cat)? I rather like their take on it. What I don't like is the 55$ Price tag to buy one (Or any other Omni for that matter). I do agree that the Adder (Puma) looks great though. Its one of my 3 Favorite Omni's, the other 2 being the Timberwolf (Madcat) and the Warhawk (Masakari). Still, assuming I find work soon I'll likely grin and bear the outrageous price tag and buy a few Omni's.

[Bishop Steiner]

Sstaan, on 23 April 2014 - 01:32 PM, said:

What?!? Unlike the Timberwolf (Mad Cat)? I rather like their take on it. What I don't like is the 55$ Price tag to buy one (Or any other Omni for that matter). I do agree that the Adder (Puma) looks great though. Its one of my 3 Favorite Omni's, the other 2 being the Timberwolf (Madcat) and the Warhawk (Masakari). Still, assuming I find work soon I'll likely grin and bear the outrageous price tag and buy a few Omni's.

well, in fairness, does not buying a la carte net 3 Mechs, instead of 1? I have not looked into buying them, but I know in the actual packs, you are purchasing 3 of each. That would put it at about 18 bucks a chassis, which while not cheap, is not bad, considering the cost of Heros and such.

And they bloody well should be more expensive than IS mechs, at least to some degree (also depending on how nerfed the weapons end up being)

I think what gets me is that a la carte, I can get 3 TimberWolves, for 55 buck, or 3 DireWolves or 3 FitFox. There Is no difference for mech class or weight, which I do think is silly.

Edited by Bishop Steiner, 23 April 2014 - 01:36 PM.

[Ovion]

Sstaan, on 23 April 2014 - 01:32 PM, said:

What?!? Unlike the Timberwolf (Mad Cat)? I rather like their take on it. What I don't like is the 55$ Price tag to buy one (Or any other Omni for that matter). I do agree that the Adder (Puma) looks great though. Its one of my 3 Favorite Omni's, the other 2 being the Timberwolf (Madcat) and the Warhawk (Masakari). Still, assuming I find work soon I'll likely grin and bear the outrageous price tag and buy a few Omni's.

So far, all the mechs have been pretty close to the TT prices (+/-10%).
Everyone I checked, was close.
Adding in MC and £ costs (I cba to do dollars, as my excel sheet is in real money )

Kit Fox (Uller) - 30T - 5.4 million C-Bills / 2160 MC. (£6.43 each, £19.30 for 3)

Adder (Puma) - 35T - 7 million C-Bills / 2800 MC. (£8.34, each £25.01 for 3)

Nova (Black Hawk) - 50T - 11.5 million C-Bills / 4600 MC. (£13.70, each £41.09 for 3)

Stormcrow (Ryoken) - 55T - 14.8 million C-Bills / 5925 MC. (£17.63, each £52.89 for 3)

Summoner (Thor) - 70T - 21.3 million C-Bills / 8525 MC. (£25.37, each £76.11 for 3)

Timber Wolf (Mad Cat) - 75T - 24.2 million C-Bills / 9685 MC. (£28.83, each £86.48 for 3)

Warhawk (Masakari) - 85T - 26.4 million C-Bills / 10565 MC. (£31.45, each £94.34 for 3)

Dire Wolf (Daishi) - 100T - 29.4 million C-Bills / 11765 MC. (£35.02, each £105.06 for 3)

Uller Collection £17.87
Masakari Collection £142.95
A La Carte £32.76

All of them for MC post release £500.28
Buying the Kitfox or Adder a la carte would be dumb.
One has a cheaper pack already, and both will be cheaper for MC.

Other than that, it's all cheaper than it likely will be for MC.

All numbers apart from current pack costs are estimated based on current trends, and may not match actual costs.

[Onmyoudo]

Considering the Daishi is going to dominate the battlefield, it's a shame to see it (potentially) costing three times as much as an Atlas - score one for those long-time players who have millions of c-bills banked. Not to mention the fact that you can't even resell the XLs as you're stuck with the engine! I really wish that standard mechs in this game were more feasible to buy with MC.

Edit: PLUS you're gonna have to buy different arm/torso components for loadouts, and who knows how much they'll cost.

Edited by Onmyoudo, 24 April 2014 - 06:44 AM.

[Ovion]

Tell me about it.
I don't want a Dire Wolf, but if I did it'd take me roughly 450 matchs to get and kit it out.
Roughly 70-80 hours of gameplay.
(I never claimed I was a very good pilot Someone decent would likely take 250-300 matches, which is still 40-50 hours of gameplay)

I do want a Timberwolf though, and that's going to be twice as hard as it is to get an atlas.
Hell, even the lights will be harder to get than my Catapults!

But hey ho, it is what it is.

[Bishop Steiner]

Ovion, on 24 April 2014 - 06:39 AM, said:

Tell me about it.
I don't want a Dire Wolf, but if I did it'd take me roughly 450 matchs to get and kit it out.
Roughly 70-80 hours of gameplay.
(I never claimed I was a very good pilot Someone decent would likely take 250-300 matches, which is still 40-50 hours of gameplay)

I do want a Timberwolf though, and that's going to be twice as hard as it is to get an atlas.
Hell, even the lights will be harder to get than my Catapults!

But hey ho, it is what it is.

well, we are talking about essentially alien tech, only available through battlefield salvage, in what would be a sellers market (every great house will be trying to buy up every bit that is available, or outright claim it as a matter of national security) to which NO ONE available has the knowledge or expertise to adequately maintain or repair, nor is there a channel for new OEM parts for repairs.

If a seller were to appear in WWII selling Modern Equipment, One can be sure a modern medium tank would fetch a much higher premium than the most prized MBT of the time, and the lightest duty Jet Fighter, many times more than a P51 Mustang. And the repair and maintenance issues would be similar. And that is just in 60 years of tech changes. We are talking 250 years. (heck even Korean and Vietnam War Fighters would be a huge investment and headache)

[Cimarb]

Bishop Steiner, on 23 April 2014 - 01:34 PM, said:

well, in fairness, does not buying a la carte net 3 Mechs, instead of 1? I have not looked into buying them, but I know in the actual packs, you are purchasing 3 of each. That would put it at about 18 bucks a chassis, which while not cheap, is not bad, considering the cost of Heros and such.

And they bloody well should be more expensive than IS mechs, at least to some degree (also depending on how nerfed the weapons end up being)

I think what gets me is that a la carte, I can get 3 TimberWolves, for 55 buck, or 3 DireWolves or 3 FitFox. There Is no difference for mech class or weight, which I do think is silly.

I am very happy with my purchase (well, to be honest my wife bought it for me, but still). Everything I hear and see about the Clan package has made me more and more excited about it.

The pricing isn't based upon weight at all, just like the Project Phoenix and Founders packs, but it is still an immensely good deal compared to post-release costs, as Ovion detailed very well. Just don't buy the ala carte packs: you do get 1 prime + 2 standard, but unless you want only one of the "higher tier" chassis, it's much more economical to buy the packages.

[Onmyoudo]

Bishop Steiner, on 24 April 2014 - 06:44 AM, said:

well, we are talking about essentially alien tech, only available through battlefield salvage, in what would be a sellers market (every great house will be trying to buy up every bit that is available, or outright claim it as a matter of national security) to which NO ONE available has the knowledge or expertise to adequately maintain or repair, nor is there a channel for new OEM parts for repairs.

If a seller were to appear in WWII selling Modern Equipment, One can be sure a modern medium tank would fetch a much higher premium than the most prized MBT of the time, and the lightest duty Jet Fighter, many times more than a P51 Mustang. And the repair and maintenance issues would be similar. And that is just in 60 years of tech changes. We are talking 250 years. (heck even Korean and Vietnam War Fighters would be a huge investment and headache)

Fair enough. Not to say it isn't valid already, but I can't help but feel this argument would be more valid if there was any kind of similar narrative in the game - other than "there's these other mechs which aren't necessarily better in gameplay terms but cost three times as much".

Edit: Also, as Ovion points out below me, it was originally the MC cost for all mechs across the board which we felt was too high, rather than c-bill costs.

Edited by Onmyoudo, 24 April 2014 - 08:27 AM.

[Ovion]

Yeah.
I'm not really complaining about the c-bill cost persay (though I still feel the £ cost of everything apart from Mechbays is at least twice what it should be), and I understand the why, it's just a bit of a daunting grind.

And I think that you make a fair point Onmyyoudo.
If the Loading Screens were all sort of.. splash screens with the history of the universe, the current story, and when the clans come in, add in more about them, that's all cryptic and unknowns.


You could then further improve immersion and tie in to the story by having a Store tab and a Black Market tab.
Where the Store has 'commonly available' gear and chasis, both general and for your faction (tying in to CW and all that jazz).
Things like the Locust, Small Lasers, Medium Lasers, etc, would be always in the Store for example, even for Mercs / Lone Wolves, then Factions will have other mechs/gear in there too.

Then the Black Market would have things that are 'hard to get', and slightly more expensive non-faction mechs, rare chasis, weapons and equipment, maybe even special or alternate Ammo at a premium rate (AP or Incediary rounds for example, though that's a whole different idea).
Put the MC Only modules and such here too I'd say.

[FupDup]

I really wish they would have allowed us to mix-and-match the Clan mechs to form our own tiers, rather than having pre-defined packages and really high a la carte costs. After you reach a certain threshold of mechs ordered, you'd then gain more of the special gimmick items (i.e. have to have at least 5 mechs to get warhorns, just like the Puma package right now).

I don't want to buy the normal packs because I'd have to go pretty darn high to get the mechs I want (namely, Puma, Mad Cat, and Ryoken, maybe Warhawk) but I'd end up with a bunch of mechs that I wouldn't want in the process (i.e. Daishi too slow for my tastes) and it would take me an eternity to grind all 8 chassis. But, if I went a la carte, I wouldn't get the bells and whistles (i.e. mysterious unique bonus modules) of buying the same number of mechs via a package and I'd have to pay more in the end.

It's one of the main factors that has stopped me from making a purchase so far (next to not knowing the exact stats of certain items). Why can't 1 mech just = 1 mech (in terms of monies) for these kind of crowdfunding sales? Sadface.

Edited by FupDup, 24 April 2014 - 08:48 AM.

[Cimarb]

FupDup, on 24 April 2014 - 08:47 AM, said:

I really wish they would have allowed us to mix-and-match the Clan mechs to form our own tiers, rather than having pre-defined packages and really high a la carte costs. After you reach a certain threshold of mechs ordered, you'd then gain more of the special gimmick items (i.e. have to have at least 5 mechs to get warhorns, just like the Puma package right now).

I don't want to buy the normal packs because I'd have to go pretty darn high to get the mechs I want (namely, Puma, Mad Cat, and Ryoken, maybe Warhawk) but I'd end up with a bunch of mechs that I wouldn't want in the process (i.e. Daishi too slow for my tastes) and it would take me an eternity to grind all 8 chassis. But, if I went a la carte, I wouldn't get the bells and whistles (i.e. mysterious unique bonus modules) of buying the same number of mechs via a package and I'd have to pay more in the end.

It's one of the main factors that has stopped me from making a purchase so far (next to not knowing the exact stats of certain items). Why can't 1 mech just = 1 mech (in terms of monies) for these kind of crowdfunding sales? Sadface.

I have been surprised enough by the mechs that I actually like PILOTING, as opposed to what I think looks the coolest, so I am getting the whole thing just to make sure I don't miss my "Sweet Spot" mech.

That being said, I think if they had made the packages like this it would have been more customer-friendly, though I totally understand why they tiered them the way they did, based upon popularity.

Tier 1: "choose 1 light"
Tier 2: "choose 1 medium" + tier 1
Tier 3: "choose 1 heavy" + tier 1 & 2
Tier 4: "choose 1 assault" + tier 1, 2 & 3
Tier 5: "choose 1 light" + tier 1, 2, 3 and 4
Etc.

This would have gave a little bit of flexibility in what we purchased, while still giving a reason to get higher tiers if we wanted both heavies, for example. It also would have got more people "in the door", since they could have gotten a Timber Wolf at Tier 3, and once you have made that first purchase, every upgrade after that is easier and easier to justify (do the math, it's a no brainer once you start getting premium time).