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Ultimate Mech Discussion Thread

BattleMech Balance

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#8681 Strum Wealh

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Posted 02 August 2014 - 05:22 AM

View PostSgtMagor, on 02 August 2014 - 04:50 AM, said:

If Microsoft or whoever owns, Battletech, MechWarrior is still using unseen designs or related to unseen battlemechs. does this mean PGI has a chance to use this quad gauss machine in MWO http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Rifleman_III
  • "Only a single prototype was produced after year of development, which was destroyed during for the battle for Terra."
  • "The design was forgotten with exception for rumors of its existence until 3146, when the prototype's wreckage was discovered entombed in a former battle site by Republic of the Sphere archaeologists. Up to this time, no one outside of the Terra was aware of Rifleman III's existence aside from rumor."
  • "For its role to ambush enemy units, the 'Mech was fitted with an experimental Null Signature System which made it difficult to see on sensors."
No, the Rifleman III itself shouldn't show up in MWO anytime soon, if ever. :wub:

On the other hand... if the Rifleman III's design is sufficiently different from that of the Defender Destroid from Macross/Robotech, perhaps it could be an avenue for allowing the original Rifleman to be used? :P :wub:

#8682 FireSlade

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Posted 02 August 2014 - 06:46 AM

View PostStrum Wealh, on 02 August 2014 - 05:22 AM, said:

On the other hand... if the Rifleman III's design is sufficiently different from that of the Defender Destroid from Macross/Robotech, perhaps it could be an avenue for allowing the original Rifleman to be used? :P ^_^

At this point I think that HG has the name Rifleman set to throw up warning flags for them to sue over even if it looks nothing like the original. This is probably PGI's reason for not bringing in the Marauder even though they would make a fortune with it. Alex could make it different enough to satisfy the courts but the name would cause HG to sue and PGI does not have the resources to risk the fight in court. So unless we get mechs by different names, which would start riots, we will never see the HG un/reseen.

Edited by FireSlade, 02 August 2014 - 06:47 AM.


#8683 SgtMagor

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Posted 02 August 2014 - 09:36 AM

NGNG daily Pawn :P... didn't know they had that oi!Posted Image

#8684 FupDup

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Posted 02 August 2014 - 11:19 AM

View PostSgtMagor, on 02 August 2014 - 09:36 AM, said:

NGNG daily Pawn :P... didn't know they had that oi!Posted Image

That AWS-8Q looks to be scaled almost the same as MWO's is! ^_^

#8685 SgtMagor

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Posted 02 August 2014 - 12:37 PM

I really like the big bulky look to mechs. that Awesome makes the MWO Atlas look anorexic.

#8686 Odanan

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Posted 02 August 2014 - 12:40 PM

180 tons Awesome. :P

#8687 Steinar Bergstol

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Posted 03 August 2014 - 10:46 AM

View PostFireSlade, on 02 August 2014 - 06:46 AM, said:

At this point I think that HG has the name Rifleman set to throw up warning flags for them to sue over even if it looks nothing like the original. This is probably PGI's reason for not bringing in the Marauder even though they would make a fortune with it. Alex could make it different enough to satisfy the courts but the name would cause HG to sue and PGI does not have the resources to risk the fight in court. So unless we get mechs by different names, which would start riots, we will never see the HG un/reseen.


Unfortunately I fear you are correct, which pretty much solidifies my desire to see HG burn. If they're willing to make demands of _Hasbro_ over their Jetfire transformer then I'm pretty sure they're every bit the copyright trolls today that they've proven themselves to be in the past. They certainly won't be afraid of bullying a small company like PGI who can't even begin to compare to Hasbro when it comes to the ability to throw money and lawyers at a case to defend their rights.

As much as I want to see the Phoenix Hawk, the Marauder, the Archer, the Crusader and the Warhammer it's just not gonna happen anywhere except my dreams until someone with an utter hatred for HG and the wealth of Bill Gates takes it upon themselves to wipe that bloody company from the surface of the planet. In other words, one of you people better get real rich, real quick! You hear me?

#8688 Gasboy

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Posted 03 August 2014 - 11:22 AM

View PostFireSlade, on 02 August 2014 - 06:46 AM, said:

At this point I think that HG has the name Rifleman set to throw up warning flags for them to sue over even if it looks nothing like the original. This is probably PGI's reason for not bringing in the Marauder even though they would make a fortune with it. Alex could make it different enough to satisfy the courts but the name would cause HG to sue and PGI does not have the resources to risk the fight in court. So unless we get mechs by different names, which would start riots, we will never see the HG un/reseen.


Those who hold the rights to publish Battletech material are entitled to use the name Rifleman. I believe PGI could as well. The problem lays in how different the in game Rifleman is from the Macross destroid. Even the slightest similarity could cause a lawsuit. It comes down to how willing PGI are to fight it. As long as they keep backing down, HG will continue to suppress the unseen/reseen mechs.

That said, still waiting for a Marauder. :P

Also...

Posted Image

Dat nose...

Edited by Gasboy, 03 August 2014 - 11:23 AM.


#8689 wanderer

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Posted 03 August 2014 - 11:36 AM

View PostFireSlade, on 30 July 2014 - 05:05 AM, said:

Oh I just thought of a mech module that I would love to see. Reactive and Reflective armor. Get a 10% damage reduction from ballistics but take 10% more damage from energy and vice versa. They could even add a missile damage reduction module that reduces missile damage by 10% but increases ballistic and energy damage by 5%. It would make tournament matches much more interesting and hurt the meta builds more or less depending on what is taken.


Reactive and reflective armor are, in and of themselves, specific armor types in Battletech. A module would be kinda silly as a result. Reflective shows up in 3058, reactive 3063 (and has the nasty drawback of occasionally self-destructing the entire armor section when damaged).

Really, a lot of tech complaints are simply a matter of being in an early point of the timeline- and heck, we're missing considerable chunks of tech as it is. I'd rather see them add what's currently historically available but not in the Mechlab and actually get the Mechlab able to match TT-construction ability (currently, it's flaws preclude putting in the Urbanmech from kludging engine installation, anything that spilt-locations an AC/20 mount like the King Crab, or uses an Arrow IV launcher) before skipping ahead further and ending up with even more messes.

#8690 FireSlade

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Posted 03 August 2014 - 12:01 PM

View PostGasboy, on 03 August 2014 - 11:22 AM, said:


Those who hold the rights to publish Battletech material are entitled to use the name Rifleman. I believe PGI could as well. The problem lays in how different the in game Rifleman is from the Macross destroid. Even the slightest similarity could cause a lawsuit. It comes down to how willing PGI are to fight it. As long as they keep backing down, HG will continue to suppress the unseen/reseen mechs.

That said, still waiting for a Marauder. :P

Also...

[Picture of a Dragon]

Dat nose...

Yes whoever owns the rights gets to use it but the problem is that HG has either a person (most likely) or a program designed to look for keywords on any new content. So the names Rifleman and Battletech coming up in one of their searches would throw up red flags and they would then prepare a lawsuit. The reason why companies back down is because of the costs of having to pay a lawyer or group of them hourly to fight it out in court which can easily cost $100,000+ and also the bad press. Hasbro backed down rather than fight it out over their Starscream, which they could have easily won, because they figured that a payout would be cheaper than a drawn out court case when they factored in the bad press, court costs, risk of loss, etc. PGI just does not have the resources to risk this.

Also the reason why that I believe that HG looks more at keywords than images is that the Jagermech looks very close to the Rifleman but they have yet to have any complaint thrown at them.

Oh and P.S. Nice Dragon.

View Postwanderer, on 03 August 2014 - 11:36 AM, said:

Reactive and reflective armor are, in and of themselves, specific armor types in Battletech. A module would be kinda silly as a result. Reflective shows up in 3058, reactive 3063 (and has the nasty drawback of occasionally self-destructing the entire armor section when damaged).

Really, a lot of tech complaints are simply a matter of being in an early point of the timeline- and heck, we're missing considerable chunks of tech as it is. I'd rather see them add what's currently historically available but not in the Mechlab and actually get the Mechlab able to match TT-construction ability (currently, it's flaws preclude putting in the Urbanmech from kludging engine installation, anything that spilt-locations an AC/20 mount like the King Crab, or uses an Arrow IV launcher) before skipping ahead further and ending up with even more messes.

Granted they are a little off in the timeline but given the current issues with balance and that they are not adverse to fudging some details (ECM) that it is a possibility. The reason for making the armor a module is that they would be addons to modify the properties of armor. This would fit perfectly with their module system and give us more options to balance things against the meta. Use in tournaments would be: you know that the other team uses ballistics or missiles heavily then you could have your team slap on the counter armor module and you would have an advantage. But the other team could predict this and change their play-style and then turn their disadvantage into their advantage. It makes things more interesting without being OP like ECM.

Also the reason that we do not have the King Crab or the Urbanmech is PGI's lack of foresight. They could easily have added these options into the mech lab when they were designing it but it never occurred to them to consider that we would want those mechs. The King Crab is the easiest for them to add since they can fudge the build a bit and just remove the lower arm actuators and fit a regular AC20 in. It would be no worse than a Dire Wolf or AC40 Jager.

#8691 MonkeyDCecil

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Posted 03 August 2014 - 04:20 PM

View PostSgtMagor, on 02 August 2014 - 09:36 AM, said:

NGNG daily Pawn ;)... didn't know they had that oi!Posted Image

View PostGasboy, on 03 August 2014 - 11:22 AM, said:




Posted Image

Dat nose...


Those are some ugly and way to fat looking for my taste. Hell the original TRO looks better.
http://www.sarna.net...someFactory.jpg
http://www.sarna.net...mech-dragon.png
http://www.sarna.net...3050U_Raven.jpg

#8692 Cimarb

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Posted 04 August 2014 - 05:54 AM

View PostMonkeyDCecil, on 03 August 2014 - 04:20 PM, said:

Those are some ugly and way to fat looking for my taste. Hell the original TRO looks better.
http://www.sarna.net...someFactory.jpg
http://www.sarna.net...mech-dragon.png
http://www.sarna.net...3050U_Raven.jpg

I think they are very good drawings/renders, but I agree that they are not the style I want in MWO. They do not look "functional", IMO, and that is one of the great things about the MWO designs, as they actually look like they could function.

#8693 Reno Blade

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Posted 04 August 2014 - 06:05 AM

View PostSgtMagor, on 01 August 2014 - 06:32 PM, said:

lets think about this Posted Image

These guns look more like PPCs than GRs.
If you take a Firebrand and use 4PPCs this would look very similar.

#8694 FireSlade

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Posted 04 August 2014 - 06:10 AM

View PostReno Blade, on 04 August 2014 - 06:05 AM, said:

These guns look more like PPCs than GRs.
If you take a Firebrand and use 4PPCs this would look very similar.

If you think about it, the functions of a PPC and Gauss Rifle are virtually the same. The differences are heat (makes no sense considering the power needed to launch the projectile), weight, and ammo. Thus I expect them to look similar, but that is the artists interpretation.

#8695 Odanan

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Posted 04 August 2014 - 01:38 PM

View PostSgtMagor, on 01 August 2014 - 05:56 PM, said:

60 ton no jumpjet mech, no thx, happy enough with the Quickdraw. besides we have the Dragon.

There is one jumping variant.
And it is faster than the Dragon/Quickdraw. (besides, there aren't many heavy mechs available at this moment for the game)

Not to mention the Draconis Combine needs more signature mechs (as proved by the Kurita Sales).

PS: come on PGI, hero mech tomorrow!

(even if it is just the Spider)

#8696 Cimarb

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Posted 04 August 2014 - 06:22 PM

Hero Battlemaster and Champ Spider, but close guess.

#8697 Hollow Earth

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Posted 04 August 2014 - 06:23 PM

View PostSgtMagor, on 02 August 2014 - 09:36 AM, said:

Posted Image

That Awesome looks pretty scary and organic. love it though.

View PostFireSlade, on 02 August 2014 - 06:46 AM, said:

At this point I think that HG has the name Rifleman set to throw up warning flags for them to sue over even if it looks nothing like the original. This is probably PGI's reason for not bringing in the Marauder even though they would make a fortune with it. Alex could make it different enough to satisfy the courts but the name would cause HG to sue and PGI does not have the resources to risk the fight in court. So unless we get mechs by different names, which would start riots, we will never see the HG un/reseen.

I've always been wondering and been accepting about the prospect of having their names retconned and given new one assuming HG will be unable to touch it anymore. but seeing how BT purists might backlash and would rather have none instead of a renamed one, basically we are at an impasse.

Edited by Hollow Earth, 04 August 2014 - 06:24 PM.


#8698 Cimarb

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Posted 04 August 2014 - 06:33 PM

View PostHollow Earth, on 04 August 2014 - 06:23 PM, said:

I've always been wondering and been accepting about the prospect of having their names retconned and given new one assuming HG will be unable to touch it anymore. but seeing how BT purists might backlash and would rather have none instead of a renamed one, basically we are at an impasse.

Name an unseen mech, and we already have something "close" but named different.

Marauder = Timber Wolf
Warhammer = Summoner (Hellbringer even more, but not here yet)
Archer = a little more difficult, but Mad Dog will be pretty close

etc.

#8699 BarHaid

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Posted 04 August 2014 - 06:40 PM

View PostCimarb, on 04 August 2014 - 06:33 PM, said:

Name an unseen mech, and we already have something "close" but named different.

Marauder = Timber Wolf
Warhammer = Summoner (Hellbringer even more, but not here yet)
Archer = a little more difficult, but Mad Dog will be pretty close

etc.
Ew, yuck!

#8700 Hollow Earth

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Posted 04 August 2014 - 06:43 PM

View PostCimarb, on 04 August 2014 - 06:33 PM, said:

Name an unseen mech, and we already have something "close" but named different.

Marauder = Timber Wolf
Warhammer = Summoner (Hellbringer even more, but not here yet)
Archer = a little more difficult, but Mad Dog will be pretty close

etc.

Well isn't the Thunderbolt = Summoner?
Now what would be the Longbow? i think i remember something similar of Jade Falcon origin maybe.





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