20517 replies to this topic

[Virlutris]

You know, I'd be geek enough to give the Stooping Hawk a shot along with the Lupus. But the Crossbow and Cobra, not as much.

The trouble I see, which brings up a potentially interesting question, is that the Hawk, and Lupus are fielded by Homebody Clans. Bow and Cobra are technically available as invasion mechs, but only because they're Steel Viper, which only really factored in after the il-Khan re-boot. Kingfisher's probably got the best invasion availability because the Bears were in the mix from the start.

Here's the question: When (if at all) will Homeworld-only or late-arrival mechs likely make their first appearance in MWO?

Every OmniClam and BattleClam we've seen so far has been something that showed up in the Inner Sphere during the invasions, and at or before Tukkayid, with one of the Big 4, right?

Some ClanTech, even including stuff like the Urbie-IIC (Coyotes had them, but practically-speaking, who else?) just wasn't available (lore-wise) until late arrivals like the Ravens and Horses hit the scene. We've got a timeline that allows the Jag now, so it might be more flexible than we've had before.

So when do we guess we might reasonably expect to start seeing 1) Homebody Clan mechs and 2) Late-Arrival Clan mechs? 2017 seems like the earliest, and honestly maybe never, given the other options available.

Edited by Virlutris, 30 December 2015 - 09:28 PM.

[Odanan]

Virlutris, on 30 December 2015 - 04:38 PM, said:

You know, I'd be geek enough to give the Stooping Hawk a shot along with the Lupus. But the Crossbow and Cobra, not as much.

The trouble I see, which brings up a potentially interesting question, is that the Hawk, and Lupus are fielded by Homebody Clans. Bow and Cobra are technically available as invasion mechs, but only because they're Steel Viper, which only really factored in after the il-Khan re-boot. Kingfisher's probably got the best invasion availability because the Bears were in the mix from the start.

Here's the question: When (if at all) will Homeworld-only or late-arrival mechs likely make their first appearance in MWO?

Every OmniClam and BattleClam we've seen so far has been something that showed up in the Inner Sphere during the invasions, and at or before Tukkayid, with one of the Big 4, right?

Some ClanTech, even including stuff like the Urbie-IIC (Coyotes had them, but practically-speaking, who else?) just wasn't available (lore-wise) until late arrivals like the Ravens and Horses hit the scene. We've got a timeline that allows the Jag now, so it might be more flexible than we've had before.

So when do we guess we might reasonably expect to start seeing 1) Homebody Clan mechs and 2) Late-Arrival Clan mechs? 2017 seems like the earliest, and honestly maybe never, given the other options available.

Interesting questions...

UrbanMech IIC for 2017: that's a very safe call.

At this point, I think PGI might add more rare chassis, as long as they exist (or survived) in the timeline. Think about it: who fielded the Kintaro, Black Knight and King Crab by the time of their release, anyway?

We still have some very common stuff left for 2016 (see my guesses), but for 2017 and beyond, PGI will need to either make a time jump or either start to add mechs only TT experts do know. (which is not good for business)

Personally, I think we will see the IS omnimechs and other FedCom Civil War mechs by 2017's end. The mechs from MW4 are too iconic (for a niche of MWO players) to be left out of this game any longer. Hopefully, we might get Solaris (and maybe melee?) before that.

BTW, how do we know who fields the Highlander IIC and the Jenner IIC? I can't find that information.

Edited by Odanan, 31 December 2015 - 02:57 AM.

[Strum Wealh]

Odanan, on 31 December 2015 - 02:56 AM, said:

BTW, how do we know who fields the Highlander IIC and the Jenner IIC? I can't find that information.

"Though every Clan fields this 'Mech in second-line Galaxies, Clan Star Adder deploys the most, largely due to the recent absorption of Clan Burrock and its forces. Some Highlanders serve as command 'Mechs in a few Adder front-line units, notably the Fifth Assault and 73rd Cavaliers Clusters.
Clans Blood Spirit and Wolf also field a significant number of Highlanders, mostly to recoup the heavy losses each Clan recently incurred. Clan Blood Spirit salvaged several from the battlefields of the Absorption War, while Clan Wolf opened one of their last remaining Brian Caches to recommission several Stars' worth. Recent information also indicates that Wolf's Dragoons had several Highlanders when they traveled to the Inner Sphere." - Highlander IIC deployment (source)

"The Jenner IIC appeared in the ranks of the majority of the Clans that took part in the invasion of the Inner Sphere. Of all the Clans, Nova Cat fielded this design most frequently, which suggests that the design originated with Clan Nova Cat and was later distributed to the other Clans." - Jenner IIC deployment (source)

"The Hunchback IIC serves in the front lines of nearly all the invading Clans. Reports indicate that Hunchback pilots attached to front line units seem to fight with a desperate ferocity unique even among the Clans, evidence that supports the idea that the Hunchback IIC is a last chance 'Mech for Clan pilots." (source)

"Clan Wolf produces the Orion IIC in limited numbers, and uses them to reward officers in second-line Galaxies who are expected to advance soon to front-line units. This BattleMech is always sent to its recipients 'with the compliments of' Clan Wolf's Kahn or saKahn. No officer has ever refused such a gift, even if it meant trading in an assault-class BattleMech, and no Wolf warrior has ever challenged anyone for the right to an Orion IIC.
A few Orion IIC BattleMechs traveled to the Inner Sphere with Phelan Kell's Wolves and remain part of Clan-Wolf-in-Exile's second line forces. However, no one seems to have plans to produce this 'Mech - a possible gesture of reconciliation by Phelan Kell toward the Wolf Clan." (source)

[Strum Wealh]

Virlutris, on 30 December 2015 - 04:38 PM, said:

the Urbie-IIC (Coyotes had them, but practically-speaking, who else?)

"The UrbanMech was never very popular with MechWarriors in the Inner Sphere, but the UrbanMech IIC has found a home in several Clans' second-line and freebirth units. The UrbanMech IIC is most popular with Clan Coyote, who have the only manufacturing plant in Clan space producing this 'Mech."
"Both Omicron and Nu Galaxies of Clan Coyote have several units equipped with the UrbanMech IIC. Clans Snow Raven, Ice Hellion and Hell's Horses also field small numbers of the UrbanMech IIC."
(source)

Edited by Strum Wealh, 31 December 2015 - 04:47 AM.

[Strum Wealh]

Bishop Steiner, on 30 December 2015 - 02:05 PM, said:

Does the 'Mech's pose in that image suggest "Jet Set Radio" to anyone else, or is it just me?

[Odanan]

Strum Wealh, on 31 December 2015 - 04:14 AM, said:

(source)
(source)
(source)
(source)

Thanks!

Oh, Solaris7, I could learn to love you if you got rid of those custom mech variants.

[Metus regem]

Odanan, on 31 December 2015 - 08:40 AM, said:

Thanks!

Oh, Solaris7, I could learn to love you if you got rid of those custom mech variants.

If you've got an android phone, there is a grate app called Mech Factory, it gives you TT print out sheets, Mech/vehicle/weapon/house/Clan/people lore as well, and everything is official stuff, even tells you the source books too.

[Virlutris]

Metus regem, on 31 December 2015 - 08:44 AM, said:

If you've got an android phone, there is a grate app called Mech Factory, it gives you TT print out sheets, Mech/vehicle/weapon/house/Clan/people lore as well, and everything is official stuff, even tells you the source books too.

It's basically a shelf (okay, more than one) of source books, but on your phone.

'S nice

[-Skyrider-]

Well I got bored the other day and started to do some math, about my beloved firemoth and what speed it would actually have in the game at this point. What I found was interesting. First by lore the firemoth would go 162kph (masc 216kph) with a 200 xl engine. But based on the mwo engine speed scaling changes already applied to other mechs, like the direwolf running 48.6kph and not like the lore 54kph, you have to scale the speed off of the locust to find its true speed. And based on the locust's speed scaling per every 10 chunk of engine increase, you find that it's speed increases linearly by 8.1kph for every 10 you go up. This can easily be applied from the locust's max engine rating of 190 (153.9kph) to the firemoth's 200 engine to find its base speed. The firemoth's base would then be 162kph. After that you add 7.5% increase for speed tweak and you get 174.15kph for the tweaked speed. Next after looking at how PGI has set up masc in the gmae, the firemoth would only receive a 10% increase in speed from masc. This would put the firemoth's top speed after masc at about 191.6kph. Now is it realistic for the firemoth to be in the game now? Possibly. With the increase in better technology and PGI getting a better handle on cryengine and their servers, this could make the firemoth viable in the near future!

[Odanan]

-Skyrider-, on 31 December 2015 - 12:48 PM, said:

Well I got bored the other day and started to do some math, about my beloved firemoth and what speed it would actually have in the game at this point. What I found was interesting. First by lore the firemoth would go 162kph (masc 216kph) with a 200 xl engine. But based on the mwo engine speed scaling changes already applied to other mechs, like the direwolf running 48.6kph and not like the lore 54kph, you have to scale the speed off of the locust to find its true speed. And based on the locust's speed scaling per every 10 chunk of engine increase, you find that it's speed increases linearly by 8.1kph for every 10 you go up. This can easily be applied from the locust's max engine rating of 190 (153.9kph) to the firemoth's 200 engine to find its base speed. The firemoth's base would then be 162kph. After that you add 7.5% increase for speed tweak and you get 174.15kph for the tweaked speed. Next after looking at how PGI has set up masc in the gmae, the firemoth would only receive a 10% increase in speed from masc. This would put the firemoth's top speed after masc at about 191.6kph. Now is it realistic for the firemoth to be in the game now? Possibly. With the increase in better technology and PGI getting a better handle on cryengine and their servers, this could make the firemoth viable in the near future!

I wouldn't mind if the Fire Moth was released without MASC, really.

[Virlutris]

Odanan, on 31 December 2015 - 02:36 PM, said:

I wouldn't mind if the Fire Moth was released without MASC, really.

Me too. I'd be just as happy to put that extra ton to use for something else, like DHS or armor.

174kph seems close to do-able now. The Summoner has a speed quirk that boosts the top speed, so it's totally conceivable that PGI only needs to quirks it down to whatever the current top-end is.

TDK used to do 171, right? That's only a 2 pct nega-quirk from the maths above. Easy Mode™

[Strum Wealh]

-Skyrider-, on 31 December 2015 - 12:48 PM, said:

Well I got bored the other day and started to do some math, about my beloved firemoth and what speed it would actually have in the game at this point. What I found was interesting. First by lore the firemoth would go 162kph (masc 216kph) with a 200 xl engine. But based on the mwo engine speed scaling changes already applied to other mechs, like the direwolf running 48.6kph and not like the lore 54kph, you have to scale the speed off of the locust to find its true speed. And based on the locust's speed scaling per every 10 chunk of engine increase, you find that it's speed increases linearly by 8.1kph for every 10 you go up. This can easily be applied from the locust's max engine rating of 190 (153.9kph) to the firemoth's 200 engine to find its base speed. The firemoth's base would then be 162kph. After that you add 7.5% increase for speed tweak and you get 174.15kph for the tweaked speed. Next after looking at how PGI has set up masc in the gmae, the firemoth would only receive a 10% increase in speed from masc. This would put the firemoth's top speed after masc at about 191.6kph. Now is it realistic for the firemoth to be in the game now? Possibly. With the increase in better technology and PGI getting a better handle on cryengine and their servers, this could make the firemoth viable in the near future!

It's really a simple system of equations, to determine the speed of any 'Mech with any Engine:
1 TT Movement Point = 1 Hex per Turn = 30 meters per 10 seconds = 3 meters per second = 10.8 kilometers per hour.
Speed Tweak will (as of 12/01/2015) add a 7.5% speed bonus when enabled (see here).

• Walking/Cruise speed:
  
  • Without Speed Tweak: 10.8 * ((Engine Rating)/(/Mech maximum tonnage))
    
  • With Speed Tweak: 1.075 *10.8 * ((Engine Rating)/(/Mech maximum tonnage))
• Running/Flank Speed:
  
  • Without Speed Tweak: 10.8 * 1.5 * ((Engine Rating)/(/Mech maximum tonnage))
    
  • With Speed Tweak: 1.075 * 10.8 * 1.5 * ((Engine Rating)/(/Mech maximum tonnage))

MASC will (as of 06/16/2015) add a 10%-20% speed bonus when installed and active, depending on the size/type of MASC unit installed. (see here), rather than simply doubling the 'Mech's walking speed (as it does in the BattleTech TT game).

The reason the Daishi has a base running speed of 48.6 kph rather than 54.0 kph is that 1.5 * (300/100) = 4.5 MP, and MWO does not round that result up to 5 MP like the BattleTech TT game does.
This is going to be the same for any 'Mech where dividing the stock Engine rating by the 'Mech's tonnage results in an odd number for its walking MP.

The Dasher is a 20-ton 'Mech with a XL 200 Engine, and would come with a fixed "Clan MASC MK I" (which would provide a 10% speed bonus).
Its top speed (running speed with MASC active & speed tweak enabled) would be:
1.10 * 1.075 * 10.8 * 1.5 * (200/20) = 191.565 kph

Skyrider's results are still correct, even if his original method was more roundabout than was needed.

[Virlutris]

Strum Wealh, on 31 December 2015 - 04:27 PM, said:

It's really a simple system of equations, to determine the speed of any 'Mech with any Engine:
1 TT Movement Point = 1 Hex per Turn = 30 meters per 10 seconds = 3 meters per second = 10.8 kilometers per hour.
Speed Tweak will (as of 12/01/2015) add a 7.5% speed bonus when enabled (see here).

• Walking/Cruise speed:
  
  • Without Speed Tweak: 10.8 * ((Engine Rating)/(/Mech maximum tonnage))
    
  • With Speed Tweak: 1.075 *10.8 * ((Engine Rating)/(/Mech maximum tonnage))
• Running/Flank Speed:
  
  • Without Speed Tweak: 10.8 * 1.5 * ((Engine Rating)/(/Mech maximum tonnage))
    
  • With Speed Tweak: 1.075 * 10.8 * 1.5 * ((Engine Rating)/(/Mech maximum tonnage))

MASC will (as of 06/16/2015) add a 10%-20% speed bonus when installed and active, depending on the size/type of MASC unit installed. (see here), rather than simply doubling the 'Mech's walking speed (as it does in the BattleTech TT game).

The reason the Daishi has a base running speed of 48.6 kph rather than 54.0 kph is that 1.5 * (300/100) = 4.5 MP, and MWO does not round that result up to 5 MP like the BattleTech TT game does.
This is going to be the same for any 'Mech where dividing the stock Engine rating by the 'Mech's tonnage results in an odd number for its walking MP.

The Dasher is a 20-ton 'Mech with a XL 200 Engine, and would come with a fixed "Clan MASC MK I" (which would provide a 10% speed bonus).
Its top speed (running speed with MASC active & speed tweak enabled) would be:
1.10 * 1.075 * 10.8 * 1.5 * (200/20) = 191.565 kph

Skyrider's results are still correct, even if his original method was more roundabout than was needed.

Well done, o' maestro of math

Thanks for posting that!

[Metus regem]

I still remember using a full Binary of Fire Moths as cruise missiles.... Was grate fun and hilarity.

[Odanan]

Strum Wealh, on 31 December 2015 - 04:27 PM, said:

It's really a simple system of equations, to determine the speed of any 'Mech with any Engine:

Yeah, right.

[Odanan]

Strum Wealh, on 30 December 2015 - 09:54 AM, said:

I would disagree with that, as there is not a lot of overlap between the Night Gyr (introduced in 3052) and the Nova Cat (introduced in 3059).

The common points are that they have the same starting pod space (38 tons), the same top speed (64.8 kph without Speed Tweak), both make use of Endo-Steel and XL Engines, and both start close to their maximum armor loads.

However:
The Night Gyr makes use of Ferro-Fibrous Armor (starts at 95% of its maximum armor load) while the Nova Cat uses Standard Armor (starts at 99% of its maximum armor load).
The Night Gyr has four Jump Jets hard-wired into every configuration (filling the legs), while the Nova Cat has no hard-wired Jump Jets (and only only two configurations (only one of which is pre-Jihad) use pod space to mount Jump Jets in the side-torso sections).
The Night Gyr has open critical spaces in its head and CT (with some configs having weapon hardpoints in those locations), while the Nova Cat does not (the head and CT are filled with locked Endo-Steel crits).
The Night Gyr starts with one additional locked in-Engine DHS.

Night Gyr 3052 configs:
Prime: ballistics + energy
A: ballistics + energy + missiles
B: ballistics only
C: ballistics + energy
D: energy + missiles

Nova Cat 3059 configs:
Prime: energy only
A: energy only
B: energy + missiles
C: ballistics + energy
D: ballistics + energy (**requires introduction of Heavy Lasers to MWO)

Because I'm bored...

Night Gyr, 75 tons, 64.8 km/h (without speed tweak).
ES, FF, 2 jumpjets in each leg, 2 DHS locked inside the engine, 2 criticals locked in each arm and 5 locked in each side torso.

Night Gyr Prime:

RA 1b
RT 1e
CT
H 1e
LT 1e
LA 2e

Night Gyr A:

RA 1b
RT 1m
CT
H 1e
LT 1m
LA 3e

Night Gyr B:

RA 1b
RT 1b
CT
H
LT 1b
LA 1b

Night Gyr C:

RA 2e
RT
CT
H 1e
LT 1e
LA 3b

Night Gyr D:

RA 1m
RT 1m
CT
H 1e
LT 1m
LA 1m

Nova Cat, 70 tons, 64.8 km/h (without speed tweak).
ES, 1 DHS locked inside the engine; criticals of legs, center torso and head locked by structure.

Nova Cat Prime:

RA 2e
RT
CT
H
LT
LA 3e

Nova Cat A:

RA 2e
RT 2 jumpjets
CT
H
LT 2 jumpjets
LA 2e

Nova Cat B:

RA 3m
RT 1e
CT
H
LT 1e
LA 3m

Nova Cat C:

RA 3b
RT
CT
H
LT
LA 2e

Sorry, MW4 fans, but the Night Gyr is not only the bigger brother but the better brother.
Still, PGI might find a niche for the Nova Cat with some good energy quirks.

Edited by Odanan, 10 February 2016 - 03:34 PM.

[TheArisen]

Odanan, on 31 December 2015 - 07:58 PM, said:

Because I'm bored...

Night Gyr, 75 tons, 64.8 km/h (without speed tweak).
ES, FF, 2 jumpjets in each leg, 2 DHS locked inside the engine, 2 criticals locked in each arm and 5 locked in each side torso.

Night Gyr Prime:

RA 1b
RT 1e
CT
H 1e
LT 1e
LA 2e

Night Gyr A:

RA 1b
RT 1m
CT
H 1e
LT 1m
LA 3e

Night Gyr B:

RA 1b
RT 1b
CT
H
LT 1b
LA 1b

Night Gyr C:

RA 2e
RT
CT
H 1e
LT 1e
LA 3b

Night Gyr D:

RA 1m
RT 1m
CT
H 1e
LT 1m
LA 1m

Nova Cat, 70 tons, 64.8 km/h (without speed tweak).
ES, 1 DHS locked inside the engine; criticals of legs, center torso and head locked by structure.

Nova Cat Prime:

RA 2e
RT
CT
H
LT
LA 3e

Nova Cat A:

RA 2e
RT 2 jumpjets
CT
H
LT 2 jumpjets
LA 2e

Nova Cat B:

RA 3m
RT 1e
CT
H
LT 1e
LA 3m

Nova Cat C:

RA 2b
RT
CT
H
LT
LA 2e

Sorry, MW4 fans, but the Night Gyr is not only the bigger brother but the better brother.
Still, PGI might find a niche for the Nova Cat with some good energy quirks.

This is the sad truth. The only reason to choose the NC would be for tonnage.

[Strum Wealh]

Odanan, on 31 December 2015 - 07:58 PM, said:

Sorry, MW4 fans, but the Night Gyr is not only the bigger brother but the better brother.
Still, PGI might find a niche for the Nova Cat with some good energy quirks.

TheArisen, on 31 December 2015 - 08:56 PM, said:

This is the sad truth. The only reason to choose the NC would be for tonnage.

Then, the question becomes "Night Gyr vs Mad Cat"...

[TheArisen]

Strum Wealh, on 01 January 2016 - 02:20 PM, said:

Then, the question becomes "Night Gyr vs Mad Cat"...

Which is basically firepower vrs mobility.

[Odanan]

TheArisen, on 01 January 2016 - 02:44 PM, said:

Which is basically firepower vrs mobility.

And it's very appropriate, because the NGyr was clearly made to counter the TWolf.