20517 replies to this topic

[MeiSooHaityu]

A long time ago, in a closed beta far...far away...

A Centurion Zombie was a thing and actually pretty popular. The big ballistic arm was nothing but a shield. STD engine Centurions just lasted FOREVER.

This was basically exploiting a hitbox issue with the Centurion's side torso a long with the fact that before all this power creep, 2 MLasers or 2 MPLasers wasn't actually THAT weak.

Different times...different times.

[Metus regem]

MeiSooHaityu, on 06 January 2016 - 05:27 AM, said:

A long time ago, in a closed beta far...far away...

A Centurion Zombie was a thing and actually pretty popular. The big ballistic arm was nothing but a shield. STD engine Centurions just lasted FOREVER.

This was basically exploiting a hitbox issue with the Centurion's side torso a long with the fact that before all this power creep, 2 MLasers or 2 MPLasers wasn't actually THAT weak.

Different times...different times.

Not that much really... I've had my CN9-A be nothing but a red CT, red head and a red leg.... Everything else was gone....

[CDLord HHGD]

Metus regem, on 06 January 2016 - 05:32 AM, said:

Not that much really... I've had my CN9-A be nothing but a red CT, red head and a red leg.... Everything else was gone....

I think I got that one achievement in a CN9.......

[MeiSooHaityu]

Yea, it can still be done, but at one time it was really popular. Now, not so much. Besides, if it still had the hitbox bug, your CT wouldn't have been red, but maybe light orange or possibly yellow lol. There used to be matches where everyone was dead except a couple dueling Centurion sticks with 2 lasers.

[Strum Wealh]

Widowmaker1981, on 06 January 2016 - 05:15 AM, said:

Well, the arms on the Gyr are higher than i thought, but id definitely still say the NC would have higher ones - its quite a big part of its design ethos that it has no visible upper arm, which isnt the case for the Gyr. It doesnt matter than its only 1 arm on the NC with actuation, since that arm exists it would just be always used (unless PGI didnt release the C variant, but in that case the NC is nothing like as good and i wouldn't buy it).

However, both the Night Gyr and the Nova Cat do have visible upper arm structures - in the case of the Nova Cat, those are the rectangular/boxy structures between the shoulder joints (where the pauldrons are) and the weapon mounts (where the weapon mounts are at/near the bottoms of the boxy upper arm structures).
Likewise, the Night Gyr has cylindrical/rounded upper arm structures between its pauldrons & its weapon mounts.

"Having no visible upper arm" is the hallmark of designs like the Rifleman and JagerMech and Blackjack (e.g., 'Mechs where the weapon mounts are at what would be the shoulder joint), and "having no visible upper arm" not part of the design ethos of either the Nova Cat or the Night Gyr (where, in both cases, the weapon mounts are clearly located well-away-from - and, more to the point, well-below - the shoulder joints).

Widowmaker1981, on 06 January 2016 - 05:15 AM, said:

And you are wrong about the 50% (1 LAA) actuation being a 'far cry' from full actuation - it is NOT the distance the arms can move from the torso that is important for that, its the speed of tracking, which you get 100% of with only 1 LAA (50% of the distance, 100% of the speed compared to 2 LAAs) - and for clan ACs its so useful id argue its as good as high torso mounts, try the HGN-IIC-C for an example (the only mech currently in existence able to run 2 Clan UACs with lateral actuation, since there are no Omnis with 2+ B slots in one arm currently).

"Actuation" would necessarily include both range of motion AND speed of motion.

Most 'Mechs with LAAs in both arms have lateral arm movement ranges in the 20°-40° range, though a few (like the TBTs) are as low as 15° despite having both LAAs.
The VTRs (other than the 9K) have 10° lateral arm movement ranges, and the HGNs have either 10° or 20° lateral arm movement ranges. Is there a 'Mech with only one LAA with a lateral arm movement range that exceeds 20°?

So, referring to 'Mechs that both lack at least one LAA & lack the range of motion of most 'Mechs that do have both LAAs as "fully actuated" (which is distinct from being "fully articulated", which simply denotes whether the joints are present at all) is inaccurate, regardless of how quickly they might be able to track laterally within their (more-limited, versus most 'Mechs) range of lateral motion.

[ShadowbaneX]

MeiSooHaityu, on 06 January 2016 - 05:27 AM, said:

A long time ago, in a closed beta far...far away...

A Centurion Zombie was a thing and actually pretty popular. The big ballistic arm was nothing but a shield. STD engine Centurions just lasted FOREVER.

This was basically exploiting a hitbox issue with the Centurion's side torso a long with the fact that before all this power creep, 2 MLasers or 2 MPLasers wasn't actually THAT weak.

Different times...different times.

I remember putting 3 or 4 Alphas from a Highlander into a Centurion that had a red CT and the thing just stood there. I was off on ita right side. Eventually another mech came up directly in front of it and put it down.

[Widowmaker1981]

Strum Wealh, on 06 January 2016 - 10:05 AM, said:

However, both the Night Gyr and the Nova Cat do have visible upper arm structures - in the case of the Nova Cat, those are the rectangular/boxy structures between the shoulder joints (where the pauldrons are) and the weapon mounts (where the weapon mounts are at/near the bottoms of the boxy upper arm structures).
Likewise, the Night Gyr has cylindrical/rounded upper arm structures between its pauldrons & its weapon mounts.

"Having no visible upper arm" is the hallmark of designs like the Rifleman and JagerMech and Blackjack (e.g., 'Mechs where the weapon mounts are at what would be the shoulder joint), and "having no visible upper arm" not part of the design ethos of either the Nova Cat or the Night Gyr (where, in both cases, the weapon mounts are clearly located well-away-from - and, more to the point, well-below - the shoulder joints).


"Actuation" would necessarily include both range of motion AND speed of motion.

Most 'Mechs with LAAs in both arms have lateral arm movement ranges in the 20°-40° range, though a few (like the TBTs) are as low as 15° despite having both LAAs.
The VTRs (other than the 9K) have 10° lateral arm movement ranges, and the HGNs have either 10° or 20° lateral arm movement ranges. Is there a 'Mech with only one LAA with a lateral arm movement range that exceeds 20°?

So, referring to 'Mechs that both lack at least one LAA & lack the range of motion of most 'Mechs that do have both LAAs as "fully actuated" (which is distinct from being "fully articulated", which simply denotes whether the joints are present at all) is inaccurate, regardless of how quickly they might be able to track laterally within their (more-limited, versus most 'Mechs) range of lateral motion.

The nits, you are picking them. Okay, fully articulated then - my meaning is that in game the important thing about arm actuation is the speed of fine tracking - it helps enormously with keeping lasers and clan ACs on target for full duration. Since the torso auto follows the arms anyway, the range is quite unimportant - if you pay attention to your reticule in mechs with all arm weapons, particularly larger ones that are less prone to be doing fast strafing runs, you will see that while shooting the enemy it is very rarely fully extended from the torso one.

And i stand by saying the weapons on the cat are higher mounted, imo they just obviously are when you look at multiple images of both mechs.

It also doesnt matter at all, we will very definitely get the Gyr first, for timeline reasons.

Edited by Widowmaker1981, 06 January 2016 - 11:26 AM.

[Bishop Steiner]

mmmmmmmmmm Nova Cat. The only clan heavy to rival my affection for the Summoner.

[Strum Wealh]

Bishop Steiner, on 06 January 2016 - 12:26 PM, said:

mmmmmmmmmm Nova Cat. The only clan heavy to rival my affection for the Summoner.

It does have some rather nice legs - more 'Mechs could use digitigrade legs like those of the Nova Cat and the Thanatos (and the Diablo-class HERCs from EarthSeige).

[TheArisen]

Widowmaker1981, on 06 January 2016 - 05:15 AM, said:

Its not exactly wise to use arms that contain 90% of your firepower as shields...

I mentioned spreading DMG. The point is the arms would help spread DMG. Most players go for legs or torsos unless its a specific mech like the DRG, etc.

[Bishop Steiner]

Strum Wealh, on 06 January 2016 - 12:46 PM, said:

It does have some rather nice legs - more 'Mechs could use digitigrade legs like those of the Nova Cat and the Thanatos (and the Diablo-class HERCs from EarthSeige).

Yeah... I used that leg style for a mech called the Destrier, an update of the Victor designed specifically for the Eridani Light Horse during the Second Star League. That style of leg absorbs impact much better, making it ideal for jumpers.


Unfortunately my old concept art for it are on my old harddrive, so I guess I should probably work on redesigning it. Thought it would make an ideal Assault unit for the ELH's mobile style, though.
2nd Generation (ELH-2D) Is an Omni version. (12 fixed DHS, 36.5 tons pod space)

Widowmaker1981, on 06 January 2016 - 05:15 AM, said:

Well, the arms on the Gyr are higher than i thought, but id definitely still say the NC would have higher ones - its quite a big part of its design ethos that it has no visible upper arm, which isnt the case for the Gyr. It doesnt matter than its only 1 arm on the NC with actuation, since that arm exists it would just be always used (unless PGI didnt release the C variant, but in that case the NC is nothing like as good and i wouldn't buy it)

And you are wrong about the 50% (1 LAA) actuation being a 'far cry' from full actuation - it is NOT the distance the arms can move from the torso that is important for that, its the speed of tracking, which you get 100% of with only 1 LAA (50% of the distance, 100% of the speed compared to 2 LAAs) - and for clan ACs its so useful id argue its as good as high torso mounts, try the HGN-IIC-C for an example (the only mech currently in existence able to run 2 Clan UACs with lateral actuation, since there are no Omnis with 2+ B slots in one arm currently)



Its not exactly wise to use arms that contain 90% of your firepower as shields...

better to lose an arm and half your firepower than your ST and all of it. Mind you being a clanner it's less an issue, but still and all, people used to say that about the VTR, and back in the day, they were one of the best damage spreaders in the game.

Edited by Bishop Steiner, 06 January 2016 - 03:54 PM.

[Odanan]

He is coming!
https://www.instagra.../p/BAQlY_ajPvH/

[CycKath]

Odanan, on 07 January 2016 - 05:38 PM, said:

He is coming!
https://www.instagra.../p/BAQlY_ajPvH/

ARMS!

[Odanan]

Vote the one Clan mech you want in the game right now!


Strong contenders:

- Kodiak!: 82+ votes
- Viper/Dragonfly: 20+ votes
- Mad Cat MK II: 19+ votes (way out of the timeline)
- Nova Cat: 15+ votes (out of the timeline)
- Blood Asp: 14+ (out of the timeline)
- Fire Moth/Dasher: 13+ votes
- Grizzly: 10+ votes
- Black Lanner: 7+ votes
- Turkina: 5+ votes
- Night Gyr: 3+ votes
- Conjurer/Hellhound: 3+ votes
- Bane/Kraken: 3+ votes
- Piranha: 2+ votes
- Linebacker: 2+ votes
(and many others, some out of the timeline or not Clan at all)

Edited by Odanan, 08 January 2016 - 08:55 AM.
updated, but not entirely accurate

[Odanan]

What, no comment? Russ is clearly deciding if the next Clan pack will be:

1- Invasion leftovers: Fire Moth, Viper, Linebacker or Night Gyr, Kingfisher;
2- New generation omnimechs: Fire Falcon, Black Lanner or Huntsman, Night Gyr or Linebacker, Turkina;
3- Second line battlemechs: Piranha or Incubus, Hellhound, Grizzly or Black Python, KODIAK.

We are seeing history in the making, guys.

[Metus regem]

Odanan, on 08 January 2016 - 10:37 AM, said:

What, no comment? Russ is clearly deciding if the next Clan pack will be:

1- Invasion leftovers: Fire Moth, Viper, Linebacker or Night Gyr, Kingfisher;
2- New generation omnimechs: Fire Falcon, Black Lanner or Huntsman, Night Gyr or Linebacker, Turkina;
3- Second line battlemechs: Piranha or Incubus, Hellhound, Grizzly or Black Python, KODIAK.

We are seeing history in the making, guys.

I'd like to see something more along the lines of these:

http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Coyotl
http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Lupus

Call it "The first ones" or something along those lines...

I mean how can you say no this this...



Look at those high mounts!

make a third version that has a UAC 5 in the RT like the Marauder with LRM 10 in the left, like the picture, and an ERML in each arm... she'd be perfect.... And at 40T she fills a weight gap, and being a 7/11 is respectable too.

[Bishop Steiner]

Metus regem, on 08 January 2016 - 10:53 AM, said:

I'd like to see something more along the lines of these:

http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Coyotl
http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Lupus

Call it "The first ones" or something along those lines...

I mean how can you say no this this...



Look at those high mounts!

make a third version that has a UAC 5 in the RT like the Marauder with LRM 10 in the left, like the picture, and an ERML in each arm... she'd be perfect.... And at 40T she fills a weight gap, and being a 7/11 is respectable too.

everyone will cry because "not chickenwalker!!!".

[Metus regem]

Bishop Steiner, on 08 January 2016 - 10:55 AM, said:

everyone will cry because "not chickenwalker!!!".

Chicken walkers are overrated.

[Odanan]

Metus regem, on 08 January 2016 - 10:57 AM, said:

Chicken walkers are overrated.

The Coyotl isn't an humanoid, so that counts for something.

[Felicitatem Parco]

Metus regem, on 08 January 2016 - 10:57 AM, said:

Chicken walkers are overrated.

Yeah, but if you take a chickenwalker to forest colony, then there's a good chance you'll get your head smashed-in by a couple suspended logs or get ripped out of your cockpit by a wookie.