20517 replies to this topic

[Juodas Varnas]

Odanan, on 11 March 2016 - 03:47 AM, said:

This is very good!

One question though: would it stand in 3 legs?

Well, seeing how Mechs don't lose the legs completely in MW:O, just have them disabled, i could imagine it dragging the dead leg (at least for that 1 second of decreased time, until it resumes normal animation, because PGI)

[Odanan]

I'm not even sure if I like this more than you version, CK16, but where you go:

Reworked "hunch". (edited mech above)

Edited by Odanan, 11 March 2016 - 04:19 AM.

[Odanan]

Anyway, I think your MKII is a true master piece. Alex can't do better.

[Metus regem]

Odanan, on 11 March 2016 - 04:22 AM, said:

Anyway, I think your MKII is a true master piece. Alex can't do better.

To ecco this, I think when she does up, she will look a great deal like your rendition CK.

[CDLord HHGD]

Juodas Varnas, on 11 March 2016 - 03:30 AM, said:

Well, on the topic of 3D models, i've made one myself too.

Few more pics in the respective thread.
http://mwomercs.com/...26#entry5071426


It was quite fun to make it. Well, until i decided (and completely failed) to rig the model (for the purposes of posing). Might be because the model was made in Sketchup and then exported to Blender for rigging (I find Sketchup so much more comfortable and intuitive to use. I just can't wrap my head around Blender's UI). However, i might be just stupid.

Since everything in MWO is modified for torso twist, what would it look like with the legs connecting to a "thorax" under the CT? Doesn't have to be as big as the main body....

[BarHaid]

cdlord, on 11 March 2016 - 07:21 AM, said:

Since everything in MWO is modified for torso twist, what would it look like with the legs connecting to a "thorax" under the CT? Doesn't have to be as big as the main body....

Hmmm.....

I like the idea of the whole torso being twisted by the legs. It would make for, interesting, walking animation when torqued to one side, however.

[Bishop Steiner]

cdlord, on 11 March 2016 - 07:21 AM, said:

Since everything in MWO is modified for torso twist, what would it look like with the legs connecting to a "thorax" under the CT? Doesn't have to be as big as the main body....

It really would unless the crotch area was crazy tall to give room for the legs to flex enough. Or it's going to have a truly terrible gait

[CDLord HHGD]

Bishop Steiner, on 11 March 2016 - 03:01 PM, said:

It really would unless the crotch area was crazy tall to give room for the legs to flex enough. Or it's going to have a truly terrible gait

Keep the "hip" joints where they are now relative to the body and use "booms" projected from the central hub underneath. Like a circle with an "X" in the middle and extending outwards from the circle. The ends of the "X" would be the "booms" that the "hip" joints would attach to.

Again, I have the artistic talent of a salted slug or I would draw this out for you. I may anyways, but it will take me a looooong time....

[Odanan]

Why do you need torso twist? Aren't quads supposed to have turrets?

[CDLord HHGD]

Odanan, on 11 March 2016 - 05:37 PM, said:

Why do you need torso twist? Aren't quads supposed to have turrets?

The Goliath does, but no art for the Scorpion have I seen a turret. Scorpion is a cool mech though.

[Bishop Steiner]

Odanan, on 11 March 2016 - 05:37 PM, said:

Why do you need torso twist? Aren't quads supposed to have turrets?

cdlord, on 13 March 2016 - 06:39 AM, said:

The Goliath does, but no art for the Scorpion have I seen a turret. Scorpion is a cool mech though.

Actually, even the Goliath doesn't though it's anime ancestor does. (And I forget if Stackpole described them as having one, or not, but by rules, they do not).

Mech turrets of any type do not exist until MW:DA.

[Anyone00]

Having a circular, vectored throttle would be interesting.

[FLG 01]

I am not really a fan of Goliath and Scorpion, although I do like a few four-legged Mechs. The Barghest is lovely. It's probably the best Katherine Davion has done for the Lyran forces.







But in 3052... too many two-legged, in-timeframe Mechs to be done first for both, Clan and IS.

[Strum Wealh]

Bishop Steiner, on 13 March 2016 - 08:33 AM, said:

Actually, even the Goliath doesn't though it's anime ancestor does. (And I forget if Stackpole described them as having one, or not, but by rules, they do not).

Mech turrets of any type do not exist until MW:DA.

The rules for turrets were introduced in Maximum Tech (the spiritual predecessor to Tactical Operations); they can be found on page 63 of Maximum Tech, Revised.

MaxTech was published in 1997, a half-decade before any of the MWDA materials had been released (the original MWDA set was released in August 2002).

Also, the Golaith is described as having a turret in the novel Warrior: Riposte.
"The massive quadruped Goliath 'Mechs looked more like conventional tanks that had sprouted a leg at each corner of their boxy chassis. Their low, flat turrets swiveled side to side as though the muzzle of their PPCs spied out targets before blasting them into oblivion. Nearly twelve meters high, the 'Mechs stood a third again as tall as any of the light 'Mechs opposing them. Like a solid line of mechanized war elephants, the Goliaths drove their fleeing enemies before them."
"Andrew watched as the miniature sun of the Goliath's fusion engine sent superheated plasma tendrils throughout the 'Mech's body. Looking like a DropShip blasting for the stars, the Goliath's turret shot into the air on an argent jet, then exploded into a million smoking scraps."

The same novel (Warrior: Riposte) also describes the torso-mounted lasers of the Archer as being housed in a turret.
"The forearms mounted the Archer's two forward-firing medium lasers, while the two lasers protecting the Archer's rear arc stabbed backward from a ball turret riding where the Mech's head should have been."

Additionally, the novel The Price of Glory describes the torso-mounted laser of the Locust as being mounted in a turret.
"The controls were identical to those in Lori's old, Sigurdian Locust. He touched a control and felt the vibration as the chin turret directly under the cockpit swung 90 degrees, sharply to the right. A screen on the instrument console showed him the target feed from the Locust's medium laser. He could see the troops cautiously moving forward again. Beyond them, brightly lit in the clearing at the bottom of the slope, he could see the two Packrat ECM vehicles, with soldiers swarming around them."

Edited by Strum Wealh, 13 March 2016 - 06:08 PM.

[Bishop Steiner]

Strum Wealh, on 13 March 2016 - 06:08 PM, said:

The rules for turrets were introduced in Maximum Tech (the spiritual predecessor to Tactical Operations); they can be found on page 63 of Maximum Tech, Revised.

MaxTech was published in 1997, a half-decade before any of the MWDA materials had been released (the original MWDA set was released in August 2002).

Also, the Golaith is described as having a turret in the novel Warrior: Riposte.
"The massive quadruped Goliath 'Mechs looked more like conventional tanks that had sprouted a leg at each corner of their boxy chassis. Their low, flat turrets swiveled side to side as though the muzzle of their PPCs spied out targets before blasting them into oblivion. Nearly twelve meters high, the 'Mechs stood a third again as tall as any of the light 'Mechs opposing them. Like a solid line of mechanized war elephants, the Goliaths drove their fleeing enemies before them."
"Andrew watched as the miniature sun of the Goliath's fusion engine sent superheated plasma tendrils throughout the 'Mech's body. Looking like a DropShip blasting for the stars, the Goliath's turret shot into the air on an argent jet, then exploded into a million smoking scraps."

The same novel (Warrior: Riposte) also describes the torso-mounted lasers of the Archer as being housed in a turret.
"The forearms mounted the Archer's two forward-firing medium lasers, while the two lasers protecting the Archer's rear arc stabbed backward from a ball turret riding where the Mech's head should have been."

Additionally, the novel The Price of Glory describes the torso-mounted laser of the Locust as being mounted in a turret.
"The controls were identical to those in Lori's old, Sigurdian Locust. He touched a control and felt the vibration as the chin turret directly under the cockpit swung 90 degrees, sharply to the right. A screen on the instrument console showed him the target feed from the Locust's medium laser. He could see the troops cautiously moving forward again. Beyond them, brightly lit in the clearing at the bottom of the slope, he could see the two Packrat ECM vehicles, with soldiers swarming around them."

1) I acknowledged them in they novels (or more precisely that I was not sure, but that stackpole may have)
2) unless I am forgetting those were not tourney legal rules in Maximum Tech
3) care to show me anywhere in TT where the Goliath was counted as having a turret?
4) park the damn attitude

[FalconerGray]

Are the novels that reliable in regards to their descriptions of mech loadouts, layouts, etc? Last night I read a sequence involving a duel between a Nova and a Mad Dog (Legend of the Jade Phoenix, Bloodname) that on one page states that the Mad Dog in question has two Gauss Rifles as it's only weapons (so a Mad Dog C) and then on the very next pages, describes that mech closing into range and using an Ultra Autocannon to attack the leg of the Nova...

[Bishop Steiner]

legatoblues, on 13 March 2016 - 07:35 PM, said:

Are the novels that reliable in regards to their descriptions of mech loadouts, layouts, etc? Last night I read a sequence involving a duel between a Nova and a Mad Dog (Legend of the Jade Phoenix, Bloodname) that on one page states that the Mad Dog in question has two Gauss Rifles as it's only weapons (so a Mad Dog C) and then on the very next pages, describes that mech closing into range and using an Ultra Autocannon to attack the leg of the Nova...

Want a great laugh go read the load out on Vlad's executioner during Phelan's trial of Position. Has about 48 tons worth of weapons on it....

[FalconerGray]

Bishop Steiner, on 13 March 2016 - 07:54 PM, said:

Want a great laugh go read the load out on Vlad's executioner during Phelan's trial of Position. Has about 48 tons worth of weapons on it....

I had forgotten about that one! Classic stuff

I also enjoy that the 'mech info in the back of each of the Jade Phoenix Trilogy books I've got have the profile of the Ice Ferret and Mist Lynx mixed up and depict the Timber Wolf as having no arms whatsoever

[Strum Wealh]

Bishop Steiner, on 13 March 2016 - 06:52 PM, said:

1) I acknowledged them in they novels (or more precisely that I was not sure, but that stackpole may have)
2) unless I am forgetting those were not tourney legal rules in Maximum Tech
3) care to show me anywhere in TT where the Goliath was counted as having a turret?
4) park the damn attitude

4.) No attitude, merely statements of fact.

3.) The firing arc rules indicate that every torso mounted weapon can cover a ~180° arc in front of the 'Mech, without a torso-twist.
"Weapons mounted in the three forward torso locations, the legs or the head of a ’Mech may fire only at targets in the forward arc. Arm-mounted weapons may fire into the forward arc plus the appropriate side arc." - Total Warfare, pg. 105
"That functionality falls within the existing rules with regards to firing arcs. All weapons are capable of some articulation beyond that provided by a Torso Twist, the examples... are just fluff explanations of that existing mechanism." - from here



The GOL-1H carries its PPC in the right-torso, and the weapon is still able to be used against targets in the forward-left hexes without turning the whole 'Mech, which necessarily implies that the weapon must be mounted on some form of gimbal/pintle/turret, yes?
And the same would be true for every torso-mounted weapon on every 'Mech, yes?

(And, even with all that, I am of the opinion that a system involving fixed gun mounts & gun harmonization - much like what was seen in WWII combat aircraft, and what is implemented in games like War Thunder - would solve some of the gameplay issues of MWO. )

2.) Indeed, you are correct - Level 3 (or whatever the preferred equivalent terminology is) rules are indeed not "tournament legal", but they are still official - albeit optional - gameplay rules published in official rulebooks.

1.) However, the original appearance of the turret-specific rules in MaxTech still predates the existence of MWDA by a significant amount of time (~5 years). And turret-mounted weapons were mentioned in the novels (including those taking place in the pre-Clan era) many years before that (ostensibly, as a means of tying-in & explaining the firing arc rules from TT), a point we both acknowledge.
As such, the statement that "Mech turrets of any type do not exist until MW:DA" is demonstrably incorrect, yes?

Edited by Strum Wealh, 14 March 2016 - 06:05 AM.

[Ovion]

FLG 01, on 13 March 2016 - 05:10 PM, said:

I am not really a fan of Goliath and Scorpion, although I do like a few four-legged Mechs. The Barghest is lovely. It's probably the best Katherine Davion has done for the Lyran forces.







But in 3052... too many two-legged, in-timeframe Mechs to be done first for both, Clan and IS.

And not enough quads to bother.
Even at 3060, we'll only get 1-3 packs worth (12 total spread between IS and Clan), and those would need future variants, and quite a few PGI specials.

Maybe one day, we'll get them, but I'd bet it's an incredibly low priority for PGI, especially with the 3-4 they could implement now vs the amount of work it'd take.