20517 replies to this topic

[Metus regem]

CK16, on 06 November 2016 - 01:25 PM, said:

Clans deserve new toys as well now....I heavy lasers I feel would be pretty easy to balance, high damage but short range and very high heat. They might be nasty sure but they are not flawless and ER's would not be put classed by them. Give them long CD as well so they don't infringe on pulse as well. ATM's though...well they can not even get LBX ammo swap working so what would they do? Give us ATM's but with a mid distance ranged LRM?

I am for the IS though getting some clan knock offs though since they could balance easier.

The problem with ATM's is their mid to short range damage missile is 3/missile, with a 2/missile LRM range and an Extended LRM for 1/missile. So the question becomes, do they take the mid to short range unit, that out classes SRM's and LRM's? Or do they go with the one that completely invalidate LRM's in either damage or range? Or do they make a missile that has a damage fall off over a very long range, that includes all other Clan launchers short of streaks?

As for Heavy Lasers, don't forget that the standard heavy lasers also explode when taking a crit like a Gauss Rifle....

[Pariah Devalis]

Metus regem, on 06 November 2016 - 02:35 PM, said:

The problem with ATM's is their mid to short range damage missile is 3/missile, with a 2/missile LRM range and an Extended LRM for 1/missile. So the question becomes, do they take the mid to short range unit, that out classes SRM's and LRM's? Or do they go with the one that completely invalidate LRM's in either damage or range? Or do they make a missile that has a damage fall off over a very long range, that includes all other Clan launchers short of streaks?

As for Heavy Lasers, don't forget that the standard heavy lasers also explode when taking a crit like a Gauss Rifle....

Meh. ATMs are relatively easy to code. I mean, the code already exists. Just make it deal reduced damage the further away the target is, down to a minimum at maximum range and up to a maximum at 1/3 optimal range. No need to deal with ammo swapping for the various ranges. Just have the damage scale. Flat, fast missile trajectory, and bam.

Edited by Pariah Devalis, 06 November 2016 - 02:45 PM.

[CK16]

But then that might obsolete SRM's unless ATM's have long reloads and high heat for their size?

[Odanan]

CK16, on 06 November 2016 - 02:46 PM, said:

But then that might obsolete SRM's unless ATM's have long reloads and high heat for their size?

That would still make alpha builds very powerful... yes, balancing those broken level 3 tech weapons is a nightmare (and I'm not even talking about the rotary cannons...)

[Metus regem]

Odanan, on 06 November 2016 - 02:51 PM, said:

That would still make alpha builds very powerful... yes, balancing those broken level 3 tech weapons is a nightmare (and I'm not even talking about the rotary cannons...)

RAC's are very strong, 5dmg/shot 6 round burst.... But I'm more worried about the iHGR, that thing invalidates the AC/20 and the normal GR for the most part... 22dmg, 2 heat, 570m optimal range, 4shots/ton for 20t and 11 crits....

[TheArisen]

I used to want the Kraken/Bane but it'd utterly destroy balance. 14 high mounted ballistics? 8 missile hps on a 100t mech? I could see there being a Splaken, ×8 SRM6 fired 4 each or chain fired... The Kodiak is enough, let's not mess up balance any more.

[Fyrwulf]

iHGR isn't TRO: 3067, though, so that's not really a worry of mine. Since we're discussing new mechs, I'm going to go through and list every mech by TRO: 3058 (the last TRO that mech has been taken from) that we don't yet have. Of note is that a great many mechs from TRO: 3058, starting with the Cauldron Born/Ebon Jaguar, have been put into the game. And yet we don't have a huge number of mechs, including some Unseen/Reseen.



TRO: 3025

• Light 'Mechs
  
  • Mercury
    
  • Thorn
    
  • Mongoose
    
  • Hermes
    
  • Hussar
    
  • Javelin

• Medium 'Mechs
  
  • Clint
    
  • Hermes II
    
  • Sentinel
    
  • Vulcan
    
  • Whitworth
    
  • Hatchetman
    
  • Wyvern
    
  • Dervish

• 
  Heavy 'Mechs
  
  • Champion
    
  • Lancelot
    
  • Quickdraw
    
  • Bombardier
    
  • Exterminator
    
  • Guillotine
    
  • Flashman

• Assault 'Mechs
  
  • Charger
    
  • Thug
    
  • Crockett

TRO: 3050

Clan OmniMechs

• Light 'Mechs
  
  • Fire Moth (Dasher)

Inner Sphere BattleMechs

• Light 'Mechs
  • Flea
    
  • Hornet
    
  • Mongoose
    
  • Falcon
    
  • Firefly
    
  • Wolfhound
• Medium 'Mechs
  
  • Wolf Trap
    
  • Hoplite
• Heavy 'Mechs
  
  • Grand Dragon
    
  • Axman
    
  • Caesar
• Assault 'Mechs
  
  • Hatamoto-Chi
    
  • Katana
    
  • Shogun
    
  • Annihilator
    
  • Imp

TRO: 3055

Inner Sphere Battlemechs

• Light 'Mechs
  
  Fireball
  
  • Dart
    
  • Tarantula
    
  • Battle Hawk
    
  • Hammer
    
  • Hitman
    
  • Jackal
    
  • Scarabus
    
  • Hollander
    
  • Venom
• Medium 'Mechs
  
  • Daimyo
    
  • Watchman
    
  • Komodo
    
  • Snake
    
  • Stealth
    
  • Huron Warrior
    
  • Nightsky
    
  • Apollo
    
  • Grim Reaper
    
  • Wraith
• Heavy 'Mechs
  
  • Anvil
    
  • Tempest
    
  • Daikyu
    
  • Gallowglas
    
  • Hercules
    
  • Thunder
    
  • Bandersnatch
    
  • Falconer
    
  • Penetrator
    
  • Rakshasa
    
  • War Dog
• Assault 'Mechs
  
  • Salamander
    
  • Gunslinger
    
  • Albatross
    
  • Cerberus
    
  • Naginata
    
  • Berserker
    
  • Grand Titan

Clan 'Mechs

• Inner Sphere Refits
  
  • Locust IIC
    
  • Phoenix Hawk IIC
    
  • Griffin IIC
    
  • Shadow Hawk IIC
    
  • Rifleman IIC
    
  • Warhammer IIC
• Second-line 'Mechs
  
  • Baboon
    
  • Vixen
    
  • Peregrine
    
  • Hellhound
    
  • Goshawk
    
  • Glass Spider (Galahad)
    
  • Black Python (Viper)
    
  • Stone Rhino (Behemoth)
    
  • Kraken
• OmniMechs
  
  • Phantom
    
  • Pouncer
    
  • Naga

TRO: 3058

Inner Sphere 'Mechs

• Light 'Mechs
  
  • Raptor
    
  • Falcon Hawk
    
  • Owens
• Medium 'Mechs
  
  • Strider
    
  • Chameleon
    
  • Enfield
    
  • Lineholder
• Heavy 'Mechs
  
  • Black Hawk-KU
    
  • Merlin
    
  • Avatar
    
  • Dragon Fire
    
  • Maelstrom
• Assault 'Mechs
  
  • O-Bakemono
    
  • Longbow
    
  • Sunder
    
  • Devastator

Clan 'Mechs

• Light 'Mechs
  
  • Piranha
    
  • Fire Falcon
    
  • Hankyu
• Medium 'Mechs
  
  • Battle Cobra
    
  • Grendel
    
  • Nobori-nin
    
  • Black Lanner
• Heavy 'Mechs
  
  • Thresher
    
  • Crossbow
    
  • Grizzly
• Assault 'Mechs
  
  • Kingfisher
    
  • Turkina

Star League

• Light 'Mechs
  
  • Night Hawk
    
  • Spector
    
  • Talon
• Medium 'Mechs
  
  • Starslayer
    
  • Lynx
• Heavy 'Mechs
  
  • Cestus
    
  • Excalibur
    
  • Shootist
• Assault 'Mechs
  
  • Spartan
    
  • Striker
    
  • Emperor
    
  • Nightstar
    
  • Pillager
    
  • Thunder Hawk

Edited by Fyrwulf, 06 November 2016 - 07:29 PM.

[CK16]

I could live with not seeing alot of those ever though haha.

[TheArisen]

CK16, on 06 November 2016 - 06:40 PM, said:

I could live with not seeing alot of those ever though haha.

Seriously, So many people clamor for the Annihilator even though it'd be one of the absolute worst mechs in the game even if it'd engine cap were raised from what it normally would be. Slower and less mobile than a Dwolf with low mount wapons but a very tall profile? Just horrendous.

[Odanan]

TheArisen, on 06 November 2016 - 06:55 PM, said:

Seriously, So many people clamor for the Annihilator even though it'd be one of the absolute worst mechs in the game even if it'd engine cap were raised from what it normally would be. Slower and less mobile than a Dwolf with low mount wapons but a very tall profile? Just horrendous.

If it could reach 50 km/h, I don't think it would be bad at all - at least in a favorable position.

But I have no hurry to see another IS assault other than the Charger. Well, the Nightstar would be cool too (I love how it looks).

[Odanan]

Fyrwulf, on 06 November 2016 - 06:26 PM, said:

iHGR isn't TRO: 3067, though, so that's not really a worry of mine. Since we're discussing new mechs, I'm going to go through and list every mech by TRO: 3058 (the last TRO that mech has been taken from) that we don't yet have. Of note is that a great many mechs from TRO: 3058, starting with the Cauldron Born/Ebon Jaguar, have been put into the game. And yet we don't have a huge number of mechs, including some Unseen/Reseen.

TRO: 3025

• Light 'Mechs
  
  • Mercury
    
  • Thorn
    
  • Mongoose
    
  • Hermes
    
  • Hussar
    
  • Javelin

• Medium 'Mechs
  
  • Clint
    
  • Hermes II
    
  • Sentinel
    
  • Vulcan
    
  • Whitworth
    
  • Hatchetman
    
  • Wyvern
    
  • Dervish

• 
  Heavy 'Mechs
  
  • Champion
    
  • Lancelot
    
  • Quickdraw
    
  • Bombardier
    
  • Exterminator
    
  • Guillotine
    
  • Flashman

• Assault 'Mechs
  
  • Charger
    
  • Thug
    
  • Crockett

TRO: 3050

Clan OmniMechs

• Light 'Mechs
  
  • Fire Moth (Dasher)

Inner Sphere BattleMechs

• Light 'Mechs
  
  • Flea
    
  • Hornet
    
  • Mongoose
    
  • Falcon
    
  • Firefly
    
  • Wolfhound
• Medium 'Mechs
  
  • Wolf Trap
    
  • Hoplite
• Heavy 'Mechs
  
  • Grand Dragon
    
  • Axman
    
  • Caesar
• Assault 'Mechs
  
  • Hatamoto-Chi
    
  • Katana
    
  • Shogun
    
  • Annihilator
    
  • Imp

TRO: 3055

Inner Sphere Battlemechs

• Light 'Mechs
  
  • Fireball
    
  • Dart
    
  • Tarantula
    
  • Battle Hawk
    
  • Hammer
    
  • Hitman
    
  • Jackal
    
  • Scarabus
    
  • Hollander
    
  • Venom
• Medium 'Mechs
  
  • Daimyo
    
  • Watchman
    
  • Komodo
    
  • Snake
    
  • Stealth
    
  • Huron Warrior
    
  • Nightsky
    
  • Apollo
    
  • Grim Reaper
    
  • Wraith
• Heavy 'Mechs
  
  • Anvil
    
  • Tempest
    
  • Daikyu
    
  • Gallowglas
    
  • Hercules
    
  • Thunder
    
  • Bandersnatch
    
  • Falconer
    
  • Penetrator
    
  • Rakshasa
    
  • War Dog
• Assault 'Mechs
  
  • Salamander
    
  • Gunslinger
    
  • Albatross
    
  • Cerberus
    
  • Naginata
    
  • Berserker
    
  • Grand Titan

Clan 'Mechs

• Inner Sphere Refits
  
  • Locust IIC
    
  • Phoenix Hawk IIC
    
  • Griffin IIC
    
  • Shadow Hawk IIC
    
  • Rifleman IIC
    
  • Warhammer IIC
• Second-line 'Mechs
  
  • Baboon
    
  • Vixen
    
  • Peregrine
    
  • Hellhound
    
  • Goshawk
    
  • Glass Spider (Galahad)
    
  • Black Python (Viper)
    
  • Stone Rhino (Behemoth)
    
  • Kraken
• OmniMechs
  
  • Phantom
    
  • Pouncer
    
  • Naga

TRO: 3058

Inner Sphere 'Mechs

• Light 'Mechs
  
  • Raptor
    
  • Falcon Hawk
    
  • Owens
• Medium 'Mechs
  
  • Strider
    
  • Chameleon
    
  • Enfield
    
  • Lineholder
• Heavy 'Mechs
  
  • Black Hawk-KU
    
  • Merlin
    
  • Avatar
    
  • Dragon Fire
    
  • Maelstrom
• Assault 'Mechs
  
  • O-Bakemono
    
  • Longbow
    
  • Sunder
    
  • Devastator

Clan 'Mechs

• Light 'Mechs
  
  • Piranha
    
  • Fire Falcon
    
  • Hankyu
• Medium 'Mechs
  
  • Battle Cobra
    
  • Grendel
    
  • Nobori-nin
    
  • Black Lanner
• Heavy 'Mechs
  
  • Thresher
    
  • Crossbow
    
  • Grizzly
• Assault 'Mechs
  
  • Kingfisher
    
  • Turkina

Star League

• Light 'Mechs
  
  • Night Hawk
    
  • Spector
    
  • Talon
• Medium 'Mechs
  
  • Starslayer
    
  • Lynx
• Heavy 'Mechs
  
  • Cestus
    
  • Excalibur
    
  • Shootist
• Assault 'Mechs
  
  • Spartan
    
  • Striker
    
  • Emperor
    
  • Nightstar
    
  • Pillager
    
  • Thunder Hawk

Of your list, those are the few mechs I want in MWO:

Javelin (but would accept the Valkyrie as a replacement)
Charger
Fire Moth (Dasher)
Grand Dragon (the 1G, as a variant for the Dragon)
Falconer (love all Marauder-ish designs)
Rifleman IIC
Hellhound (specially to see how it will look)
Black Python (Viper)
Stone Rhino (Behemoth)
Bane (Kraken)
Raptor
Avatar
Longbow
Sunder
Piranha (but afraid it will be OP - or bring a huge nerf to MGs)
Fire Falcon
Black Lanner
Excalibur
Nightstar
Pillager

After those in bold I would jump right into the 3060s (MW4 mechs) and never look back.

EDIT: Sure, I would include in my "essential" list the Wasp and Crusader (with Stinger, Valkyrie and Ostroc coming after).

Edited by Odanan, 07 November 2016 - 03:28 AM.

[C E Dwyer]

Just remember that the 3025 TRO second edition was created when Harmony Gold held onto the Unseen, like they were rare diamonds.

The Wasp, Stinger, Valkyrie, Ostscout, Ostol, Ostroc, Crusader, are all missing, from the list above, and could be included.

The Scorpion, and Goliath, I have omitted, because P.G.I have said from the beginning they won't be making Quads.

With these added the list is complete, to my knowledge, as I don't own the later TRO's


Edit to include what I would spend on

Lights

Wasp/Stinger
Javelin
Valkyrie
Flea

I'd have the Ostscout in the list, but without some expanded electronic warfare options I see no point in it.

Also the Hermes would get on it, but for the raging of the community if they added both it, and the Hermes II because they are identical in looks, and I'd rather have it as the medium.

Mediums

Vulcan
Clint
Dervish

Whitworth
Because I'm an ex toolmaker, and its a thread type, and it has a great name, and it's not a fashionable mech.

Hermes II
For completeness sake, and I like the idea of ankle wings I can't see, outside the mech bay unless others also buy it

I'd love to have the Hatchetman, but it's Neutered without Melee, The Sentinel, with some minor alterations would also get my interest,

Heavies

BlackHawk KU
Ostol
Ostroc

Crusader
If it's modelled on the early art. A definite yes becomes an almost certain no if it gets all the arm hard points in wrist drums, like the late art.

Axeman possible but see Hatchetman for reasons

There are no other heavies I would even consider, unless Alex and the modelling team knocked it out the park

Charger

if it's not turned into a Charger, Hatamoto hybrid, in which case it would be a firm no

Much like the heavies, unless a mech makes me go oh wow I must have that, I can't see me even buying mech bays for c-bill sales, without some serious redesigning by Alex and the team.


Clan Mechs

Black Lanner
Piranha

Edited by Cathy, 07 November 2016 - 03:31 AM.

[Juodas Varnas]

Cathy, on 07 November 2016 - 02:16 AM, said:

The Scorpion, and Goliath, I have omitted, because P.G.I have said from the beginning they won't be making Quads.

Well, they've also said from the beginning that we'll never have 3rd person view.
Never say never!

[Zergling]

Should probably remove the mechs with melee weapons too, as it is unlikely they will ever be added. The Hatchetman, Axman, Nightsky, Berzerker and Scarabus.

The Naga and O-Bakemono revolve around the Arrow IV artillery system, so they are unlikely to be added either.

[SlightlyMobileTurret]

TheArisen, on 06 November 2016 - 06:12 PM, said:

I used to want the Kraken/Bane but it'd utterly destroy balance. 14 high mounted ballistics? 8 missile hps on a 100t mech? I could see there being a Splaken, ×8 SRM6 fired 4 each or chain fired... The Kodiak is enough, let's not mess up balance any more.

I'll tell you why it won't be as bad a problem as you think.

The Cyclops already exists, and it can mount 7xSRM6+A and a SRM4+A, very devastating, but that firepower is absolutely needed for an assault mech.

Guess what else mech can put out that much alpha strike with the cooling? A 4SRM6+A 5/6 SPL TBR. No really.

Dakka wise, the Kraken will not offer anything extraordinary. 5UAC5 or 6UAC5? Dire can do it. Less gun with far better mounts? Kodiak.

UAC2s are not efficient at all, 3UAC5 2UAC10 Dire will crap all over a Kraken, unless you went with a really, really small engine and mounted some mix of UAC5/UAC10 and UAC2s to get over the ghost heat.

Plus, dakka Kraken with Endo (and not so big engine) will probably just be able to mount 8 UAC2 or so with enough ammo and heatsinks. Remember that the stock comes with as much podspace as the Dire, and mounts 10UAC2 with just 4 tons of ammunition and just 10 DHS. Class 2 Autocannons are VERY hot.
You'd need 20 heatsinks before you start to get close to the sustained DPS of the other Clan 100 tonners with 8 UAC2.

Edited by Keshav Murali, 07 November 2016 - 04:06 AM.

[Juodas Varnas]

Keshav Murali, on 07 November 2016 - 04:04 AM, said:

The Cyclops already exists, and it can mount 7xSRM6+A and a SRM4+A, very devastating, but that firepower is absolutely needed for an assault mech.

Well, yeah, but it doesn't have a Clan XL engine to boot.
And the Kraken would probably have 9 missile hardpoints (it has 8xLRM15s and one one-shot SRM-4, which is a really stupid thing to have, but in MWO would probably be turned into a normal SRM-4, so 9 hardpoints, or even more if PGI for some reason decides its a good idea for more hardpoint inflation,ahahaha)

Edited by Juodas Varnas, 07 November 2016 - 04:28 AM.

[TAKTCOM]

Metus regem, on 06 November 2016 - 02:35 PM, said:

As for Heavy Lasers, don't forget that the standard heavy lasers also explode when taking a crit like a Gauss Rifle....

Neg. Improved Heavy Lasers explode if destroyed.

Metus regem, on 06 November 2016 - 03:08 PM, said:

But I'm more worried about the iHGR, that thing invalidates the AC/20 and the normal GR for the most part... 22dmg, 2 heat, 570m optimal range, 4shots/ton for 20t and 11 crits....

Improved Heavy Gauss Rifle It weighs as light mech.

[Zergling]

Regular Heavy Lasers have a +1 to hit penalty in TT, which would probably be represented in MWO by a longer beam duration than any other laser.

They would be slightly damage/heat efficient than Clan ER Lasers, in addition to substantially more damage/weight efficient, but same range as regular Inner Sphere lasers.

Edited by Zergling, 07 November 2016 - 09:35 AM.

[Metus regem]

TAKTCOM, on 07 November 2016 - 06:24 AM, said:

Neg. Improved Heavy Lasers explode if destroyed.
Improved Heavy Gauss Rifle It weighs as light mech.

My mistake on the heavy Lasers then.

Your right on the weight of the iHGR, but why take an AC/20 on an Atlas, when you could take an iHGR and deal more damage out to nearly Gauss Rifle range?

[CK16]

Metus regem, on 07 November 2016 - 10:49 AM, said:

My mistake on the heavy Lasers then.

Your right on the weight of the iHGR, but why take an AC/20 on an Atlas, when you could take an iHGR and deal more damage out to nearly Gauss Rifle range?

Crap ammo per ton? Do they explode on crit? Very long reload? They could balance it out I am sure.