20517 replies to this topic

[Adridos]

Arnold The Governator, on 15 February 2018 - 11:47 AM, said:

Since this topic has got me thinking, I wonder if the original Warhammer IIC (aka Japanese Warhammer) was not supposed to have an SRM-6 rack (or missile hard points) in the top right part of the mech to begin with?

There's nothing like an SRM6 in Macross. They shoot missiles and that's the end of it until they start equipping dimension eaters. You can look at non-internal shot of the Warhammer and see the sides have retained being flaps and everything (there's a clear hinge at the top).

They're missile ports, but without any internal representation provided.

[Metus regem]

Adridos, on 15 February 2018 - 12:46 PM, said:

There's nothing like an SRM6 in Macross. They shoot missiles and that's the end of it until they start equipping dimension eaters. You can look at non-internal shot of the Warhammer and see the sides have retained being flaps and everything (there's a clear hinge at the top).

They're missile ports, but without any internal representation provided.

Always loved the ST's on the Tomahawk that pop open to show a porcupine of death....

[Bishop Steiner]

Arnold The Governator, on 15 February 2018 - 11:30 AM, said:

I mean hell, if they are truly meant to be missile hard points from the original concept art then I am all for it. Might as well make the prime even more OP when everyone calls it a cheese mech. Let the tears flow I say.


Bishop is right. There are so many inconsistencies with what we got canon wise vs what the original MW1 Japanese port made for the mech, to the point where I do not think there is a conclusive answer to be had here. Whoever imported the mech artwork over to North America may not have realized what I've been calling "support pylons" and what you have been calling "missile bays" to actually be canon and what not. All that I do know is that the Prime does not have any canon missile hard points, and none of the stock models had them up until the introduction of the RFL-IIC 4.

The similar protrusions on the Macross Unseen Rifleman were ammo mags in the original Macross versions. Figured it was a hold over from that, as some models are AC based, where those could be covers for the magazines, but on the prime, might be heatsink towers. *shrugs* Not saying that is what they definitively are, but to me it's a logical take.

[Odanan]

I will need to do a ton of home work with my son so I'll only be able to play in a few hours. Anyone can say me how's the Black Lanner doing?

[Odanan]

Tested the Black Lanner - it's a bad brawler (fragile!) but a decent skirmisher.

[Bishop Steiner]

need moar 20 tonners

[TheArisen]

Bishop Steiner, on 21 February 2018 - 04:11 PM, said:

need moar 20 tonners

I have a feeling that until the HG junk is done those are off the table.

[Valdarion Silarius]

TheArisen, on 21 February 2018 - 04:36 PM, said:

I have a feeling that until the HG junk is done those are off the table.

There's still a slight chance that PGI will continue to release reseens. The reason for that being is that there is more money to be made with the nostalgia with some viable chases still out there. Not entirely sure how PGI will redesign the remaining left to avoid legal ammo for HG, while still somehow making them look good.

[Brain Cancer]

Arnold The Governator, on 21 February 2018 - 04:51 PM, said:

There's still a slight chance that PGI will continue to release reseens. The reason for that being is that there is more money to be made with the nostalgia with some viable chases still out there. Not entirely sure how PGI will redesign the remaining left to avoid legal ammo for HG, while still somehow making them look good.

If they lose the lawsuit, it'll be a moot point. HG will attempt to suck PGI dry with damages and MWO will likely fold. This is a kill or be killed situation for the game.

[The Lighthouse]

Time is nigh for Hollander.

[Odanan]

Brain Cancer, on 21 February 2018 - 05:39 PM, said:

If they lose the lawsuit, it'll be a moot point. HG will attempt to suck PGI dry with damages and MWO will likely fold. This is a kill or be killed situation for the game.

So... there is no reason to DO NOT release more Un(re)seens now. Just 3 more mechs (Wasp, Crusader and Longbow) won't make any difference.

And I'm not counting the IICs (Rifleman, Warhammer), because Alex Iglesias can do them quite different from the Macross originals.

[Brain Cancer]

Odanan, on 21 February 2018 - 06:08 PM, said:

So... there is no reason to DO NOT release more Un(re)seens now. Just 3 more mechs (Wasp, Crusader and Longbow) won't make any difference.

Actually, there is. The more (potential) violations, the larger the damage claim would be. Plus, it'd show a pattern of attempting to profit from a criminal act while the getting was still technically good, which the court would consider in making awards.

Not that I think HG has a leg to stand on, but that's the truth if they won.

[Bishop Steiner]

Arnold The Governator, on 21 February 2018 - 04:51 PM, said:

There's still a slight chance that PGI will continue to release reseens. The reason for that being is that there is more money to be made with the nostalgia with some viable chases still out there. Not entirely sure how PGI will redesign the remaining left to avoid legal ammo for HG, while still somehow making them look good.

there is one reason they won't and I don't think HG has a thing to do with it, TBH.

MW5 is set in 3015 era. Releasing any more 3025 era mechs before MW5 launches just removes sizzle from that game. Now IIC Unseens? Different story.

[Valdarion Silarius]

Brain Cancer, on 21 February 2018 - 06:11 PM, said:

Actually, there is. The more (potential) violations, the larger the damage claim would be. Plus, it'd show a pattern of attempting to profit from a criminal act while the getting was still technically good, which the court would consider in making awards.

Not that I think HG has a leg to stand on, but that's the truth if they won.

I would imagine if they were designed differently from the originals, that it would be better in PGI's stance to further prove that HG is indeed wasting everyone's time in the court room. I mean, look at the comparisons that they tried to do with HBS and the Macross robots back in the documents. They don't look ANYTHING like the robots that they tried to compare.

I think Russ even said himself back during a town hall that the reseens that we have now in game "were carefully crafted with the help of a legal team." Even though I am not a lawyer and don't study law of course yadda yadda etc.

I'd wish Microsoft would step in and help out PGI here, because by not doing so this constant harassment from HG is just going to persist to whoever wants to buy the Mechwarrior license next in line. It's really foolish for them not to get involved considering what is at stake here.

[Valdarion Silarius]

Bishop Steiner, on 21 February 2018 - 06:26 PM, said:

there is one reason they won't and I don't think HG has a thing to do with it, TBH.

MW5 is set in 3015 era. Releasing any more 3025 era mechs before MW5 launches just removes sizzle from that game. Now IIC Unseens? Different story.

Do you think that HG has any say on mechs like the unseen Stone Rhino and the Rifleman IIC? Honestly I think it's a mixed bag in the case for the unseens, because I think there are some unseen mechs that do bear resemblance to the Macross designs, while others might be safe under the radar if they were redesigned correctly. If PGI's lawyers play it smart and prove to the judge that those original designs were made by VMI specifically for Battletech, there might be a possible chance that it may be safe to release them into MW:O if they were remade properly.

[Brain Cancer]

Arnold The Governator, on 21 February 2018 - 06:27 PM, said:

I would imagine if they were designed differently from the originals, that it would be better in PGI's stance to further prove that HG is indeed wasting everyone's time in the court room. I mean, look at the comparisons that they tried to do with HBS and the Macross robots back in the documents. They don't look ANYTHING like the robots that they tried to compare.

I think Russ even said himself back during a town hall that the reseens that we have now in game "were carefully crafted with the help of a legal team." Even though I am not a lawyer and don't study law of course yadda yadda etc.

At that point, it really doesn't matter. A win would take some kind of legal jujitsu that would pretty much wipe anything even remotely resembling the Battletech models that were once Unseen-but-we-changed-them, considering how much HG is stretching things as it is.

Quote

I'd wish Microsoft would step in and help out PGI here, because by not doing so this constant harassment from HG is just going to persist to whoever wants to buy the Mechwarrior license next in line. It's really foolish for them not to get involved considering what is at stake here.

Microsoft doesn't want anything to do with this kind of mess. They already have their money, and if PGI crashes and burns, well they can go ahead and get even more licensing the remains to someone else who doesn't even come close to the Unseen models. After all, they've been quite good about not putting anything HG could bite on themselves, but if they get into this lawsuit, collateral damage will ensue on a loss.

And if HG loses (which they very much should), they reap all the benefits at no cost to themselves whatsoever. A win for self-interest and a hands-off approach.

[Odanan]

Brain Cancer, on 21 February 2018 - 06:11 PM, said:

Actually, there is. The more (potential) violations, the larger the damage claim would be. Plus, it'd show a pattern of attempting to profit from a criminal act while the getting was still technically good, which the court would consider in making awards.

Not that I think HG has a leg to stand on, but that's the truth if they won.

OK, that's a valid point.

[Bishop Steiner]

Arnold The Governator, on 21 February 2018 - 06:37 PM, said:

Do you think that HG has any say on mechs like the unseen Stone Rhino and the Rifleman IIC? Honestly I think it's a mixed bag in the case for the unseens, because I think there are some unseen mechs that do bear resemblance to the Macross designs, while others might be safe under the radar if they were redesigned correctly. If PGI's lawyers play it smart and prove to the judge that those original designs were made by VMI specifically for Battletech, there might be a possible chance that it may be safe to release them into MW:O if they were remade properly.

They have about as much case as they do with claiming the Atlas was stolen from them. Which means little to none. The only reason those became Unseen is that the art was still outsourced and in typical FASA overreaction to HG, they went full turtle in case ANYONE else ever decided to come after them.

That has little to know bearing on the actual HG unseen, or even other mechs like theVulcan, Dervish, etc.. which are almost certainly not going to be released until MW5 because frankly it would be stupid from a marketing standpoint, to do so.

The RFL-IIC etc, are tangentially related to the Macross, and as such might be held off until after just to be safe, but others liek any of the Dougram or Crusher Joe based IIC? Zero reason, legally to hold off. Whether they feel they are the most marketable, IDK.

[Odanan]

Bishop Steiner, on 21 February 2018 - 06:59 PM, said:

The RFL-IIC etc, are tangentially related to the Macross, and as such might be held off until after just to be safe, but others liek any of the Dougram or Crusher Joe based IIC? Zero reason, legally to hold off. Whether they feel they are the most marketable, IDK.

But the IICs the Clans need the most are exactly the ones related to Macross (Rifleman IIC and Phoenix Hawk IIC)...

[Bishop Steiner]

Odanan, on 22 February 2018 - 02:08 AM, said:

But the IICs the Clans need the most are exactly the ones related to Macross (Rifleman IIC and Phoenix Hawk IIC)...

*shrugs*

I just provide the facts and observations. Were it up to me I would have driven a stake through the shriveled lump HG calls a heart decades ago and chucked the head into the sea. And done the fans of both IPs a great service in the process.