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Ultimate Mech Discussion Thread

BattleMech Balance

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#19521 Sereglach

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Posted 24 July 2018 - 10:18 PM

View PostFLG 01, on 24 July 2018 - 07:34 PM, said:

*snip*

For one, I'm all for sensible lore-based hero variants. However, I'm going to play devil's advocate here over some likely reasons why PGI doesn't do it all that often.

1. Using the Crab as an example . . . if they stuck to all energy for the hero, it'd be boring. Lets face it, there'd be very little they could do to differentiate it from the other already-existing variants. The Crab already had a jumper, a speed demon, an AMS carrier, and a "standard" variant . . . there's not much else that they could do. ECM? It was created during a time when giving the hero ECM with no standard ECM variants was often decried as PTW. For some chassis the only way to make a hero that's going to really stand out is to do something completely different from the typical variant. The Quickdraw IV is another good example of this, as Quickdraws have almost no differentiation until the more "extreme" 8P, 8X, and 9M.

*As a note, I'll fully admit that I'm all for PGI making heroes that wildly deviate from lore in order to provide a unique hero to an otherwise homogeneous chassis or a chassis where all the notable pilots aka "heroes" pilot either stock versions or versions where the customization sticks within the MWO hardpoint confines of the stock variant.

2. Sometimes PGI likes to take the same creative liberties that they do when creating their own in-house chassis when creating their heroes. I'm sure the art team appreciates the occasional deviation from, "make another (insert faction here) paint scheme". It also allows PGI to throw a bone to people who might not like a particular faction that a mech is associated with, but like the mech.

3. PGI really hasn't done much in the way of hero write-ups and lore tie-ins, outside of their in-house chassis, for quite some time. Call it lazy . . . call it shameful . . . call it a wasted opportunity . . . call it whatever you want, but the fact of the matter is that PGI/Russ is dead set on creating an e-sports scene for MWO over a game that engages in the lore. The gradual shift from "MWO: A Battletech Game" to "MWO" to "MWO: Solaris 7" makes their intent very clear. Expect more and more in-house heroes that look more at home in a Solaris 7 arena, or e-sports tournament, instead of a inter-faction battlefield. This situation for the hero mechs is rather ironic, considering that the rules prohibit base variants that cannot be purchased for c-bills.

4. For every person who is willing to let PGI bend the canon of a lore hero to create something truly unique, there's someone else who will be upset at PGI for daring to deviate from lore. After the release of the Phoenix heroes (around the time of Sparky, I believe) PGI had run a poll about pure lore heroes, or pre-optimized heroes (endo, DHS, etc., even if the lore hero didn't have it). "Pre-optimized" eked out a win, but it wasn't by a huge margin. That's another possibility why PGI has been less inclined to make lore themed heroes . . . they can make a "pre-optimized" purely PGI hero and not set off the lore friendly/unfriendly hero debate.

Who knows, maybe MW5 will have skin packs or built in camo patterns that are just chock full of lore unit paint schemes. Maybe if they make something like that for MW5 they'd eventually make their way into MWO. Maybe PGI will focus on more lore-related heroes on more keynote chassis, like if they get around to doing the remaining classics. Maybe hoping for a concerted focus on lore in MWO has just become a pipe-dream that will never happen (or happen again, if you consider the early days of lore posts with mech releases as being lore rich).

In the mean time, I won't be holding my breath for lore-rich, canon-based heroes for the foreseeable future.

#19522 Odanan

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Posted 29 July 2018 - 04:28 PM

Wow, time flies. We might get a new mech announced in 3 days.

So... Stone Rhino or Turkina? Or Vapor Eagle?

#19523 Virlutris

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Posted 29 July 2018 - 04:41 PM

View PostOdanan, on 29 July 2018 - 04:28 PM, said:

Wow, time flies. We might get a new mech announced in 3 days.

So... Stone Rhino or Turkina? Or Vapor Eagle?


A medium makes good, solid, logical sense.

Therefore, they'll do a heavy or assault. Because Reasons™. Posted Image

#19524 SuperFunkTron

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Posted 30 July 2018 - 05:48 PM

View PostFLG 01, on 24 July 2018 - 07:34 PM, said:

Let me explain:

I do not mind PGI using canon rumours to create hero Mechs. I actually like it. Tempest is a good example of a well used canon rumour; you know, the old Phantom Mech debate. PGI even included a phantom as hanging item. That's great.

But there are hero Mechs which simply don't make sense. I don't mind the fact that PGI creates hero Mechs, but why do they have to be so stupid? There is not one variant of the Crab using ammunition-based weaponry, and Florentine does violate the very idea of the design. At least they could have stayed in-character and use the Clan Busters of ComStar as a guideline. That means a refit centered around the XL 300, and perhaps long range weapons.

Lastly there are wasted opportunities. For example, if you have to create your non-canon Uziel-hero - and you have to due to the lack of (pre-Jihad) lore - use what little lore you have. The one shining moment of the Uziel in the FCCW was the defence of the Defiance plants on Hesperus II. So just give us an Uziel of the Defiance Self-Protection Force. It comes with a distinctive paint scheme, the huge Defiance facilities explain any modification you want, and it uses the FCCW-lore.
And yet, we got some fantasy Uziel that does none of that. How is that not a wasted opportunity?

The same applies, I am afraid to say, to the Champion. I just want some connection to the lore and a sensible hero variant. That should be possible.


I definitely feel you on the wasted hero opportunities. There are so many lore based Dire Wolf heroes we could get (Widowmaker, Prometheus, etc...) that could be made more unique by the quirks applied. I look at the Gargoyle Kin Wolf and wonder how the hell that was chosen over the Conal which would have provided an ECM variant, and I think it's safe to say that ECM alone would not make that variant over powered compared to the rest, but would allow the mech some very badly needed variety for a mech that has severely limited build options. We could probably go mech by mech, but unfortunately we won't get anywhere with it :/

And Sereglach touches on a very painful but real point. There seems to be an increasingly large disconnect from not only lore but the faction vs. faction element of the game. Solaris is fine and has helped get some improvements going, but I still think that working to greatly improve faction diversity and find more interesting ways to utilize those differences to incentivize different kinds of play and faction events would be a much better investment of their resources.

#19525 FLG 01

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Posted 30 July 2018 - 09:07 PM

When it comes to the Clans I personally think Vlad's Executioner is the epitome of a wasted opportunity (though I do not disagree with your examples). You know, the massively overgunned Mech from Phelan's trial...
http://www.masteruni...xecutioner-vlad
....the beauty of Vlad's Executioner is that it is either illegal or using a smaller engine. That alone makes it a radically different variant. It is very likely some editing mistake or a misunderstanding in the writing process. After all, when Stackpole wrote those scenes the Clans and their Mechs were in their earlier stages of development (out-of-universe speaking). Maybe it was a last minute change. But still, it's there, ready to be used for MWO.

I mean, if we want radically different hero Mech configurations, this would have been available and it would be accurate to the lore (albeit not necessarily tournament legal...). I cannot see how Bekker, who is much less well known than Vlad and piloted a standard Executioner for all we know, is a better choice.

Edited by FLG 01, 30 July 2018 - 09:08 PM.


#19526 Marauder3D

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Posted 31 July 2018 - 09:07 AM

Since we are so close to hearing about a potential new mech, do people think it is going to be Clan because we just had an IS mech?

I'm hoping for more IS goodness, because I love the 3025 era. Still hoping for the Crusader despite everything. Prepared to be disappointed.

Cheers,

Mad.

#19527 Odanan

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Posted 31 July 2018 - 12:08 PM

Tomorrow?

#19528 Marauder3D

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Posted 31 July 2018 - 12:13 PM

View PostOdanan, on 31 July 2018 - 12:08 PM, said:

Tomorrow?

That would be brilliant, but since the last mech announcement was only three weeks ago or so, I'm guessing Friday or sometime next week. Next Friday seems plausible too. I'd rather not wait THAT long.

#19529 Odanan

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Posted 01 August 2018 - 05:08 AM

Posted Image
?

#19530 Myke Pantera

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Posted 01 August 2018 - 06:58 AM

View PostOdanan, on 29 July 2018 - 04:28 PM, said:

Wow, time flies. We might get a new mech announced in 3 days.

So... Stone Rhino or Turkina? Or Vapor Eagle?


Although i wouldn't mind either of those 3, my bet is on a non 55t, non 40t clan medium mech. Most likely Shadow Hawk IIC or Conjurer/Hellhound. Outside chance for Mongrel/Grendel, Griffin IIC and Pouncer.

#19531 Karl Streiger

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Posted 01 August 2018 - 07:06 AM

They can bring the Hollander/Hollander, not.

considering that MWO outlived most expectations a Clan Mech would be a liablility - you could use it only in a "AddOn" for MW5 or BattleTech - while any IS Mech can be used by both games as well.

When you really want Clan Mechs the most "money safe" way is to bring alterations of current models IICs or ClanModifications (Gausszilla, Wolverine II, Warhammer IIC, UrbanMech IIC, COmmando IIC, Great Wyrm, Corvis or to "create" models that can be tweaked in both ways for example the Crossbow.

The other alternative is to choose a clan mech with some unhealthy fans that will throw money as long as they know the model from MW4.....


They can bring the Hollander, not.

Edited by Karl Streiger, 01 August 2018 - 07:09 AM.


#19532 MeiSooHaityu

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Posted 01 August 2018 - 07:12 AM

I could see a Turkina being added eventually. I remember those from MechCommander.
Posted Image

#19533 The Lighthouse

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Posted 01 August 2018 - 08:09 AM

View PostMeiSooHaityu, on 01 August 2018 - 07:12 AM, said:

I could see a Turkina being added eventually. I remember those from MechCommander.
Posted Image


I believe not 'those'.

The mech only appears once in a single mission. The map for that mission even has 'boss stage' for this mech.

#19534 MeiSooHaityu

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Posted 01 August 2018 - 08:37 AM

View PostThe Lighthouse, on 01 August 2018 - 08:09 AM, said:


I believe not 'those'.

The mech only appears once in a single mission. The map for that mission even has 'boss stage' for this mech.


I'm pretty sure it shows up more than that. This person had two of them. I don't think he modded the game.

Edited by MeiSooHaityu, 01 August 2018 - 08:37 AM.


#19535 Juodas Varnas

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Posted 01 August 2018 - 08:58 AM

Posted Image
Looks pretty good.

#19536 Odanan

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Posted 01 August 2018 - 09:52 AM

View PostJuodas Varnas, on 01 August 2018 - 08:58 AM, said:

Posted Image
Looks pretty good.

Vulcan! Looks good indeed!

#19537 Marauder3D

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Posted 01 August 2018 - 10:17 AM

Very, very good looking. [For a Vulcan]

Now we just need infantry to roast.

#19538 Alex Morgaine

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Posted 01 August 2018 - 12:55 PM

Yussss, we has plansssss

#19539 FLG 01

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Posted 01 August 2018 - 02:06 PM

So here it is:

Posted Image


Looks a bit WoB-ish if you ask me, but this will easily one of the best mediums - if not the very best. (PGI may want to rethink those BSW-nerfs...)

#19540 Ovion

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Posted 01 August 2018 - 02:11 PM

Clan 55T Battlemech
4B, 4E, 2M (with a Torso Ballistic), JJ
5B, 2E (with 2 Torso Ballistic), JJ
4E, 3M, JJ
7E, 2M
1B, 2E, 4M (with a Torso Ballistic), JJ
3B, 2E, 1M, JJ, MASC





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