20517 replies to this topic

[TheArisen]

FLG 01, on 01 August 2018 - 02:06 PM, said:

So here it is: Looks a bit WoB-ish if you ask me, but this will easily one of the best mediums - if not the very best. (PGI may want to rethink those BSW-nerfs...)

Man the Clans get have been on a roll with getting so many of their best possible choices.

Also yeah, they shouldn't nerf the BSW if the Clans are getting the VEagle.

[Sereglach]

FLG 01, on 01 August 2018 - 02:06 PM, said:

So here it is:




Looks a bit WoB-ish if you ask me, but this will easily one of the best mediums - if not the very best. (PGI may want to rethink those BSW-nerfs...)

Alex worked his magic again. I can't believe that he was able to take something that looked so hideous in it's original line art and make it look so good for MWO (opinion, I know . . . to each their own). To me, personally, it feels less WOBy and more like an actual clan medium Phoenix Hawk . . . it's kind of like what the P-Hawk IIC would have been if it was a medium instead of an assault.

The obviously very good hitboxes, solid hardpoints, and absolutely maxed out engine cap are -I agree- going to make it likely the strongest clan medium in the game. However, I think the results of all of these PTS are going to decide whether the BSW will still be competitive with or without quirk nerfs.

The fact that there's so little PGI would have to do to get me spending money on the game again . . . I'd buy up that mech pack without a doubt. Looks good, good hitboxes, nice hardpoint variety, and no real concern of quirk-dependent viability. Oh well, I've got plenty of open mech bays to buy it for c-bills later, if I so desire.

[FLG 01]

Sereglach, on 01 August 2018 - 03:03 PM, said:

Alex worked his magic again. I can't believe that he was able to take something that looked so hideous in it's original line art and make it look so good for MWO (opinion, I know . . . to each their own).

Many of the original TRO:3055 artworks look terrible, and the Vapor Eagle is no exception indeed. But to the BT-art's credit, Alex did take some inspiration from the rework in TRO:3055U.
In any case I agree it is a beautiful rendition and it is recognizable as Vapor Eagle, which is good.

Btw, the artwork of TRO:3055 is usually ugly. Very ugly. The Mechs themselves however often really good: Falconer, Daikyu, Gunslinger, Cerberus, Nexus, Black Python. They deserve attention. If Alex could save the Vapor Eagle, he can easily do those too.

[Spheroid]

I don't see it being overpowered. The standard pack variants are pretty meh. What are you going to run on it, ATM 27 with a smaller engine?

Only the 7E variant looks interesting.

[Sereglach]

Spheroid, on 01 August 2018 - 05:27 PM, said:

I don't see it being overpowered. The standard pack variants are pretty meh. What are you going to run on it, ATM 27 with a smaller engine?

Only the 7E variant looks interesting.

I'd have to respectfully disagree there. I think all of the variants have pretty solid hardpoint variety for a wide array of solid builds. Purely laser vomit meta? No . . . but certainly useful. All of the features combined are going to make it extremely strong, though . . . everything from the hitboxes to hardpoints to -what should be- a great cockpit view. After all, from what we've seen, the clan Battlemechs tend to be stronger than their omnimech brethren, overall, even if some of the strongest mechs in the game are still clan omnimechs.

Although if we want to nit-pick the mech . . . about the only thing I'd change, just for a more unique flavor, would be to swap the B and E hardpoints on the Hero . . . just to do something a little different by reversing the mech's normal hardpoint placements. That gun arm would probably look pretty good sporting a bigger autocannon or gauss rifle . . . just saying.

[Sereglach]

FLG 01, on 01 August 2018 - 05:25 PM, said:

Many of the original TRO:3055 artworks look terrible, and the Vapor Eagle is no exception indeed. But to the BT-art's credit, Alex did take some inspiration from the rework in TRO:3055U.
In any case I agree it is a beautiful rendition and it is recognizable as Vapor Eagle, which is good.

Btw, the artwork of TRO:3055 is usually ugly. Very ugly. The Mechs themselves however often really good: Falconer, Daikyu, Gunslinger, Cerberus, Nexus, Black Python. They deserve attention. If Alex could save the Vapor Eagle, he can easily do those too.

I fully agree that every bit of mech art I've seen in TRO 3055 is pretty bad. Even the one's that weren't utterly terrible . . . I think the Fireball is the only one that comes to mind . . . were still pretty ugly. However, again, it's just personal taste I suppose, but all artwork I've seen of the Goshawk/Vapor Eagle I've just thought was hideous.

Now that I've looked at more artwork, though . . . I'd say Alex took most of his inspiration from the Goshawk II. I'll admit I think it looks FAR better than any artwork of the original (still some issues with it, like the weird external hoses), but it's a 45 ton experimental mess of a chassis. We'd never see the Goshawk II in MWO, because it's such a mess, but the artwork is certainly a lot newer. There's a lot of similarity with Alex's work in the cockpit (the head is nearly identical to the Goshawk II), shoulders, and feet.

[Valdarion Silarius]

Sereglach, on 01 August 2018 - 06:31 PM, said:

Now that I've looked at more artwork, though . . . I'd say Alex took most of his inspiration from the Goshawk II.

You're right. I was scratching my head there for a minute looking at the TRO artwork, and was wondering what the heck the MW:O version was inspired from. This is one of those times where I'm going to have to criticize Alex for not sticking with the source material, at least for the cockpit region. I'm not entirely sure why you would base it off the Goshawk II over the reseen artwork, unless there is some source stating that people favored the Goshawk II over the original design.

Doesn't matter for me regardless, since we still don't know how long PGI preplans their mechs in advance, which in return leaves me at zero percent in customer faith for what they have in store for us. At least if we had a general time frame for how long PGI plan their mechs in advance, I would have a general idea of when I can check back here for something possibly exciting. My wallet will remained sealed in the meantime.

[Sereglach]

Arnold The Governator, on 01 August 2018 - 07:33 PM, said:

You're right. I was scratching my head there for a minute looking at the TRO artwork, and was wondering what the heck the MW:O version was inspired from. This is one of those times where I'm going to have to criticize Alex for not sticking with the source material, at least for the cockpit region. I'm not entirely sure why you would base it off the Goshawk II over the reseen artwork, unless there is some source stating that people favored the Goshawk II over the original design.

Personally, I'd still say that Alex was/is sticking to the source material. The Goshawk II is to the Goshawk/Vapor Eagle as the Hollander II is to the Hollander or the Hermes II to the Hermes . . . in a sense it's considered almost like variants of the original and intentionally built to look like the original, but it's built at a different tonnage bracket. It's a definite relation that's fully intended to mimic it's "sibling" in appearance. However, due to tech and being too similar to the original, I think it's beyond safe to say we'll never see the Goshawk II in MWO. Therefore the art basically becomes newer styled Goshawk/Vapor Eagle reference material for Alex to pull from.

Regardless, while some inspiration is obviously pulled from the newer Goshawk II artwork (particularly and especially the head), it's obvious that there's still a great deal of influence from the original TRO 3055 artwork (hip structure, triangular knees, arm guns, missile hardpoints) and the TRO 3055U (rounded/curvy body structure, upper/lower leg plating, recessed torso hardpoints). I'd be more inclined to say that Alex made an amalgamation of all the different artwork, that's related to the mech in question, in order to create something new and unique to MWO.

Besides, would you rather have the singular tiny cockpit pane of the original Vapor Eagle artwork, or would you rather have the obviously really nice three-circle and interconnected, massively wide cockpit glass of Alex's version? Even if there are some poorly place screens, you're going to have great visibility no matter what. Considering some of the complaints I've read about the recent Piranha's tunnel vision, I think I know which one most of the community would rather see.

[Adridos]

Sereglach, on 01 August 2018 - 06:31 PM, said:

Now that I've looked at more artwork, though . . . I'd say Alex took most of his inspiration from the Goshawk II.

Eh. Kind of, but not really.
The fins at the top of the head are from the II, but the cockpit window is 100% Pacific Rim concept art of the Chinese (I mean, glorious Capellan!) machine. Which is in line with the Phoenix Hawk, which got its new face from Striker Eureka, also from the movie.

The chest piece is undeniably inspired by Armored Core parts. Don't remember the company making them, but one of the design patterns was that very same three-peak, bubbly sort of design.

The handheld gun is UT/Quake style of design through and through.


The design has lots of influences in it. It's what makes it so great. I highly recommend checking Alex's Twitter from time to time to see the kind of sources he draws inspiration from.

[Odanan]

Sereglach, on 01 August 2018 - 06:31 PM, said:

There's a lot of similarity with Alex's work in the cockpit (the head is nearly identical to the Goshawk II), shoulders, and feet.

I was wondering where did Alex Iglesias get that cool cockpit. Indeed, it's the Goshawk II.

[SuperFunkTron]

Just to get it out of the way, I am disappointed that they did not announce the Phantom or Pouncer.

Now that my whining is out of the way: I can definitely appreciate the value of this mech being the new release. It being a battlemech with a variety of solid hard points means that this thing can be fine tuned either for fast strikes and light hunting or slowed down to provide a very heavy punch in conjunction with bigger mechs. I may end up pre-ordering for the first time in a long time.

[TheArisen]

Well next up is (probably) an IS mech. Any thoughts on what it will be given the most recent selections?

[FLG 01]

The last three IS Mechs were Mechs which can be used in both games, MWO and MW:5 (and HBS BT). And first we got a light Mech (Flea), then a medium (Vulcan), and the most recent one is a heavy (Champion). If they continue this trens, the next Mech should be some assault which was used in the 4th SW and the FCCW.

...and that could well be the Charger. The only other alternatives (when it comes to assaults) are Thug and Longbow. If 3039 is ok, some others come to mind, i.e. the Devastator, the Spartan, and the Katana.

However, PGI might bring another heavy as they are the bread and butter of MWO. And there are many options: Ostroc and Ostsol, Crusader (if legally possible), and a number of SL-Mechs, i.e. the Lancelot, Bombardier, Guillotine, or Flashman. The 60t Mechs are less likely to follow after the Champion, so that limits the selection a bit. Also, Bombardier and Guillotine are pretty much redundant. That leaves us with Crusader and Flashman.

I would think we get the Charger or, if legally possible, the Crusader. But then, PGI could make a 180 turn and release more FCCW-material - especially IS Omnis. Or they could just release another medium. It's hard to predict, so I would not count on my guess...


As a huge fan of the FCCW-era I was naturally disappointed by most of the previous choices for the IS which had very little to do with the FCCW (and did not well in MWO either). So I would love to see some typical FCCW-era Mechs like the Falconer or the Dragon Fire, especially since they'd be quite potent in game.

Edited by FLG 01, 03 August 2018 - 08:47 PM.

[TheArisen]

FLG 01, on 03 August 2018 - 08:37 PM, said:

The last three IS Mechs were Mechs which can be used in both games, MWO and MW:5 (and HBS BT). And first we got a light Mech (Flea), then a medium (Vulcan), and the most recent one is a heavy (Champion). If they continue this trens, the next Mech should be some assault which was used in the 4th SW and the FCCW.

...and that could well be the Charger. The only other alternatives (when it comes to assaults) are Thug and Longbow. If 3039 is ok, some others come to mind, i.e. the Devastator, the Spartan, and the Katana.

However, PGI might bring another heavy as they are the bread and butter of MWO. And there are many options: Ostroc and Ostsol, Crusader (if legally possible), and a number of SL-Mechs, i.e. the Lancelot, Bombardier, Guillotine, or Flashman. The 60t Mechs are less likely to follow after the Champion, so that limits the selection a bit. Also, Bombardier and Guillotine are pretty much redundant. That leaves us with Crusader and Flashman.

I would think we get the Charger or, if legally possible, the Crusader. But then, PGI could make a 180 turn and release more FCCW-material - especially IS Omnis. Or they could just release another medium. It's hard to predict, so I would not count on my guess...


As a huge fan of the FCCW-era I was naturally disappointed by most of the previous choices for the IS which had very little to do with the FCCW (and did not well in MWO either). So I would love to see some typical FCCW-era Mechs like the Falconer or the Dragon Fire, especially since they'd be quite potent in game.

I would love the Dragonfire so flipping much. Even more so if they're smart and use hp inflation to differentiate the variants.
3F could get 1 extra ballistic 3B, 3E, ECM
4F 1 extra energy 2B, 4E, ECM
3FC 2 extra balistics 4B, 3E
6FC 2 extra energy 2B, 5E
I'm not sure what to do with the hero to make it unique. Masc? JJ? 5B, 2E? Energy arms but ballistic torsos? 1B, 6E? A combo of these? It also needs one more regular variant.

I do agree though that the trend suggests the next mech will be an IS assault. Charger also seems quite plausible. If done right, the IS could have a good 80 tonner that's not too quirk dependent.

[Sereglach]

FLG 01, on 03 August 2018 - 08:37 PM, said:

...and that could well be the Charger. The only other alternatives (when it comes to assaults) are Thug and Longbow. If 3039 is ok, some others come to mind, i.e. the Devastator, the Spartan, and the Katana.

However, PGI might bring another heavy as they are the bread and butter of MWO. And there are many options: Ostroc and Ostsol, Crusader (if legally possible), and a number of SL-Mechs, i.e. the Lancelot, Bombardier, Guillotine, or Flashman. The 60t Mechs are less likely to follow after the Champion, so that limits the selection a bit. Also, Bombardier and Guillotine are pretty much redundant. That leaves us with Crusader and Flashman.

I would think we get the Charger or, if legally possible, the Crusader. But then, PGI could make a 180 turn and release more FCCW-material - especially IS Omnis. Or they could just release another medium. It's hard to predict, so I would not count on my guess...

First off, we know from Tina that mechs are locked in literal months in advance of any announcements . . . so again, I'd say that we're not likely to see any more classics announced until Mech Con. If we go as low as a 3 month window (1 quarter), then with the legal case ended towards the end of June, then we can presume the 3rd quarter was already locked in . . . at the very least. Therefore, the absolute earliest for a new classic announcement would be October. However, by that point it's so close to Mech Con that they'd probably just save such a grandiose announcement for Mech Con hype (edit: Not that it'd be THE announcement of Mech Con, since they use that for in-house chassis, but that they'd use it to say that remaining classics are incoming over the next couple of months . . . maybe multiple chassis announcements during Mech Con).

As far as the other mechs go, I'd be okay with any of the 3025 mechs you listed. Even though there are so many chassis out there, I'd love to see PGI put out as many mechs as possible that are viable for both MW5 as well as HBS Battletech. Granted, there are newer chassis I wouldn't mind seeing, either, but I just really want the 3025 roster fully fleshed out as it's something that even MW2 Mercenaries (the largest roster of chassis before MWO) wasn't able to fully accomplish.

Regarding the chassis you specifically listed, I think there's some nice things that could be done to make them unique in MWO. In particular I think the likely Flashman, Charger, and Thug all provide good options:

While it's another energy boat, I'd love to see what Alex would do with the Flashman; and the fact that it comes with AMS on the "base" variant means the IS might finally see a chassis able to carry 3 AMS units (it'd be a great way to differentiate a variant) . . . which would be quite convenient given a current QP meta shift (if you can call it meta) to a lot of missiles. Other variants would be a great opportunity for PGI to introduce custom Gyros and small cockpits, too (which would benefit light mechs probably more than any other class). On the other hand, the sheer volume of stock hardpoints on the Flashman series (11E stock on a 9M) would give the IS a strong competitor to clan laser vomit.

The Charger 1A1 would be a lot like the Banshee 3M thanks to MWO's mechlab. I think it'd actually turn into a solid machine, especially since hardpoint inflation would likely give it 8+ energy hardpoints and the mech archetype should ensure higher than average agility stats (torso twist, etc.) for an assault. The "Challenger" variant . . . also purportedly the Storrs variant, would make a solid hero not only due to lore, but also because of a unique loadout that puts hardpoints across most of the mech.

I've always liked the look of the Thug. It's unique, and I think Alex can do great things with it. While the variants don't provide a lot to work with, there's at least a solid ECM variant, an all energy variant using HPPCs, and canonical information for PGI to make a jumping variant, either as a Hero or to make up their own variants to fill in for some of the redundant variants. I certainly wouldn't complain about what equates to a jumping Awesome or an Energy/Missile brawler.

That's also just looking at those mechs in stock fashion. Of course quirks could take some from "okay" or even "good" to "excellent"; and there's plenty of other variables to consider. On the other hand, I'd also happily wait to see any of those chassis if the announced mech was a Clint or Mongoose . . . also 3025 mechs and some of my favorites that aren't released, yet.

Edited by Sereglach, 04 August 2018 - 09:30 AM.

[Odanan]

FLG 01, on 03 August 2018 - 08:37 PM, said:

The last three IS Mechs were Mechs which can be used in both games, MWO and MW:5 (and HBS BT). And first we got a light Mech (Flea), then a medium (Vulcan), and the most recent one is a heavy (Champion). If they continue this trens, the next Mech should be some assault which was used in the 4th SW and the FCCW.

...and that could well be the Charger.

This.

They most likely already have the Charger's concept art. Rememenber the polls years ago? All mechs were released, except the Charger.

The only problem I see in this mech is: the main variant would be too bad (as stock) in MW5 and HBS Battletech.

A Crockett (with Katana as reinforcement) pack would be nice too.

[Sereglach]

Odanan, on 04 August 2018 - 12:21 PM, said:

They most likely already have the Charger's concept art. Rememenber the polls years ago? All mechs were released, except the Charger.

The only problem I see in this mech is: the main variant would be too bad (as stock) in MW5 and HBS Battletech.

A Crockett (with Katana as reinforcement) pack would be nice too.

In HBS Battletech it'd probably melee harder than any other Assault, making it a terrifying brawler. You'd probably be able to rip the lasers off and just add the extra 2.5 tons of armor to it. There's also nothing saying that HBS wouldn't add multiple variants, like they have for other mechs in similar situations.

For MW5 we still don't know how involved mech customization will be. They're currently saying that it'll be somewhat similar to HBS Battletech, but it's nowhere near final.

Regardless, for MWO it'd be a nice mech; and that's currently the context in which we truly have to judge the mech.

Edited by Sereglach, 04 August 2018 - 08:09 PM.

[FLG 01]

Odanan, on 04 August 2018 - 12:21 PM, said:

The only problem I see in this mech is: the main variant would be too bad (as stock) in MW5 and HBS Battletech.

It is called Charger for a reason, in a BT-game you literally charge the enemy and deal devastating damage in a melee. One should not be misled by the fluff. The Charger is a credible threat on a 3025 battlefield, especially since everybody overheats all the time and many mount torso bombs (i.e. ammo with no padding and, of course, no CASE).

The Charger's strong point in MWI, besides nostalgia, is the diversity of its variants. You can do pretty much everything with it.
Of course you know it, but let me just say again that one should not judge a Mech by it's primary stock variant. With the MechLab, even the CGR-1A1 can work, and variants like the CGR-SA5 are downright good (even if it had to be adapted to MWO).

I mean, no variant strikes me as particularly strong or meta but I can see it work. Depending on the geometry, I really would like to try an XL engine. The Mech is rather tall and thin, with big shield arms. (Before we got the LFE, I always used XL on the Zeus btw.).

TheArisen, on 04 August 2018 - 01:21 AM, said:

I'm not sure what to do with the hero to make it unique. Masc? JJ? 5B, 2E? Energy arms but ballistic torsos? 1B, 6E? A combo of these? It also needs one more regular variant.

The problem is that all the Dragon Fire variants are more or less the same. Hardpoint inflation and quirks can do something good though.

Anyway, the beauty of the Dragon Fire is not so much the ECM. The fact that we can carry two AC/20s in the arms, or two Gauss, and back them up with some energy weapons is most interesting to me. Also geometry is potentially good and the hardpoints are mounted on cockpit level - well, with one obvious exception...

There is a fully canonical hero Mech, modified to the needs of its MechWarrior and only using technology which is available in MWO. However, that too uses the same hardpoints. It is the Dragon Fire of Michael Searcy, Solaris-fighter and main character of the novel Illusion of Victory. He removed the ECM, replaced the Gauss with a LGR and the LB-10X with an AC/20 (probably an LB-20X but iirc that is not said explicitely). He later removed the smaller lasers to make room for a LPL. But again, this could be easily worked by adding special quirks. AC/20-quirks come to mind. And given that Searcy is a Solaris-fighter it fits the current S7-theme of MWO.

There are other options, of course. We know of at least six (!) other named MechWarriors: Aubry Larsen (Solaris), Billy Dragomil (9th Ghost), Gerald DuBois (Fighting Urukhai), Julie Hoffman (Alarion Jäger), Baroness Monique Reins (2nd Robinson Rangers), and Gerst (Kathil CMM). They have some very interesting paintschemes, if nothing else!

I personally would prefer the Falconer, and not just because of Lyran pride. I would love to pilot a 75t cavalry Mech with an XL375 and JJ. Add a Marauder-geometry to it and I am happy. (Yes, I know the Thanatos technically can do it, too, but you all know its geometry makes such a build useless).

Edited by FLG 01, 04 August 2018 - 07:15 PM.

[TheArisen]

FLG 01, on 04 August 2018 - 06:54 PM, said:

It is called Charger for a reason, in a BT-game you literally charge the enemy and deal devastating damage in a melee. One should not be misled by the fluff. The Charger is a credible threat on a 3025 battlefield, especially since everybody overheats all the time and many mount torso bombs (i.e. ammo with no padding and, of course, no CASE).

The Charger's strong point in MWI, besides nostalgia, is the diversity of its variants. You can do pretty much everything with it.
Of course you know it, but let me just say again that one should not judge a Mech by it's primary stock variant. With the MechLab, even the CGR-1A1 can work, and variants like the CGR-SA5 are downright good (even if it had to be adapted to MWO).

I mean, no variant strikes me as particularly strong or meta but I can see it work. Depending on the geometry, I really would like to try an XL engine. The Mech is rather tall and thin, with big shield arms. (Before we got the LFE, I always used XL on the Zeus btw.).



The problem is that all the Dragon Fire variants are more or less the same. Hardpoint inflation and quirks can do something good though.

Anyway, the beauty of the Dragon Fire is not so much the ECM. The fact that we can carry two AC/20s in the arms, or two Gauss, and back them up with some energy weapons is most interesting to me. Also geometry is potentially good and the hardpoints are mounted on cockpit level - well, with one obvious exception...

There is a fully canonical hero Mech, modified to the needs of its MechWarrior and only using technology which is available in MWO. However, that too uses the same hardpoints. It is the Dragon Fire of Michael Searcy, Solaris-fighter and main character of the novel Illusion of Victory. He removed the ECM, replaced the Gauss with a LGR and the LB-10X with an AC/20 (probably an LB-20X but iirc that is not said explicitely). He later removed the smaller lasers to make room for a LPL. But again, this could be easily worked by adding special quirks. AC/20-quirks come to mind. And given that Searcy is a Solaris-fighter it fits the current S7-theme of MWO.

There are other options, of course. We know of at least six (!) other named MechWarriors: Aubry Larsen (Solaris), Billy Dragomil (9th Ghost), Gerald DuBois (Fighting Urukhai), Julie Hoffman (Alarion Jäger), Baroness Monique Reins (2nd Robinson Rangers), and Gerst (Kathil CMM). They have some very interesting paintschemes, if nothing else!

I personally would prefer the Falconer, and not just because of Lyran pride. I would love to pilot a 75t cavalry Mech with an XL375 and JJ. Add a Marauder-geometry to it and I am happy. (Yes, I know the Thanatos technically can do it, too, but you all know its geometry makes such a build useless).

Well part of the idea of heroes is to offer unique or different hardpoints, etc. So I think the ideal would be to have a hero with unknown hardpoints so they can do that. Of course actual lore heroes are always cool.

The Falconer would be amazing so yes plz PGI. I've had success with the Thanatos using X2 Lbx20s and mrms but yeah it just doesn't work with any builds that use a bigger engine.

[Rinkata Prime]

Odanan, on 02 August 2018 - 05:40 AM, said:

I was wondering where did Alex Iglesias get that cool cockpit. Indeed, it's the Goshawk II.

And this is great, because Goshawk II is actually a modified version of Vapor Eagle!