1236 replies to this topic

[Bishop Steiner]

Ultimatum X, on 28 February 2015 - 07:27 PM, said:

That wasn't the interesting bit.








I was pretty surprised by his opinion to be honest. Interesting though.

I'm not. If I recall correctly he was full on in the Poptart Meta. So if a chassis can fit that niche, to his mind and playstyle, it's amazing. Thing is, for those who either can't or don't play that style? It's still largely substandard. Also, generally find Poptarting mechs mediocre at best Solo. Pretty sure if someone of similar skill gets up in his grill, it's still as undergunned for furball for him as it is for anyone else.

As for the "only true poptart" left? I'd say the VND-1R would disagree. But to each their own. He has the skill to back up his opinion, but I'd say it's about as much the second best heavy in the game as the VND is the second best Medium. For me, it may be. But for the other 99.99% of people playing the game? Not so much. Pretty much the same story with the Summoner.

[YueFei]

The Summoner *could* be all about its ability to add firepower where-ever it's needed to help friendlies.

That would basically require ridiculous jump jet height to be able to lay fire to large portions of the map (so re-work how JJs scale, possibly giving JJ quirks... as if the Summoner had even more JJs than it really does), as well as heat generation quirks so it can keep shooting. It already has the extra speed quirk. Oh, and greater vertical pitch so it can actually bend down far enough to land hits on enemies with its torso mounts.

So, while it wouldn't necessarily outgun anything in its weight class, taken as a whole within the framework of a team, the Summoner would be known for its ability to help teammates trade from just about anywhere on the map, simply because it could reach LOLwut places and hit enemies from all kinds of hilarious vantage points in the sky.

[Detriitus]

Bishop Steiner, on 28 February 2015 - 04:02 PM, said:

Probably. Which is great...if we want the current meta to be strengthened. I'd rather see more variety available, and Omnimechs get much lower and more generic quirks, befitting their "omni" nature.

Agreed. Especially for the Summoner the quirks should make options viable and not a chosen few uncomparable.

[Bishop Steiner]

YueFei, on 28 February 2015 - 11:30 PM, said:

The Summoner *could* be all about its ability to add firepower where-ever it's needed to help friendlies.

That would basically require ridiculous jump jet height to be able to lay fire to large portions of the map (so re-work how JJs scale, possibly giving JJ quirks... as if the Summoner had even more JJs than it really does), as well as heat generation quirks so it can keep shooting. It already has the extra speed quirk. Oh, and greater vertical pitch so it can actually bend down far enough to land hits on enemies with its torso mounts.

So, while it wouldn't necessarily outgun anything in its weight class, taken as a whole within the framework of a team, the Summoner would be known for its ability to help teammates trade from just about anywhere on the map, simply because it could reach LOLwut places and hit enemies from all kinds of hilarious vantage points in the sky.

Just have visions of it reigniting the poptart meta all over again. Much as I love my Summoner, I would rather it be useless then to restart that.

(Which is why I really wish Paul had listened to me, and simply extended the JJ "cockpit shake" into the down drop, as it would have required nearly no effort on their part, and not required them to uber nerf the VTR and HGN and JJs in general, for mobility)

If they could be done in such a way as to not promote poptarting though? I'd be all for it.

[Utilyan]

Poptart Freedom = every MechWarrior before.


I think its fun. Of course the guy who doesn't think its fun.....reminds me of the fellah who was playing battlefield 4......complaining about folks killing him from the roof of buildings......

They're brain muscles haven't quite grasped 3 dimensional perspective.

I think they should put JJ and pop tarts back to their original unrestricted mode. And instead of nerfing it. They should buff that noob pilot with tutorials on vertical combat.
Poptart complaining just same as LRM complaining.

[Wintersdark]

Utilyan, on 01 March 2015 - 05:20 AM, said:

Poptart Freedom = every MechWarrior before.


I think its fun. Of course the guy who doesn't think its fun.....reminds me of the fellah who was playing battlefield 4......complaining about folks killing him from the roof of buildings......

They're brain muscles haven't quite grasped 3 dimensional perspective.

I think they should put JJ and pop tarts back to their original unrestricted mode. And instead of nerfing it. They should buff that noob pilot with tutorials on vertical combat.
Poptart complaining just same as LRM complaining.

It's not about "Oh, vertical combat is scary".


The problem is that poptarting as it was was simply all reward, no risk - It was easy, and by and far the safest way to fight. It's a valid (and still viable) strategy, but not nearly as good as it was.

There was no answering strategy, no Rock to Poptart's Scissors.

Vertical combat is all well and good, and still exists. You can still get up on buildings, and there's lots of value to taking elevated positions particularly if you've got high-mounted weapons and can use the edges of the buildings as effective cover.

However, poptarting as it stood had no counter. None.

So, the way to go was basically poptart yourself or simply be at a disadvantage, and that didn't promote good gameplay.

[Mcgral18]

Wintersdark, on 01 March 2015 - 07:45 AM, said:

It's not about "Oh, vertical combat is scary".


The problem is that poptarting as it was was simply all reward, no risk - It was easy, and by and far the safest way to fight. It's a valid (and still viable) strategy, but not nearly as good as it was.

There was no answering strategy, no Rock to Poptart's Scissors.

Vertical combat is all well and good, and still exists. You can still get up on buildings, and there's lots of value to taking elevated positions particularly if you've got high-mounted weapons and can use the edges of the buildings as effective cover.

However, poptarting as it stood had no counter. None.

So, the way to go was basically poptart yourself or simply be at a disadvantage, and that didn't promote good gameplay.

With the current state of lasers, and if JJs were less controllable (IE, not be able to only expose your weapons, fire an alpha, then drop down) a state of balance could exist.


If you aren't seen, you can deal some damage, but if you are see, you'll be open to any attack. Maybe add in some slower falling, like MWLL. That poptarting had both risk and reward (while also being very hot).

Edited by Mcgral18, 01 March 2015 - 08:33 AM.

[Bishop Steiner]

Utilyan, on 01 March 2015 - 05:20 AM, said:

Poptart Freedom = every MechWarrior before.


I think its fun. Of course the guy who doesn't think its fun.....reminds me of the fellah who was playing battlefield 4......complaining about folks killing him from the roof of buildings......

They're brain muscles haven't quite grasped 3 dimensional perspective.

I think they should put JJ and pop tarts back to their original unrestricted mode. And instead of nerfing it. They should buff that noob pilot with tutorials on vertical combat.
Poptart complaining just same as LRM complaining.

or perhaps the guy has a different sense of fun, than you? Nearly stationary pogostick battles, all match, every match? Some of us find that rather boring, actually.

It was never about not being able to poptart. Because tbh, any idiot can. It's the fact some of us like our game to have a little more variety. Sorry if that concept is as hard for you to grasp as "vertical combat" seems to be for others.

[Bishop Steiner]

Mcgral18, on 01 March 2015 - 08:20 AM, said:

With the current state of lasers, and if JJs were less controllable (IE, not be able to only expose your weapons, fire an alpha, then drop down) a state of balance could exist.


If you aren't see, you can deal some damage, but if you are see, you'll be open to any attack. Maybe add in some slower falling, like MWLL. That poptarting had both risk and reward (while also being very hot).

The simplest, and best IMO (yes a few "Pros" did not like it, yet when I asked them to explain WHY it was a bad idea, not one single one could or did.), is to utilize the already existent "Reticle Shake" mechanic.

On the up jump, the crosshair bounce all over the place. When you cut violent thrust, the vibrations don't stop instantaneously, nor would the targeting computer instantly have the weapons perfectly aligned again. Moving a 7 ton gun takes time.

Simply extend the JJ shake for a full second (can be reduced some if needed, .5 seconds may prove sufficient.) after thrust is cut (preferably having it scale down over the duration.), and the issue is solved. And yes, it really is that simple.

By doing this;

-one needs to equip more JJs if one want's to jump high enough to still have a target window when the shaking stops. So thanks to the thrust scaling and this, no more "1 JJ specials".
-because one has to jump higher, you risk more leg damage now, if you don't equip enough JJs and save enough thrust to cushion said landing.
-Because one now has to jump high enough to have weapons exposed when the reticle stops shaking, one is forced to expose more of the mech, for a longer period, thus reducing the ridiculous risk to reward ratio that Poptarting once enjoyed.

And why is it better than what we currently have, since Poptarting is so significantly reduced, now?

-Because one could restore the old level of jump jet thrust and mobility without it incurring the "Rise of the Poptart Overlords" again.
-There would be zero reason for the VTR nd HGN to jump so poorly and have such poor aerial agility, which still significantly restricts their brawling ability.
-No need for "all or nothing" or other violent/uncontrolled thrust mechanics.

And it literally would require what, adjusting a line of code in an HTML file?

Edited by Bishop Steiner, 01 March 2015 - 08:48 AM.

[Wintersdark]

Mcgral18, on 01 March 2015 - 08:20 AM, said:

With the current state of lasers, and if JJs were less controllable (IE, not be able to only expose your weapons, fire an alpha, then drop down) a state of balance could exist.


If you aren't seen, you can deal some damage, but if you are see, you'll be open to any attack. Maybe add in some slower falling, like MWLL. That poptarting had both risk and reward (while also being very hot).

No argument here.

Poptarting can be balanced with the right changes to JJ's, absolutely.

My argument with the post I quoted was entirely with regards to his "bring back poptarting as it was" - that's a terrible idea.

Poptarting is fine, so long as it's balanced in such a way so that it's a tool in your arsenal, not the One True Path it once was.

Bishop Steiner, on 01 March 2015 - 08:39 AM, said:

And it literally would require what, adjusting a line of code in an HTML file?

While I agree completely with your solution (and often said the same thing back in the Poptart Days, it would be more than just a line of code.

Doable, certainly, but you want to ensure you don't have crazy reticule shake every time your mech is falling - it's entirely possible (even probable) that the game cannot currently differentiate between "I just stopped jumping" and "I just started falling", or else we could have an issue where simply running over uneven terrain causes ridiculous shake.

While I can see arguments that said shake would be fine, that's a big can of worms.

[RedDevil]

The shake just needs to be enough to make sniping hard to do. It probably doesn't need to be much more than 1 or 2 degrees shake each side while airborne.

Edited by reddevil, 01 March 2015 - 10:18 AM.

[YueFei]

Bishop Steiner, on 01 March 2015 - 04:32 AM, said:

Just have visions of it reigniting the poptart meta all over again. Much as I love my Summoner, I would rather it be useless then to restart that.

(Which is why I really wish Paul had listened to me, and simply extended the JJ "cockpit shake" into the down drop, as it would have required nearly no effort on their part, and not required them to uber nerf the VTR and HGN and JJs in general, for mobility)

If they could be done in such a way as to not promote poptarting though? I'd be all for it.

Yeah I do like your suggestion for reticule shake gradually subsiding after the jets are released (rather than instantaneous). That way, a mech with only 1 JJ that can barely get any altittude will basically not be able to get enough air and hang time for the shake to subside so he can fire accurately.

But then at the same time a mech like the Summoner that drops in 5 JJs would be able to reach the necessary altitude, so that there's enough hang time for the shake to subside and he can fire accurately.

That, and by requiring a higher jump, he's more exposed to enemy fire, so he can't just jump up in front of several enemy mechs with low risk of them all coordinating shots into him at the same time. He still has to be smart about where he jumps up for his shot, lest he jump up in front of an entire firing line and gets obliterated.

This might also have the effect that jump-brawling is minimally effected, if the shake gradually centers the reticules back to true, in a short range fight you don't necessarily have to wait that long on the way down to fire, since you don't need to be as accurate. Jump sniping would require greater hang time and waiting longer for it to settle.

To avoid screwing over Light mechs who engage in jump shots with Lasers, since they already have to jump for 1 extra second of hang-time anyways for the laser burn, they could make the reticle shake subside much more quickly for a Light mech than for the heavier weight classes.

Edited by YueFei, 01 March 2015 - 10:31 AM.

[Bishop Steiner]

YueFei, on 01 March 2015 - 10:23 AM, said:

Yeah I do like your suggestion for reticule shake gradually subsiding after the jets are released (rather than instantaneous). That way, a mech with only 1 JJ that can barely get any altittude will basically not be able to get enough air and hang time for the shake to subside so he can fire accurately.

But then at the same time a mech like the Summoner that drops in 5 JJs would be able to reach the necessary altitude, so that there's enough hang time for the shake to subside and he can fire accurately.

True, but for a large tonnage investment, and still in a small window where is mech is exposed for a considerable amount of return fire. Thus making it viable, but no longer EZMode desirable, as a tactic.

Wintersdark, on 01 March 2015 - 10:09 AM, said:

No argument here.

Poptarting can be balanced with the right changes to JJ's, absolutely.

My argument with the post I quoted was entirely with regards to his "bring back poptarting as it was" - that's a terrible idea.

Poptarting is fine, so long as it's balanced in such a way so that it's a tool in your arsenal, not the One True Path it once was.



While I agree completely with your solution (and often said the same thing back in the Poptart Days, it would be more than just a line of code.

Doable, certainly, but you want to ensure you don't have crazy reticule shake every time your mech is falling - it's entirely possible (even probable) that the game cannot currently differentiate between "I just stopped jumping" and "I just started falling", or else we could have an issue where simply running over uneven terrain causes ridiculous shake.

While I can see arguments that said shake would be fine, that's a big can of worms.

Actually, it is, if I recall correctly literally just a line of HTML. One changes the time values, it's not like we are adding something new and difficult, the mechanic is already there. It's a matter of modifying it's parameters.

Currently the parameters for the shake are triggered by the JJs. Don't see where falling even has to enter the equation, unless they did lazy programming to begin with.

Edited by Bishop Steiner, 01 March 2015 - 10:29 AM.

[Utilyan]

Wintersdark, on 01 March 2015 - 07:45 AM, said:

It's not about "Oh, vertical combat is scary".


The problem is that poptarting as it was was simply all reward, no risk - It was easy, and by and far the safest way to fight. It's a valid (and still viable) strategy, but not nearly as good as it was.

There was no answering strategy, no Rock to Poptart's Scissors.

Vertical combat is all well and good, and still exists. You can still get up on buildings, and there's lots of value to taking elevated positions particularly if you've got high-mounted weapons and can use the edges of the buildings as effective cover.

However, poptarting as it stood had no counter. None.

So, the way to go was basically poptart yourself or simply be at a disadvantage, and that didn't promote good gameplay.

No answering strategy? seriously? so when you pop tart you were just absolutely invincible?


Here's my answer strategy, Get a better pilot. It was in all previous MechWarrior titles. It wasn't even a ******* complaint then. You heard more about folks getting legged.

I equate the POPTART whiner to the LRM whiner, the guy who can't figure out how to take cover.


I invite you folks to look over an old poptart thread back in the day when it was ruthless http://mwomercs.com/...96663-poptarts/

There was like one whiner on it calling for nerf. Poptarts are a danger to pugs (noobs more accurately).

I still agree with them. If Poptarts are a problem for someone, then they don't know what the fk they're doing.

If you read back in the history poptarts are pretty much a issue as LRMS, real **** hits the fan when the highlander comes out. Everyone at that point rides a highlander. It was a new mech, it was an assault. So you had these highlander n' 3D's. And they pop tart really well.

[Utilyan]

Bishop Steiner, on 01 March 2015 - 08:27 AM, said:

or perhaps the guy has a different sense of fun, than you?

I could accept this. If your going for a particular style of game.

[Wintersdark]

Utilyan, on 03 March 2015 - 09:03 AM, said:

No answering strategy? seriously? so when you pop tart you were just absolutely invincible?

Obviously not, don't be obtuse.

The best strategy to meet poptarts... was poptarting. The reason that in MWO, poptarting was dominant (and it absolutely, inarguably was) was that it, combined with the other game mechanics at the time (critical point) provided a way to direct PPFLD with the least possible risk, being exposed for less time than any other method.

Quote

Here's my answer strategy, Get a better pilot.

Obviously not, and again, that's a pretty useless response. The answering strategy as was as developed: poptart more.

Quote

It was in all previous MechWarrior titles. It wasn't even a ******* complaint then. You heard more about folks getting legged.

They were all different games, with different mechanics. I have absolutely zero objection to the concept of poptarting, and hell I don't think it'd be as significant now as it was given the breaking of PPC's. But at that time, allowing players to drop converged 30pt alphas with minimal effort and minimal risk, while being no more vulnerable up close (that is, a brawler wasn't better equipped to engage in close combat; closing with a poptart didn't hurt him at all).

Quote

I equate the POPTART whiner to the LRM whiner, the guy who can't figure out how to take cover.

No. The difference is, if you leave cover, the poptart team hits you, while not being in nearly as much danger themselves. This isn't a one vs. one game. A team poptarting is totally immune to LRM's, and to engage them with direct fire means exposing yourself longer than they are exposed while being able to do no more damage - you're using the same weapons, after all, but you have to slowly trundle out of cover then back in, while the poptart is exposed for a fraction of the time.

The problem with the Poptart Days in MWO was that it was the best way to play. Not the only way, and if you were simply better than your opponent, that could well trump it. However, given teams of relatively equal skill, poptarting was absolutely the way to go. It was simply the best strategy.

Quote

I invite you folks to look over an old poptart thread back in the day when it was ruthless http://mwomercs.com/...96663-poptarts/

There was like one whiner on it calling for nerf. Poptarts are a danger to pugs (noobs more accurately).

I still agree with them. If Poptarts are a problem for someone, then they don't know what the fk they're doing.

If you read back in the history poptarts are pretty much a issue as LRMS, real **** hits the fan when the highlander comes out. Everyone at that point rides a highlander. It was a new mech, it was an assault. So you had these highlander n' 3D's. And they pop tart really well.

I clearly remember those days - I've been here all along as well, and I absolutely poptarted the **** out of my Highlanders (and other mechs too). I wasn't crying because the poptarts touched me in a bad place. My issue was poptarting was by such a large margin the dominant strategy at everything from "Random Experienced Folks" to "Very High End" play. LRM's are not, and haven't been dominant other than a couple LRM apocolypses when they've been utterly undeniably broken like the awesome time after Tourmaline's release when they where falling down almost vertically and cockpitting everyone left and right. Hell, you rarely see LRM's in any kind of serious play whatsoever, and it's been that way for a VERY long time.

In short, there is absolutely zero relation between The Poptart Days and random LRM whine threads.

---

All that said, the problem was never the strategy of poptarting(which should be another tool in the box), just how it intersected with everything else to become a completely dominate strategy. Having a Summoner being capable of poptarting (but otherwise being a Summoner still, so otherwise still sucking) is hardly a problem. It makes the Summoner interesting instead of just being depressingly lackluster.

[F4T 4L]

Bishop Steiner, on 21 December 2014 - 09:41 AM, said:

So recently, a few Clan Mechs were given preliminary quirk passes (Nova, Mist Lynx and Summoner, I believe), but I had not really had time to test them and see.

Since the Summoner has always been my favorite Clan Omni, both in TT and previous MW titles, I decided it was time to revisit it and see where it stood.

I decided that for the Holiday Event, I was going to run my bone stock Summoner Prime almost exclusively a control group (on my clan acct..... my IS one I'm still running all Mediums, all the time.). As a jump happy Medium Mech guy, I feel I probably have the right playstyle to maximize the Summoner, as I don't try to tank and take over matches, like TW and Assault pilots will want to do, but use the mobility and good heat management to constantly harass and probe and exploit over eager bad guys.

So the Mech is:
SMN-PRIME
and it's quirks:

Spoiler

SMN-PRIME LEFT ARM
BALLISTIC COOLDOWN: 10.00 %
SMN-PRIME LEFT TORSO
TORSO TURN ANGLE (YAW): 5.00
SMN-PRIME CENTER TORSO
ACCELERATION RATE (LOW SPEED): 25.00 %
ACCELERATION RATE (MED SPEED): 25.00 %
ACCELERATION RATE (HIGH SPEED): 25.00 %
DECELERATION RATE (LOW SPEED): 25.00 %
DECELERATION RATE (MED SPEED): 25.00 %
DECELERATION RATE (HIGH SPEED): 25.00 % SPEED: 5.00 %
SMN-PRIME RIGHT TORSO
TORSO TURN ANGLE (YAW): 5.00
SMN-PRIME RIGHT ARM
ENERGY COOLDOWN: 10.00 %

Torso Yaw 120º
Arm Yaw 20°
Torso Pitch 20°
Arm Pitch 30°
Twist Speed 57°/s
Torso Yaw Speed 100°/s
Arm Yaw Speed 225°/s
Torso Pitch Speed 56°/s
Arm Pitch Speed 225°/s

All skills are mastered, with Lvl 5 Modules for the C-LB-10X and C-ER PPC, giving each a respective 27% faster cooldown.

I've run 30 plus matches so far, all PUG based. Will Update as I get more matches.

Damage was mediocre for a heavy, as expected, hovering between 4-500 most matches, and averaging 2 kills. Considering the weapons profile and laughable ammo loadout, not horrible, IMO.

​Most surprising, was the survivability. Stock it's only running 83% of maximum armor, and it's not "optimized" in locations. Yet I only died, on average every 3rd match. The biggest area of constant damage was the legs.

Biggest knock, is even with it's speed and agility buffs, it's still just not feeling quite "there". For one thing, if you run any Ballistics beside machine guns, or PPCs in the arms, you lose your arm yaw, leaving you with you 120% twist range. This sounds pretty good, but IMO the twist speed doesn't feel quite fast enough.

General Impression: Improved, but still a Tier 3 Mech. Might it be better with a "Meta" Build? Some, but marginal. It still would not make tier 2 (I run the Metas when dropping CGBI. And while individual warrior do well in them, there is a reason its the least represented Clan Heavy).

Recommendations?
(These are merely a list of possible, not exhaustive, nor meant to be all done together)

- The most popular suggestion is to either Unlock the JJs, or Allow it to mount Endo Steel.

Spoiler

And I admit, while never having a desire to strip the Summoner of one of its defining features (it's JJs), I certainly cannot deny that an extra 3.5 tons would not have worked wonders for the payload.

I find I must be leary of doing much in either department though. Stripping JJs will still just leave you a poor man's TW-S, while improving the JJs boost or recharge risks reigniting the poptart Meta. Allowing Endo steel here will inevitably start the avalanche of people wanting it done on ALL locked chassis, tossing yet another ot the "balance pillars" PGI set between Battlemechs and OmniMechs out the window.

- Increase the leg Internal Structure/Armor.

Spoiler

This is one of the most glaring, and easiest fixes, and very much in line with existing quirks on many chassis. Nothing balance threatening or game breaking here.

- Give the Energy Pods Reduced Heat Generation.

Spoiler

In lore, one of the many aspects of the Summoners success, was it was a cool running mech in all configurations. Well, anyone who has tried to build around the 2 Energy point arms, knows the Summoner is not cool running. And surprising to me, was just how quickly the stock version heated up with a single ER PPC, especially once the Cooldown Module was added. The Mech simply cannot boat energy weapons, so unlike the WubVomit or 3x ER PPC Thunderbolts, there is little chance of this getting abused.

- Not enough Hardpoints. Inflate a few carefully selected Pods, or add new omni pods.

Spoiler

Another one with some potential to go south. But simple truth is, the Summoner has neither the tonnage for truly big gun, nor hardpoints for lots of smaller guns. It's stuck in a truly tough spot. But I can't tell you how often simply having 1-2 more missile hardpoints in the LT would have made a world of difference in the effectiveness of the mech. But being able to pack a pair of SRM6s in the LT, a quad of ER Mlasers in the Arms and a UAC5 or LB-10X in the RT would make it much more effective an ambush hunter.

- Mobility is it's hallmark, so give it faster Twist Speed and or Allow it to maintain lower arm actuators with PPCs and Ballistics.

Spoiler

The ability to actually use it's twist yaw and arm yaw to the full would also really help the mech for those used to a more mobile fighting style.

Thoughts, Opinions, Insights and Recommendations?

(Btw, even with limited ammo, the stock Summoner IS real fun to play, but certainly not competitive)

*** EDIT Well, at 60 matches, my rate of dying has not increased dramatically, but I ran through a stretch where I was getting no kills, 4-500 damage, and a ton of assists, just not sealing the deal. That said, I still seem to get more matches with a kill than not, and definitely not dying all that often, even with low armor.

Overall, I must say the Summoners fragility seems a myth. Yes, if I get focused, it can go bad fast..... but that is true with pretty much anything beside a Firestarter.

EDIT....since these two topics are irrevocably linked: http://mwomercs.com/...-or-storm-crow/

*** Preliminary Suggestions:

Unlock Endo for Omnis that don't have it (but with locked predetermined crits)



and for the Prime:

- 20% Cooldown on Ballistics (Whole chassis)

- 20% Cooldown on LB-10X (LA only)

- 15% Heat Reduction on Energy (Chassis)

- 15% Heat Reduction on C-ERPPC (RA only)

- 25% Projectile Speed boost (Chassis) or a Cooldown on the PPC (RA)



Summoner Bravo:

- 25% Projectile Speed Missiles (Chassis)

- 20% Cooldown Missiles (Chassis)

- 20% Cooldown LRM20s (Arms)

- 15% Range Missiles (Chassis)

- 30% Target Lock Speed Missiles (Chassis)





Summoner Delta:

- 20% Heat Reduction Energy (Chassis)

- 20% Heat Reduction ER Large Lasers (RA/LA)

- 20% Heat Reduction ER Mlasers (RA/LA)

- -40% beam duration All Lasers (Chassis)

- 20% Cool Down Energy (chassis)





Note that I listed the "generic" quirks as tied to the chassis, but the specific weapon quirks tot eh pods that come with them.

IMO; Clan MEchs basic quirks should be by the variant, but any swapped pods LOSE their special quirks, so that one can take the LB-X pod from the Prime and put it on a Delta, but it only gets whatever base chassis bonuses the Delta gets with that weapon, then.

You sure are salty these days, dude.

[Bishop Steiner]

F4T 4L, on 03 March 2015 - 05:23 PM, said:

You sure are salty these days, dude.

as in flavor enhancing?

Not sure what is "salty" about that OP. It's all rather objective.

[F4T 4L]

Bishop Steiner, on 03 March 2015 - 05:42 PM, said:

as in flavor enhancing?

Not sure what is "salty" about that OP. It's all rather objective.

Which "it" is objective? Do you mean subjective?

Certainly your recent threads (urbie sucks, enforcer sucks), are entirely subjective.

Sorry if I offend, but you're keen to point out when folks here are behaving as if the game owes them, yet here we are.

[Bishop Steiner]

F4T 4L, on 03 March 2015 - 06:05 PM, said:

Which "it" is objective? Do you mean subjective?

Certainly your recent threads (urbie sucks, enforcer sucks), are entirely subjective.

Sorry if I offend, but you're keen to point out when folks here are behaving as if the game owes them, yet here we are.

Wow. Make like...2000 posts supporting PGI in numerous ways, especially through the crapstorm of 2013, and because I dare make some that ain't all sunhine......, you flip out.

OK.

Yup. I'm salty. Like the sea. Got me dead to rights.


*SMH*.

Dude. It's called constructive criticism. Real supporters? Give positive and negative feedback and suggestions.

Edited by Bishop Steiner, 03 March 2015 - 07:51 PM.