1236 replies to this topic

[Deathlike]

Ultimatum X, on 06 February 2015 - 04:50 PM, said:

We've been down that road before, and all it got us are several relatively dead mechs that no one played and still haven't really recovered their place once the rest of the IS mechs got their quirks.


Let's wait until clan quirks instead of the daily nerf calling for mechs that through simple original design ended up good in MWO.

Personally, scaling should be on the table. If it screws over those that use camo, just refund the people that complain (and possibly remove it as an option just as well) until the scaling is done right and then camos can be implemented under the adjusted mech.

However, we'll never have nice things.

[Bishop Steiner]

Deathlike, on 06 February 2015 - 04:59 PM, said:

Personally, scaling should be on the table. If it screws over those that use camo, just refund the people that complain (and possibly remove it as an option just as well) until the scaling is done right and then camos can be implemented under the adjusted mech.

However, we'll never have nice things.

sure, scaling would be nice, but let's try to keep things on the realistically feasible changes, and maybe we can actually get something accomplished?

[Vassago Rain]

Bishop Steiner, on 07 February 2015 - 06:18 PM, said:

sure, scaling would be nice, but let's try to keep things on the realistically feasible changes, and maybe we can actually get something accomplished?

Why didn't they scale mechs properly to begin with?

[Bishop Steiner]

Vassago Rain, on 07 February 2015 - 06:24 PM, said:

Why didn't they scale mechs properly to begin with?

don't know, but the point is it's likely not going to change. So spending time whinging about it might appeal to Reddit nation, but I prefer to be more constructive.

[Vassago Rain]

Bishop Steiner, on 07 February 2015 - 06:46 PM, said:

don't know, but the point is it's likely not going to change. So spending time whinging about it might appeal to Reddit nation, but I prefer to be more constructive.

Then why can't they make sure all the new mechs don't suffer giant medium syndrome? Is there a factory out there somewhere that produces these mishapen robots, and one of PGI's bosses is their most valued customer?

[Anakha]

Wonder how many posts we need to get this thread up to before someone at PGI will comment on it and let us know what they are going to do to make the Summoner more competitive with the other clan heavies.

[Bishop Steiner]

Anakha, on 08 February 2015 - 10:55 PM, said:

Wonder how many posts we need to get this thread up to before someone at PGI will comment on it and let us know what they are going to do to make the Summoner more competitive with the other clan heavies.

more that 787, apparently.

Edited by Bishop Steiner, 09 February 2015 - 08:50 AM.

[LordKnightFandragon]

Anakha, on 08 February 2015 - 10:55 PM, said:

Wonder how many posts we need to get this thread up to before someone at PGI will comment on it and let us know what they are going to do to make the Summoner more competitive with the other clan heavies.

Infinitely more, PGI still thinks Clans are OP. Soo, despite it being mostly 2 or 3 Clan mechs, they are all OP, and so none will see any buffs or quirks. therefore, the same "op" clan mechs will continue to be played, and the stats will keep saying Clan mechs OP, and the subpar clan mechs will see no buffs and the circle will continue forever.

[Anakha]

Another patch and still no help for the Summoner hope Russ addresses this on his roundtable tomorrow I was expecting at least some quirks if they aren't going to fix the JJ and endo steel and hardpoint issues effecting the Summoner. But PGI refuses to do anything still for some reason.

[InspectorG]

LordKnightFandragon, on 09 February 2015 - 08:49 AM, said:

Infinitely more, PGI still thinks Clans are OP. Soo, despite it being mostly 2 or 3 Clan mechs, they are all OP, and so none will see any buffs or quirks. therefore, the same "op" clan mechs will continue to be played, and the stats will keep saying Clan mechs OP, and the subpar clan mechs will see no buffs and the circle will continue forever.

Clan engines and DHS are op...

not the b-team mechs.

edited for clarity and all that

Edited by InspectorG, 18 February 2015 - 05:36 PM.

[Golden Vulf]

FupDup, on 21 December 2014 - 09:52 AM, said:

The problem with unlocking the "core" of an Omni means that people will inevitably ask for the logic to carry over to other Omnimechs.

I don't think you want to see what kind of things I could do with a Hellbringer that has Endo Steel. I would do horrible, unspeakable things...

It is not a problem at all. All the "OP" mechs already have endo steel.

And adding 3 heatsinks to the Hellbringer is not an unspeakable horror. It can already dual mount gauss if you drop armor. all of a sudden you can dual mount gauss while dropping slightly less armor.

Edited by Golden Vulf, 18 February 2015 - 06:08 PM.

[FupDup]

Golden Vulf, on 18 February 2015 - 06:08 PM, said:

It is not a problem at all. All the "OP" mechs already have endo steel.

And adding 3 heatsinks to the Hellbringer is not an unspeakable horror. It can already dual mount gauss if you drop armor. all of a sudden you can dual mount gauss while dropping slightly less armor.

Dropping armor has its own associated disadvantages...

Anyways, the only one I think might be made "too good" by Endo + FF would be the Loki, because even now it's almost as good as the Mad Cat. The others like the Gargles probably wouldn't become uber overnight, it's just that I'm super sad that this game's state requires nearly every mech to have Endo (for Clans, you also usually need FF on top of that) to be considered effective.

[Golden Vulf]

I really hope they don't expect people to shell out 120 bucks to get another garbage tier clan mech like the Executioner.

95 ton mech, 24.5 tons of pod space.

It really puts the 20.5 tons the Summoner has to shame!

They know we want the Kodiak. They could even lock the engine. People claim it doesn't have enough in-timeline variants, what about the King Crab? Is everyone a member of the ComGuards on Tukayid?

[FupDup]

Golden Vulf, on 18 February 2015 - 06:15 PM, said:

I really hope they don't expect people to shell out 120 bucks to get another garbage tier clan mech like the Executioner.

95 ton mech, 24.5 tons of pod space.

It really puts the 20.5 tons the Summoner has to shame!

They know we want the Kodiak. They could even lock the engine. People claim it doesn't have enough in-timeline variants, what about the King Crab? Is everyone a member of the ComGuards on Tukayid?

Well, at least the Gladbag will beat the Gargles. Maybe the Whawk, too. Probably won't beat the Whale.

Some variants actually have nice hardpoints, hopefully they get selected...

[LordKnightFandragon]

Golden Vulf, on 18 February 2015 - 06:15 PM, said:

I really hope they don't expect people to shell out 120 bucks to get another garbage tier clan mech like the Executioner.

95 ton mech, 24.5 tons of pod space.

It really puts the 20.5 tons the Summoner has to shame!

They know we want the Kodiak. They could even lock the engine. People claim it doesn't have enough in-timeline variants, what about the King Crab? Is everyone a member of the ComGuards on Tukayid?

Yeah, really....

Its not like this game is sticking to TT or lore...PGI could just slap random Hardpoints on 2 other Kodiaks and call it good.....

Treat Clan BM just like current Clan omnis in terms of contruction limits....

[Golden Vulf]

FupDup, on 18 February 2015 - 06:11 PM, said:

...might be made "too good" by Endo + FF would be the Loki...

Right now the Hellbringer has 23.5 tons of pod space. With Endo Steel and Feros Fibrous armor, that goes up to 28.5.

28.5 is the exact same pod space a Hellbringer with the stock amount of armor has.

A Timberwolf has 27.5 ton of pod space, but it has 2 more heatsinks in the engine and 1 more ton of armor (38 points) Hellbringer trying to reach same cooling as Timberwolf has 4 fewer crit spaces, drops to 26.5 pod space, and is still 1 ton of armor lighter, before adding ECM.
If you still think it to be too much value for a 10 ton difference, then you have to start looking at hit boxes.

When I'm calling Executioner trash-tier, it's with a mind for a CW drop deck. Stealing 95 tons of the drop deck for 25~ ish tons of pod space is probably one of the worst things you could do.
If it has a place it will be in Solo drops where you don't have to worry about taking an Assault slot from another person.

The Warhawk is 10 tons lighter but can be much more impressive if you make use of those 20 double heatsinks you can't remove. The only way to improve the Warhawk besides unlocking heatsinks, would be to exchange FF armor for Endo steel, gaining 1 extra ton of pod space, and giving some extra energy hard points to the empty prime right torso.

LordKnightFandragon, on 18 February 2015 - 06:22 PM, said:

Yeah, really....

Its not like this game is sticking to TT or lore...PGI could just slap random Hardpoints on 2 other Kodiaks and call it good.....

Treat Clan BM just like current Clan omnis in terms of contruction limits....

Which is fine for the Kodiak. It already has Endo Steel and double heatsinks. Though I would say for clan battlemechs, don't lock the heatsinks in the engine. It can't dual gauss unless they inflate the hard points, or have the dual ballistic variant. But exploding gauss cannon in your side torsos has it's own problems.

One version of the Kodiak even has jump jets. Kodiaks were made in the year 3001, well before the Clan Invasion. The Kodiak variant 2 has jump jets too. I think it showed up in 3062.

So we could have:
Kodiak Prime
Kodiak with fewer weapons but jump jets
Dual AC20 Kodiak.

Meanwhile the King Crab 000B was in technical readout 3075.

Edited by Golden Vulf, 18 February 2015 - 07:08 PM.

[LordKnightFandragon]

Golden Vulf, on 18 February 2015 - 06:34 PM, said:

Right now the Hellbringer has 23.5 tons of pod space. With Endo Steel and Feros Fibrous armor, that goes up to 28.5.

28.5 is the exact same pod space a Hellbringer with the stock amount of armor has.

A Timberwolf has 27.5 ton of pod space, but it has 2 more heatsinks in the engine and 1 more ton of armor (38 points) Hellbringer trying to reach same cooling as Timberwolf has 4 fewer crit spaces, drops to 26.5 pod space, and is still 1 ton of armor lighter, before adding ECM.
If you still think it to be too much value for a 10 ton difference, then you have to start looking at hit boxes.

When I'm calling Executioner trash-tier, it's with a mind for a CW drop deck. Stealing 95 tons of the drop deck for 25~ ish tons of pod space is probably one of the worst things you could do.
If it has a place it will be in Solo drops where you don't have to worry about taking an Assault slot from another person.

The Warhawk is 10 tons lighter but can be much more impressive if you make use of those 20 double heatsinks you can't remove. The only way to improve the Warhawk besides unlocking heatsinks, would be to exchange FF armor for Endo steel, gaining 1 extra ton of pod space, and giving some extra energy hard points to the empty prime right torso.




Which is fine for the Kodiak. It already has Endo Steel and double heatsinks. Though I would say for clan battlemechs, don't lock the heatsinks in the engine. It can't dual gauss unless they inflate the hard points, or have the dual ballistic variant. But exploding gauss cannon in your side torsos has it's own problems.

One version of the Kodiak even has jump jets. Kodiaks were made in the year 3001, well before the Clan Invasion. The Kodiak variant 2 has jump jets too. I think it showed up in 3062.

So we could have:
Kodiak Prime
Kodiak with fewer weapons but jump jets
Dual AC20 Kodiak.

Meanwhile the King Crab 000B was in technical readout 3075.

Kodiak needs no inflated hardpoints, in fact, no mech in this game needed inflated hardpoints, its part of why we have so much PPFLD meta in the first place......What? people were not content having to shoot mechs for more then 2 seconds?

I find progression like MWO funny.

1st, they go with TT values, find TTK is to fast. To they double armor, cool....then htey inflate hardpoints so people can add more guns, and ultimately, all the other changes, have basically nullified the entire point of giving us double armor in the 1st place.

Double armor, 100 point heat scale, inflated hardpoints.....

A Kodiak has

Arms: 8E, 2M
Torsos: 1B, 1M, 1E(it has a CT gun right?)

If someone cannot make a working build out of that, then they need more help then any number of guns will give them.

We also need the Stone Rhino, that mech is lacking for hardpoints and I dont feel it needs anymore....in fact, its going to be the go to Gauss/PPC mech....

Its stock load is 2LPL, 2GR, 1SL...

I personally would drop the SL and add in more armor or something....

[Mirumoto Izanami]

Vassago Rain, on 07 February 2015 - 06:24 PM, said:

Why didn't they scale mechs properly to begin with?

Are the mechs that off scaled?

Judging by this: http://i.imgur.com/JbJ13m8.jpg
Some of the light mechs are way smaller than they should be, at least clan side. I mean, according to this, the Myst Lynx is less than two meters shorter than a Warhawk? Or are the sizes on this chart just way off?

[FupDup]

LordKnightFandragon, on 18 February 2015 - 07:58 PM, said:

...in fact, no mech in this game needed inflated hardpoints, its part of why we have so much PPFLD meta in the first place......What? people were not content having to shoot mechs for more then 2 seconds?

....

If we didn't have inflated hardpoints, a Banshee would only have 3 hardpoints.

That would kill it completely, unless you wanted to only do AC/20 and 2 PPCs/LPL/ERLL all day.


There's also the honorable mention of the Shadow Hawk 2K, with only 2 weapons stock.

Edited by FupDup, 18 February 2015 - 08:08 PM.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Golden Vulf, on 18 February 2015 - 06:34 PM, said:

Right now the Hellbringer has 23.5 tons of pod space. With Endo Steel and Feros Fibrous armor, that goes up to 28.5.

28.5 is the exact same pod space a Hellbringer with the stock amount of armor has.

A Timberwolf has 27.5 ton of pod space, but it has 2 more heatsinks in the engine and 1 more ton of armor (38 points) Hellbringer trying to reach same cooling as Timberwolf has 4 fewer crit spaces, drops to 26.5 pod space, and is still 1 ton of armor lighter, before adding ECM.
If you still think it to be too much value for a 10 ton difference, then you have to start looking at hit boxes.

When I'm calling Executioner trash-tier, it's with a mind for a CW drop deck. Stealing 95 tons of the drop deck for 25~ ish tons of pod space is probably one of the worst things you could do.
If it has a place it will be in Solo drops where you don't have to worry about taking an Assault slot from another person.

The Warhawk is 10 tons lighter but can be much more impressive if you make use of those 20 double heatsinks you can't remove. The only way to improve the Warhawk besides unlocking heatsinks, would be to exchange FF armor for Endo steel, gaining 1 extra ton of pod space, and giving some extra energy hard points to the empty prime right torso.




Which is fine for the Kodiak. It already has Endo Steel and double heatsinks. Though I would say for clan battlemechs, don't lock the heatsinks in the engine. It can't dual gauss unless they inflate the hard points, or have the dual ballistic variant. But exploding gauss cannon in your side torsos has it's own problems.

One version of the Kodiak even has jump jets. Kodiaks were made in the year 3001, well before the Clan Invasion. The Kodiak variant 2 has jump jets too. I think it showed up in 3062.

So we could have:
Kodiak Prime
Kodiak with fewer weapons but jump jets
Dual AC20 Kodiak.

If the engine and DHS are locked, the Kodiak becomes a 15 ton heavier Warhawk, with maxed armor they have the same free tonnage.

Edited by WM Quicksilver, 18 February 2015 - 08:13 PM.