1236 replies to this topic

[Khobai]

Quote

Unlocking Endo and Ferro would make the Hellbringer scary as mother nature

Unlocking Endo and Ferro would be a mistake.

However mechs without endo and ferro should get additional quirks (+1 quirk for each one they dont have)

So for example: the Madcat-S should get -3 quirks for having endo, ferro, AND jumpjets. While the Hellbringer should get +1 quirk (+2 for not having either endo or ferro and -1 for having ECM)

[FupDup]

Khobai, on 18 February 2015 - 08:16 PM, said:

Unlocking Endo and Ferro would be a mistake.

However mechs without endo and ferro should get additional quirks (+1 quirk for each one they dont have)

So for example: the Madcat-S should get -3 quirks for having endo, ferro, AND jumpjets. While the Hellbringer should get +1 quirk (+2 for not having either endo or ferro and -1 for having ECM)

That would result in -3 quirks to the Kit Fox.

[Zordicron]

FupDup, on 18 February 2015 - 08:33 PM, said:

That would result in -3 quirks to the Kit Fox.

Triple AMS OP, Cutefox doesnt need quirks anyway, and should probably be nerfed. Just tonight I AMS'd an Atlas so hard I got the guillotine achievement twice.

[LordKnightFandragon]

WM Quicksilver, on 18 February 2015 - 08:12 PM, said:

If the engine and DHS are locked, the Kodiak becomes a 15 ton heavier Warhawk, with maxed armor they have the same free tonnage.

Except the Kodiak has no shortage of hardpoints. 8E 2M just in the arms....

all the warhawks variant pods together dont equal that.....

[kapusta11]

FupDup, on 18 February 2015 - 08:33 PM, said:

That would result in -3 quirks to the Kit Fox.

It appears forethought is a lostech.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

LordKnightFandragon, on 18 February 2015 - 09:05 PM, said:

Except the Kodiak has no shortage of hardpoints. 8E 2M just in the arms....

all the warhawks variant pods together dont equal that.....

The Kodiak doesn't have 2M in the arms, you are thinking from MW4 which was a non-canon variant (which means no JJs as well).
If you think you are going to be use all 8E hardpoints, I think you forget just how hot the Dire Whales laser vomit config is. Not to mention if you want Gauss, you have to put it in the torso. You may also forget the Kodiak is built like an Atlas (though the torso points are high), not like a King Crab, more of you to shoot before you peek.

[Deathlike]

WM Quicksilver, on 19 February 2015 - 08:18 AM, said:

The Kodiak doesn't have 2M in the arms, you are thinking from MW4 which was a non-canon variant (which means no JJs as well).
If you think you are going to be use all 8E hardpoints, I think you forget just how hot the Dire Whales laser vomit config is. Not to mention if you want Gauss, you have to put it in the torso. You may also forget the Kodiak is built like an Atlas (though the torso points are high), not like a King Crab, more of you to shoot before you peek.

All I remember was this in MW2:GB/Mercs:

http://www.solaris7....nfo.asp?ID=3559

Laservomit, excite!

[Khobai]

Quote

That would result in -3 quirks to the Kit Fox

If you have JJ, ECM, and triple AMS you should get -3 quirks. I see nothing wrong with that.

The only thing thats wrong with the Kit Fox is that it cant take a bigger engine. Thats what should be fixed.

[LordKnightFandragon]

WM Quicksilver, on 19 February 2015 - 08:18 AM, said:

The Kodiak doesn't have 2M in the arms, you are thinking from MW4 which was a non-canon variant (which means no JJs as well).
If you think you are going to be use all 8E hardpoints, I think you forget just how hot the Dire Whales laser vomit config is. Not to mention if you want Gauss, you have to put it in the torso. You may also forget the Kodiak is built like an Atlas (though the torso points are high), not like a King Crab, more of you to shoot before you peek.

In MW4 I used all 8 Energy points and, despite having about 50% heat efficiency(ofc, I was using unlimited ammo), I did just fine. I learned and know the art of heat management. I dont FIRE EVERYTHING!!!!!! I fired Left arm, AC20, LRMs, waited, right arm, AC20, waited, AC20, waited, AC20 waited, and yeah, paced my shots, controlled my heat and pretty much did just fine. Almost never was it fire 8ML, 3 LRM15s and my AC20 all together....cuz thats just stupid...I also didnt fire all my lasers in 1 group, I think I actually had the 8 MLs in like 4 different fire groups, paired in 2s. I had a 6 button joystick, so 2/2/2/2 ML, AC20 was 5, LRMs were 6.

And 8E 2M, combined, so...4E1M/4E1M

And if I made a DWF in this game, it would use the laser vomit config.

8ML, 2 AC10 in the arms, SRM in the ST and done. Like 24% heat eff, but its not unlike my WHK who has 1.22(22%). Only thing holding that build back is MWO's fire everything meta mentality....if this game was about heat management and pacing shots, that build would wreck face. 4ML from each arm, thats like 28 some damage just in 1 arm, 38 if I include my AC10, I could then wait a second, and fire the 48 out of my other arm......by then my other side is back up and fire it again, by that time im to hot to keep firing. And if it truly came down to it, chain firing.

Edited by LordKnightFandragon, 19 February 2015 - 10:04 AM.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

LordKnightFandragon, on 19 February 2015 - 10:00 AM, said:

In MW4 I used all 8 Energy points and, despite having about 50% heat efficiency(ofc, I was using unlimited ammo), I did just fine. I learned and know the art of heat management. I dont FIRE EVERYTHING!!!!!! I fired Left arm, AC20, LRMs, waited, right arm, AC20, waited, AC20, waited, AC20 waited, and yeah, paced my shots, controlled my heat and pretty much did just fine. Almost never was it fire 8ML, 3 LRM15s and my AC20 all together....cuz thats just stupid...I also didnt fire all my lasers in 1 group, I think I actually had the 8 MLs in like 4 different fire groups, paired in 2s. I had a 6 button joystick, so 2/2/2/2 ML, AC20 was 5, LRMs were 6.

And 8E 2M, combined, so...4E1M/4E1M

And if I made a DWF in this game, it would use the laser vomit config.

8ML, 2 AC10 in the arms, SRM in the ST and done. Like 24% heat eff, but its not unlike my WHK who has 1.22(22%). Only thing holding that build back is MWO's fire everything meta mentality....if this game was about heat management and pacing shots, that build would wreck face. 4ML from each arm, thats like 28 some damage just in 1 arm, 38 if I include my AC10, I could then wait a second, and fire the 48 out of my other arm......by then my other side is back up and fire it again, by that time im to hot to keep firing. And if it truly came down to it, chain firing.

The MW4 Kodiak may have had missiles in the arms, but the canon Kodiak (at least the first variant) does not, it only has ERML. Check out Deathlike's record sheet link, missiles and ballistics are relegated to the torso (like and Atlas).
There are only 3 top tier clan weapons at the moment, ERML, LPL, and Gauss. If it can't use a mixture of that any better than the Warhawk then it will be in a similar tier, and considering it requires Gauss to be in the torso, chances are good it would be forced to use pure laservomit, and would probably be forced to run pretty much the Wubhawk build because otherwise you run out of space before you run out of tonnage.

So essentially, the Kodiak is the Clan's version of the Boar's Head and while has the benefit of Clan tech, is still not the greatest.

Edited by WM Quicksilver, 19 February 2015 - 01:56 PM.

[Anakha]

Speaking of inflated hard points I think the Summoner should have at least 2 missile hard points in the Left Torso. I can put an LRM 20 in it but I can't put in 2 SRM6 because of how PGI does hard points and only giving it 1. I think the solution for that would be to give all the summoners 2 LT Missile hard points on the omnipods that have missiles located there.

[Bishop Steiner]

Anakha, on 19 February 2015 - 02:02 PM, said:

Speaking of inflated hard points I think the Summoner should have at least 2 missile hard points in the Left Torso. I can put an LRM 20 in it but I can't put in 2 SRM6 because of how PGI does hard points and only giving it 1. I think the solution for that would be to give all the summoners 2 LT Missile hard points on the omnipods that have missiles located there.

I think there need be like a set ratio for hardpoints. PPCs and heavy AC/Gauss count as 2 hardpoints, L.Lasers, Mlasers, etc, get you one. SRM6, LRM15/20 count as 2, etc.

Like anything else, you would have to give adjustments to some mechs (like the Direwolf) but on the whole it would, I think, make a good baseline.

Still needs Endo, though.

[Khobai]

Quote

Still needs Endo, though.

different mechs are different.

i see no problem with the summoner not having endo. i do however see a problem with the summoner not getting compensation for not having endo.

which is why I think clan mechs without endo/ferro should get an extra quirk for each one they dont have.

[Bishop Steiner]

Khobai, on 19 February 2015 - 02:39 PM, said:

different mechs are different.

i see no problem with the summoner not having endo. i do however see a problem with the summoner not getting compensation for not having endo.

which is why I think clan mechs without endo/ferro should get an extra quirk for each one they dont have.

I'm happy for you. Quirks won't fix what doubled armor has broken. Nor address the underlying issues with attempting to actually balance Clan MEchs as a whole.

Edited by Bishop Steiner, 19 February 2015 - 02:52 PM.

[Khobai]

Quote

I'm happy for you. Quirks won't fix what doubled armor has broken.

So go back to playing farmville if you dont like it.

This game is never going to be the way you want it to be. The changes you want are entirely unreasonable.

Meanwhile I will be focusing on the simple and reasonable things PGI can do to improve the game.

[RedDevil]

Why do we have two identical threads going on here about the Summoner?

[Bishop Steiner]

Khobai, on 19 February 2015 - 02:54 PM, said:

So go back to playing farmville if you dont like it.

This game is never going to be the way you want it to be. The changes you want are entirely unreasonable.

Meanwhile I will be focusing on the simple and reasonable things PGI can do to improve the game.

Then actually come up with a "fix" that doesn't break more things, and start seeing the forest, instead of just the tree in front of your face.

[BARBAR0SSA]

Khobai, on 19 February 2015 - 10:00 AM, said:

If you have JJ, ECM, and triple AMS you should get -3 quirks. I see nothing wrong with that.

The only thing thats wrong with the Kit Fox is that it cant take a bigger engine. Thats what should be fixed.

Why the hell are JJs and AMS this massive advantage in CW, if that was the case you'd see more shadowhawks, summoners etc.

Kitfox is a tonnage filler for drop deck.

[LordKnightFandragon]

reddevil, on 19 February 2015 - 02:55 PM, said:

Why do we have two identical threads going on here about the Summoner?

Someone else didnt know how to look through the forum first?

[Bishop Steiner]

reddevil, on 19 February 2015 - 02:55 PM, said:

Why do we have two identical threads going on here about the Summoner?

ask the other guy. You might notice mine has been around a little while, lol.