1236 replies to this topic

[KraftySOT]

Bishop Steiner, on 05 March 2015 - 11:38 AM, said:

nothing makes me sadder than people wanting to pull JJs off the Summoner. Run a Gargoyle, lol!

I bet they pull the wings off flies, too.

PGI was tired of the Fly meta game, so they nerfed the wings.

[VtTimber]

I'll keep saying it... Lock max # of JJ's to their mechs and then make JJ's a helluva lot better. Tradeoff of less tonnage/crit space for weapons/armor/engines(IS) but gain much mobility. More tradeoffs- make weapons lose all convergence the whole way up and down (includes falling from cliffs/buildings as well). If you hit something you got lucky.

JJ's were made to boost mobility and allow tactics not thought of... Aiden Pryde on Tukayyid, flanking the IS through the river.. only possible with JJ's, not hover jets.

[Anakha]

I want endo unlocked for the summoner more than anything. It is definitely unfair to the chassis that every single IS mech in the game can upgrade to endo. Then only clan mechs that had it standard get it? That makes no sense to me what so ever. Because some guy 20 years ago decided it should have it for a table top game? Come on thats crazy. Unlock it for every chassis if we want it that is only fair.

Then there is the whole locked JJ's for clan mechs, well except for the timber wolf of course because you can just switch out an omnipod and get rid of some there. That makes complete sense. Like a mech could jump with just 2 JJ's in its left torso. Ya thats realistic. But its the timber wolf so its OK! Right!

Time for PGI to step up and balance these mechs. Taking way to long for sure.

[Ultimax]

Kain Thul, on 05 March 2015 - 11:10 AM, said:

My current SMN-PRIME build:

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...fde194027b84525

With 3.5t armor removed to simulate ES:

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...97f9558f2ada321

Nothing earth shattering but I would appreciate the added "oomph" for when you rush in and finish a weakened opponent or get the opportunity to back someone.

I run the same build basically on my SMN-Prime, which is superior to any version I could run on my CTF-3D.


Instead it just ends up slower, with less JJs, less heatsinks and a vulnerable XL engine.


The point of this comparison, is that you can't even get that much firepower on most IS heavies, and we are lamenting the fact we can't also stuff more weapons onto the "tonnage starved" Summoner, that moves at 93kph with some of the most amazing agility of any Heavy mech in the game (and also beats some higher ton mediums as well).

[Bishop Steiner]

Ultimatum X, on 05 March 2015 - 02:42 PM, said:

I run the same build basically on my SMN-Prime, which is superior to any version I could run on my CTF-3D.


Instead it just ends up slower, with less JJs, less heatsinks and a vulnerable XL engine.


The point of this comparison, is that you can't even get that much firepower on most IS heavies, and we are lamenting the fact we can't also stuff more weapons onto the "tonnage starved" Summoner, that moves at 93kph with some of the most amazing agility of any Heavy mech in the game (and also beats some higher ton mediums as well).

almost makes as much sense at crying over super overquirked Tbolts being brought back to earth.....

But of course, continue to cherry pick and miss the larger picture point of the post.

Edited by Bishop Steiner, 05 March 2015 - 02:47 PM.

[BARBAR0SSA]

Bishop Steiner, on 05 March 2015 - 02:47 PM, said:

almost makes as much sense at crying over super overquirked Tbolts being brought back to earth.....

But of course, continue to cherry pick and miss the larger picture point of the post.

Not to mention that build is pretty identical to hellbringer that weighs 5T less in a 240T drop deck so it doesn't do much to encourage playing the summoner. Plus it's a build already in game used a lot with the added benefit of ECM and being able to sword and board as well, where summoner cannot although it can slighty have better cooling (45% Heat eff HBR vs 50% for SMR)

I'm curious how they do quirks, maybe they will have 1 torso, center torso, or arm that enables endo on it in place of hardpoints, another that gives quirks x and then another that does quirks Y. So you can either free up space on rest of mech, or use one that reduces heat on energy or one that increases ballistic cooldown. Eg. I think the summoner with a PPC recycle buff and LBX10 cooldown buff might actually be a decent mech.

Still really hoping for this to be the start of JJ overhaul, with the grasshopper released soon they could very well start off with 2 mechs using a new forward leap mechanic

Mmm imagine leaping forward over a DW, turning around mid air shooting it in the back, ducking out of cover and waiting the 10s or so it should take for a recharge and then leaping over a rock face and booking it out of there.

Or marching up to the gates on boreal to shoot the gen and then 5 summoners/grasshoppers all launch on top of the wall dropping arty strikes and blasting then trying to drop back; none of this slow upward stuff with instant drop down, if you hit jump, you're up in the air acting like a carnival game for dual gauss mech

Start a JJ change thread Bishop!

Edited by shad0w4life, 05 March 2015 - 03:30 PM.

[Bishop Steiner]

shad0w4life, on 05 March 2015 - 03:14 PM, said:

Not to mention that build is pretty much a crappier hellbringer that weighs 5T more in a 240T drop deck.

I'm curious how they do quirks, maybe they will have 1 torso, center torso, or arm that enables endo on it in place of hardpoints, another that gives quirks x and then another that does quirks Y. So you can either free up space on rest of mech, or use one that reduces heat on energy or one that increases ballistic cooldown. Eg. I think the summoner with a PPC recycle buff and LBX10 cooldown buff might actually be a decent mech.

Still really hoping for this to be the start of JJ overhaul, with the grasshopper released soon they could very well start off with 2 mechs using a new forward leap mechanic

I'm hoping as I expect the Hopper to be a key cog in my IS Dropdeck.

[Ultimax]

Bishop Steiner, on 05 March 2015 - 02:47 PM, said:

almost makes as much sense at crying over super overquirked Tbolts being brought back to earth.....

But of course, continue to cherry pick and miss the larger picture point of the post.

That Kain isn't happy with a 42 point alpha, 15 from Gauss, and apparently needs "more"?

Depending on what quirks the Summoner ends up with, it could very likely be better than most IS heavies once they are done - that was the point of my post.

Edited by Ultimatum X, 05 March 2015 - 03:45 PM.

[Kain Demos]

Ultimatum X, on 05 March 2015 - 03:44 PM, said:

That Kain isn't happy with a 42 point alpha, 15 from Gauss, and apparently needs "more"?

Depending on what quirks the Summoner ends up with, it could very likely be better than most IS heavies once they are done - that was the point of my post.

LOL.

With the quirks the various Thunderbolts have I severely doubt the Summoner is about to be better than them unless they go completely overboard.

You have gone off the deep end with your "IS UP" rhetoric of late. It seems a while back you were more reasonable but now when I dig through your posts it is propaganda mode 24/7.

Edited by Kain Thul, 05 March 2015 - 04:16 PM.

[Bishop Steiner]

Kain Thul, on 05 March 2015 - 04:15 PM, said:

LOL.

With the quirks the various Thunderbolts have I severely doubt the Summoner is about to be better than them unless they go completely overboard.

You have gone off the deep end with your "IS UP" rhetoric of late. It seems a while back you were more reasonable but now when I dig through your posts it propaganda mode 24/7.

Oh please.... please, for the love of all that's holy...don't get him started on another T-Bolt tangent........

[Bishop Steiner]

I really can't think of too much quirks that would do much for the Summoner, aside from reinforcing the already existing, and dreadfully boring laservomit and SRMvomit builds.

Remember the trend (at least for now) is to reinforce the stock builds. So we could get all fanciful, but I'm sticking to what is had.

On the whole, I don't think the chassis needs to many "across" the board quirks. Even less than fully armored, I find it sufficiently tough for most scenarios.

The only chassis-wide quirk I would desire, would be a buff to the JJ recharge rate, say 25%. The Summoner lives and dies by it's JJs and mobility.

For the Prime, one would need a combo of VND-1R type velocity buff (40%) and ER PPC Heat Reduction of at least 25%. On top of that, it would need close to CN9-D level cooldowns to the LB-10X. 35-40%. Why would they need to be that extreme?
Because to use them, one needs to be able to add more ammo to the LB-X, and to have a chance at tier 2 level play, it will need max armor, which means, without Endosteel, the weight has to come at the expense of the overall least important weapon system, the LRM15.

On the Bravo?
Cooldown buffs to LRMs and SRMs, both. LRMs probably need a range boost. Perhaps if there is more needed, Missile Heat Generation Reduction.

The Charlie?
Stock ammo, is again totally insufficient in 12 v 12 against doubled armor. Cooldowns to the UAC20, ER Large Laser and Streaks would be useful, but the entire mech itself is near useless, Meta-wise, and unless you are seeing generic energy, missile and ballistics quirks, this mech likely will get little benefit from the Quirks ti will get, in real game use. Still can't say I found it's addition to the game much use.

The Delta?
Obviously energy weapon cooldowns and laser heat reduction. Would probably benefit greatly from an ER LArge Range boost, too.

Of course, it will probably end up with a MG Range Buff, instead. *Sigh*.

In all, unless we see some out of character Quirks (which rumors abound, are coming), it's hard to see quirks alone really remotely making the SMN a viable alternative to Clan Drop Decks.

[Yokaiko]

Ultimatum X, on 05 March 2015 - 03:44 PM, said:

Depending on what quirks the Summoner ends up with, it could very likely be better than most IS heavies once they are done - that was the point of my post.

As long as the -1N and -5SS exist in their current state the summoner will still barely stand up.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Yokaiko, on 08 March 2015 - 10:45 PM, said:

As long as the -1N and -5SS exist in their current state the summoner will still barely stand up.

You realize he said most IS heavies, and there are many more heavies than the 1N and the Thunderbolts. I would take a Summoner over the other Dragons, Orions, Cataphracts, and Catapults and that is before it gets quirks. Granted, I'm still of the mind that the Mad Dog outside of abusing SSRMs is the worst Clan heavy, even then, it has a leg up on over half the IS heavies as well.

Edited by WM Quicksilver, 08 March 2015 - 11:01 PM.

[Detriitus]

Bishop Steiner, on 08 March 2015 - 09:21 PM, said:

On the Bravo?
LRMs probably need a range boost.

Do you mean SRMs?

[Kmieciu]

People who want an unlocked Endo or JJ on the Summoner crack me up.

They don't realize that quirks can give them so much more tonnage.

A simple laser duration quirk can change your LLs into LPLs. It's just like getting 2 free tonnes per laser. A quirk that doubles your UAC20 fire rate essentially gives you an additional 10 tonnes more of firepower.

Why do you think a Dragon-1N is so powerful? It's because it has the DPS of 6xAC5 for the weight of 2. That's basically 32 tonnes of free weapons.

Summoner needs better cooling and more DPS. Let him keep his unique character - as an agile jumping mech that doesn't need to boat ERML.

[Matthew Ace]

In response to the most recent reply by Bishop above: Not too bad.. This is what I would do instead, while keeping to the restriction of locked internals type:

Base Chassis
-JJ unlocked
-Medium Movement Archetype
-Increased Accel/Decel/Turn
-Increased Torso twist range
-Increased Arm range

1. Thor Prime

RA "energy sniper arm"
-12.5% energy heat
+10% energy cooldown
+12.5% energy range

LA "ballistic skirmisher arm"
+10% ballistic cooldown
+10% ballistic velocity

LT
+10% missile velocity
+10% missile cooldown

Set bonus:
Doubled weapon quirks
+20% cerPPC damage


2. Thor B

Arms:
+5% missile velocity each
+5% missile range each
+5% missile cooldown each

LT:
+5% missile velocity
+5% missile cooldown

Set Bonus:
+10% missile range
+5% missile cooldown


3. Thor C

RA
-12.5% energy heat
-12.5% laser duration

LA "brawling arm"
-12.5% ballistic cooldown
+20% UAC20 velocity
-10% UAC20 heat

LT
+12.5% missile cooldown

Set Bonus
All weapon quirks doubled


4. Thor D

Arms
-7.5% laser duration each
-7.5% energy heat each

No idea what to give for torsos. AMS range?

Set Bonus
-10% laser duration
-10% energy heat


Well somewhere along those lines anyway. PGI should leverage omnimech set bonuses IMO.

[TB Freelancer]

Mcgral18, on 21 December 2014 - 03:15 PM, said:

Yet the Clams are all stuck with what they have.

That inherently means the bad chassis' will be ignored, as we can clearly see is happening. Do it as a case by case basis, but some certainly need that ability.

I'd completely agree with that if there weren't a quirk pass for clan mechs in the works. But since there is, I'll just wait and see what mechs the quirks make kings of. Also the reality is quirks can go much farther than that little bit of customization with results that can easily be scaled back or ramped up.

[Mcgral18]

Detriitus, on 09 March 2015 - 01:18 AM, said:

Do you mean SRMs?

Why not general Missile Range?

[charov]

I own this mech since the clan invasion but I never liked it. Few days ago I began the grind and I enjoyed it with GR and 4x ML. Usual dmg was between 450 and 800 (basic skills). Not much indeed but still acceptable.

It could benefit from few minor quirks but I don't think is as bad as some ppl here say. Or, probably, most of you try to play in a way that does not fit it.

[mogs01gt]

red devil2, on 09 March 2015 - 04:56 AM, said:

I own this mech since the clan invasion but I never liked it. Few days ago I began the grind and I enjoyed it with GR and 4x ML. Usual dmg was between 450 and 800 (basic skills). Not much indeed but still acceptable.

It could benefit from few minor quirks but I don't think is as bad as some ppl here say. Or, probably, most of you try to play in a way that does not fit it.

No it simply sounds like you havent played the Thor enough or do not own the TBR-S as a comparison( I have both)..Your build as an example. The TBR-s does it better.
SMN-PRIME
TBR-S

I have hundreds of drops in my Thor. It has issues. Hell it cant even handle the 4erMLs in a battle.

Edited by mogs01gt, 09 March 2015 - 05:12 AM.