93 replies to this topic

[Dirty Starfish]

Bishop Steiner, on 21 December 2014 - 10:41 AM, said:

can I get some of whatever you're smoking?

Your "example" is taken to such a hyperbolistic extreme as to have no value.

*SMH*

Do people these days not even understand the basics of good debating?

*cough cough* ad hominem *cough cough*

But yeah, balance is looking pretty good and I wouldn't call clans p2w.

Edited by Serial Peacemaker, 21 December 2014 - 10:51 AM.

[darkkterror]

This is one of those threads where if you make it even a quarter of the way through the OP (and that's being generous) you immediately know not to take it seriously.

[hashinshin]

Bishop Steiner, on 21 December 2014 - 10:48 AM, said:

And you are the Gaming and Marketing expert to do it. Right.

Maybe if you put together a less rambling, more fact based mission statement for your OP, PGI, or well, any of the rest of us, might take it a little more seriously.

Because so far, the only "joke" anyone has heard is your opening argument.

Please, clean it up, focus it, support it with facts and details, and such, and we'll be happy to listen.

You have yet to discuss nor refute a single one of my arguments yet you engage in ad hominem attacks liberally to as make it seem as if you are refuting my arguments.

Edited by hashinshin, 21 December 2014 - 10:52 AM.

[occusoj]

Quote

There comes a point when the grind is so insurmountable that even being "available for in game currency" remains P2W.

I had no problem grinding cbills for the TBR and DWF, without heroes or premium time. Just normal matches. Takes some time but its entirely possible.
Everyone can get them without spending a single $.
Besides that, the latest clan releases arent really that much of "win", just pay.

The really bad thing happening in MWO is power creep but thats not linked to "pay2win" or limited to the clans.

edit: First to claim OPs stuff. Can I has it when you go?

Edited by occusoj, 21 December 2014 - 10:53 AM.

[Bulletsponge0]

still waiting for the OP to better explain how something that costs $0.00 is pay2win

[Bishop Steiner]

Serial Peacemaker, on 21 December 2014 - 10:49 AM, said:

*cough cough* ad hominem *cough cough*

sometimes the person's argument is so inherently flawed by their approach that it is inseparable. A good argument is immune to ad hominem attacks because it stands on the facts.

The OP has presented none, and thus, one can only address him and his approach. His one attempt, "P2W" was discredited long before he ever put together this rambling diatribe.

[Mavairo]

hashinshin, on 21 December 2014 - 10:49 AM, said:

https://i.imgur.com/mr9gxaN.gif

...? Clans have gained territory every single day. The facts show the complete opposite of your statement is true AND that the very facts you call upon show you are wrong.

Only Kurita is losing there.
Gee I wonder why with players like you in it.
FRR has been pushing forward, as has Steiner.
I know for a fact most of FRR and Steiner is focusing on wolf and falcon on the clan edges. Coincidentally they're the ones being pushed backwards.

Edited by Mavairo, 21 December 2014 - 10:53 AM.

[hashinshin]

Bulletsponge0, on 21 December 2014 - 10:52 AM, said:

still waiting for the OP to better explain how something that costs $0.00 is pay2win

I already explained this.

[Bishop Steiner]

hashinshin, on 21 December 2014 - 10:52 AM, said:

You have yet to discuss nor refute a single one of my arguments yet you engage in ad hominem attacks liberally to as make it seem as if you are refuting my arguments.

actually, the only "credible" argument you attempted, which was the P2W argument, was rebuffed long ago.

Next?

[Bulletsponge0]

hashinshin, on 21 December 2014 - 10:53 AM, said:

I already explained this.

investing time =/= PAY2win

you do get what PAY means right?

[hashinshin]

Mavairo, on 21 December 2014 - 10:53 AM, said:

Only Kurita is losing there.
Gee I wonder why with players like you in it.
FRR has been pushing forward, as has Steiner.
I know for a fact most of FRR and Steiner is focusing on wolf and falcon on the clan edges. Coincidentally they're the ones being pushed backwards.

Kurita. Steiner, and rasehablablabla are all losing territory. Are you color blind? Well even if you were color blind I'd have to assume you could still see the lines being pushed inwards.

[Bishop Steiner]

hashinshin, on 21 December 2014 - 10:53 AM, said:

I already explained this.

No. You really didn't. And you conveniently are ignoring the facts Mavairo is presenting. If Clans are OP, why are they losing territory in CW, the only venue it's pure Clan vs Clan? (And it should be noted, despite the 2 most prominent comp teams being Clan players)

Hmmmmmmmmmmm?

[hashinshin]

Bishop Steiner, on 21 December 2014 - 10:53 AM, said:

actually, the only "credible" argument you attempted, which was the P2W argument, was rebuffed long ago.

Next?

Again with the ad hominem. Winning an internet argument won't help, nor will it save MWO. Though I'm sure you can go to bed thinking "hehe I am teh 1337 haxor I showed that guy."

[Bishop Steiner]

Bulletsponge0, on 21 December 2014 - 10:54 AM, said:

investing time =/= PAY2win

you do get what PAY means right?

Or "win".

Since ATM, the Clans are losing. Not badly, but still losing.

[hashinshin]

Bishop Steiner, on 21 December 2014 - 10:55 AM, said:

No. You really didn't. And you conveniently are ignoring the facts Mavairo is presenting. If Clans are OP, why are they losing territory in CW, the only venue it's pure Clan vs Clan? (And it should be noted, despite the 2 most prominent comp teams being Clan players)

Hmmmmmmmmmmm?

I'm legitimately at a loss here. Anyone can see from the image shown on your own website created by your own players and assured by, again, your own players as to its accuracy that clan is gaining territory in every direction against three different factions. Are you just blindly ignoring it? Is this what I'm arguing with?

[MechB Kotare]

Gotta love people comming after year with shabby skill and in game performance, cry about how OP is something that killed them.

Edited by MechB Kotare, 21 December 2014 - 10:57 AM.

[Bishop Steiner]

hashinshin, on 21 December 2014 - 10:55 AM, said:

Again with the ad hominem. Winning an internet argument won't help, nor will it save MWO. Though I'm sure you can go to bed thinking "hehe I am teh 1337 haxor I showed that guy."

lol...oh look, thanks to Serial Peacemaker, you found a new word.

*yawn*

Still waiting for you to actually present a credible argument to refute. Can't have one without the other.

[Bulletsponge0]

hashinshin, on 21 December 2014 - 10:56 AM, said:

I'm legitimately at a loss here. Anyone can see from the image shown on your own website created by your own players and assured by, again, your own players as to its accuracy that clan is gaining territory in every direction against three different factions. Are you just blindly ignoring it? Is this what I'm arguing with?

so, in your world, only if every battle ended in a stalemate would it not be pay2win?

[KuroNyra]

hashinshin, on 21 December 2014 - 10:33 AM, said:

bunch of stupidity

Really? Man, I don't know if your trolling or completly stupid that your wall of text is so full of stupidity.
Pay-2-Win? Clans are available for C-bill now, and they weren't invulnerable when they first arrived.... Ho but wait, you weren't there when they arrived!

The Clans have in theory:
- Better Range
- More damage with there weapons
- Better speed.

But in the practice, it doesn't work that way.
- Better range in theory, but thanks to the Maps making the said range useless, Inner Sphere Mech can engage easyly the Clans mech.
- Again on the range, most of the IS Mech got quircks for the range of there weapons, you can even place the range modules on you can actually have some IS mech with the same range if not better range than Clans Mech.
- More damage but much more difficult to place, laser durations of the Clans is much longer than there spheroid counterpart, they are thus easier to spread the damage all over the mech and thus, making the efficienty of the attack dropping exponotially. The same goes for Ballistic guns, where an IS mech need 1 bullet to do full damage, Clans need 4 at least. Same way, easier to spread the damage.
- Let's not even talk about the fact that Clans mech are actually hotter than IS Mech and you will see them overheating very often. They can bring much more weapons, but can't use them like they should in the Lore. (Remember why the Loki and the Thor were know? Because they could almost never overheat... Yeah, while in MWO they Overheat pretty easyly.)
-There design also make them easy to target, most of them are large, big and hard to miss...



I could go on but I think you are just a troll coming for Christmas, I would be surprised you did not even played the game... Or just a few game without thinking about adapting your old strategy. (if you even have one.)

[Bulletsponge0]

looking at that map, IS factions have gained ground v other IS factions

thus, IS must be PAY2win

or at least certain factions are PAY2win

just change your faction (for free) and you've paid to win