93 replies to this topic

[darkkterror]

Mavairo, on 21 December 2014 - 11:25 AM, said:

Don't worry he'll cry some more, whine, rage then quit again in a day.

Then we can just wait until next year when he posts pretty much the same thread.

[InspectorG]

hashinshin, on 21 December 2014 - 10:33 AM, said:

Across the entire internet MWO is sort of a joke. Once the Clans came out that joke became hilarious. I wasn't here for that, but across all internet sources people joked about how pay2win MWO had become. It started with hero mechs, then they nerfed cbills, then they did pre-order packs, then t hey did the clan invasion. Culminating in an unmistakable P2W scheme.

Well CW came out and MWO got some attention again so I decided to come back despite the most adamant claims being to the OPness of Clans and how the game remains P2W. Some people said "oh Clans got nerfed it's okay now" well the first thing I see on the website is another pre-order package. Joyous.

However it's only once I start playing games that it becomes unapproachable the concept that clans are still OP. After reading these forums it becomes clear that Clans are OP. Why? Not because people say they're OP, but the degree to which people will go to defend them, something that isn't OP doesn't get defended so strongly and by so many personal attacks unless we all know that they are OP and that people just don't want to lose that.

The problem remains that MWO is still a joke across the internet. The problem is that PGI pretends that now since everyone can "get timberwolves for free" (farm for 60 hours to get 1 of the 3 you need) that the problem is gone. Well first off if something is OP it's OP no matter if it's given out as a christmas gift to everyone for actually free. Second off, no. Clan mechs are most expensive than their IS counterparts by far. The game still remains a massive grind fest taking absurd times to just get a few mechs. Worse yet though is that even if people DID want to buy in to the game they'd hit a massive ******* pay wall of $50 to get a Timber Wolf.

Now lets compare MWO to two games it always likes to compare itself to, LoL and WoT: The first comparison is obvious since PGI themselves compared their pricing scheme to LoL's and said it was fair. The problem with this one is that you do not need to buy a new rune page for every champion in LoL, and champions in LoL tend to be balanced enough against each other. Worse yet is that champions in LoL do not need endo-steel nor DHS and most of the time they don't even need an XL engine. WORST yet is that since making that comment Clantech has come out and the pricing for the strongest mechs has gone up considerably with the best clan mechs themselves not even being available for in game currency for like 6 months. The Timber Wolf is more expensive by far than the most expensive mech in the game as of the time of PGI's comment and the comment itself ignored the fact that mechs need more upgrades and parts after purchase, LoL champions do not.

The second comparison is the good one. WoT tanks are about the same price as MWO mechs, right? Except the more expensive the purchase the higher tier you fight along. A new player can buy a Centurian and go "oh boy time to play me some MWO" promptly get **** slapped by a Dire Wolf or Timber Wolf. What's more is that WoT's pricing structure is there because their XP/money curve matches up. You can level in WoT and never float XP nor money and feel like you're progressing on par. In MWO you quickly start floating XP while struggling to afford even medium mechs in a reasonable time (lord help you if you want a heavy+ clan mech.) This means the player is often left with little choice than to buy in if he wants to keep progressing. The problem then becomes the pricing. Hawken and other similar games with small playerbases place their prices low to encourage new players to buy in. MWO acts like it's an industry juggernaut when the reality is it struggles to get by.

The combination of an absolute grindfest to reach anything worth noting, the power spike in the higher priced mechs (Clans) and pre-orders constantly being released containing more powerful mechs is exactly why MWO is such a joke to the gaming community. It's P2W, Pay2NotGrind, Pay2Play in many cases since going in to CW without a top tier set of Clan mechs means you're going to be dying to many Timber Wolves, and worse yet it's feature light.

Maybe MWO can keep acting like it's an industry juggernaut, keeping it's P2W and it's pricing and everything about itself while at the same time not actually being what it thinks it is. Maybe the dedicated playerbase will keep shoving money at you. But how many more tricks does it have left in store? They won't allow any mech to be better than the Timber Wolf and CW is now "released." That's pretty much it for your strategies. Unless you make some real changes (and it's probably too late as is) you're just going to continue to alienate anyone who tries to play while at the same time discouraging your remaining players from staying.

This is all a lie! I have anecdotal evidence that this one time I used a trebuchet and killed three Timber Wolves clan tech is fine and balanced and I think the game is fair and please don't notice my clan founder insignia!

http://mwomercs.com/...bolts-for-days/

[Mercules]

mogs01gt, on 21 December 2014 - 11:54 AM, said:

That is because most are not true gamers and have tried multiple F2P. Im not talking 5, Im talking like 20. Hell there are around 15 F2P MoBa's to try to understand what true F2P is.

Credibility = GONE...

https://yourlogicalf...o-true-scotsman


I play like 8 F2P games including MWO. I can buy a Deathknell only for MC just like I can only get certain mounts or unlock the ability to equip certain types of item in other games. The mounts let me go 10% faster than the non-pay mount and the items might be better by a bit in a couple stats. However, these things are not required to win and are probably MORE of a boost than a Deathknell is to the other Commandos out there.

Timberwolves I can buy with C-Bills so they are not P2W they are P2Convenience of not having to spend hours getting the money to buy one.

[Bulletsponge0]

mogs01gt, on 21 December 2014 - 11:54 AM, said:

Brought.....I've been posting on these forums longer than Hash has.


Hash is right but the blind supports of MWO and Battletech games have no true gaming experience when it comes to F2P games. MWO will always be P2W until princing of mechs gets into the 5 to 10 dollar range.

Clans are OP. There is no reason to not run a Crow, TBR or DWF since they are the best mechs in their class even compared to other Clanners.

I understand most blind MWO and Battletech supporters will ignore this. That is because most are not true gamers and havent tried multiple F2P. Im not talking 5, Im talking like 20. Hell there are around 15 F2P MoBa's to try to understand what true F2P is.

wait...
So you say that MWO is currently pay2win, but if you only have to spend $5 or $10, then it won't be pay2win?


what??

[KuroNyra]

mogs01gt, on 21 December 2014 - 11:54 AM, said:

Brought.....I've been posting on these forums longer than Hash has.


Hash is right but the blind supports of MWO and Battletech games have no true gaming experience when it comes to F2P games. MWO will always be P2W until princing of mechs gets into the 5 to 10 dollar range.

Clans are OP. There is no reason to not run a Crow, TBR or DWF since they are the best mechs in their class even compared to other Clanners.

I understand most blind MWO and Battletech supporters will ignore this. That is because most are not true gamers and have tried multiple F2P. Im not talking 5, Im talking like 20. Hell there are around 15 F2P MoBa's to try to understand what true F2P is.

"True Gamers".
One of the best joke I ever read in this year.

I don't think you even know what a "True Gamer" is in reality.

[KharnZor]

KuroNyra, on 21 December 2014 - 12:04 PM, said:

"True Gamers".
One of the best joke I ever read in this year.

I don't think you even know what a "True Gamer" is in reality.

I don't think there's such a thing in the way he means it.
If you enjoy your games, no matter what they are then you'd qualify as a 'true' gamer imo

[mogs01gt]

Bulletsponge0, on 21 December 2014 - 12:04 PM, said:

wait...
So you say that MWO is currently pay2win, but if you only have to spend $5 or $10, then it won't be pay2win?
what??

My point exactly about MWO people not being true gamers.

I really dont want to take the time to explain it. Its already been explained a billion times in other threads regarding P2W. Do a forum search or actually read that Hash is saying instead of trolling him.

The issue now is that IS mechs, when new, are at the same price as Clanners without the benefits. That is horrible and why IS mechs will fail to sell like Clan mechs did.

KharnZor, on 21 December 2014 - 12:06 PM, said:

If you enjoy your games, no matter what they are then you'd qualify as a 'true' gamer imo

No not at all.

Edited by mogs01gt, 21 December 2014 - 12:16 PM.

[KuroNyra]

KharnZor, on 21 December 2014 - 12:06 PM, said:

I don't think there's such a thing in the way he means it.
If you enjoy your games, no matter what they are then you'd qualify as a 'true' gamer imo

A True Gamer is someone able to place Both Video Game and IRL in his life at equal part.
Succeding in both, and by succeding. I mean having fun in the video game, not necessaraly being the OMFGWTF Monster of Skill some morons think "Gamers" are. Theses guys completly lost the real objective of a video game. Relaxing, have some fun and no stress.

mogs01gt, on 21 December 2014 - 12:09 PM, said:

The issue now is that IS mechs, when new, are at the same price as Clanners without the benefits. That is horrible and why IS mechs will fail to sell like Clan mechs did.

Ok, you clearly don't play this game at all.
Since the quirks I never saw so much IS Mech on the field compared to the Clans mech.

[Sable]

the only thing i can think of is that the OP after trying clan mechs hasn't realized that IS mechs have handy dandy quirks now.

[CancersCincar]

mogs01gt, on 21 December 2014 - 12:09 PM, said:

My point exactly about MWO people not being true gamers.

I really dont want to take the time to explain it. Its already been explained a billion times in other threads regarding P2W. Do a forum search or actually read that Hash is saying instead of trolling him.

The issue now is that IS mechs, when new, are at the same price as Clanners without the benefits. That is horrible and why IS mechs will fail to sell like Clan mechs did.

Okay, wait.

Why are we talking about paying for Inner Sphere 'mechs VS, paying for Clan 'mechs? I thought the point was that Paying to Win involved... well... you know. Paying money to win. I can just buy Clan 'mechs with C-Bills. I don't have to pay for Clan 'mechs or Inner Sphere 'mechs, and even the Hero 'mechs aren't automatically good. I've heard that the Pretty Baby is awful, and that's a Hero 'mech that you have to pay for, which I think would entail that MWO isn't totally pay to win.

If I use C-Bills to buy... say... a Timber Wolf, I didn't really pay for that. And it certainly doesn't mean I'll win. What If I mount all TAG? Pretty sure that won't win anything but the most-laser-pointers-brought-on-a-mech award.

I mean, paying to win is what I heard World of Tanks used to be; you would pay gold (the premium currency) for ammunition that had better penetration stats, so you would consistently do much more damage because you would penetrate tanks more. That's pay to win right there.

Edit: Beside the point, the Resistance Pack is only 80$ for the biggest pack, and Clan Wave II is 120$ for the biggest pack. I'd say they're not the same price.

Edited by CancersCincar, 21 December 2014 - 01:38 PM.

[Heffay]

mogs01gt, on 21 December 2014 - 12:09 PM, said:

My point exactly about MWO people not being true gamers.

What is a true gamer? Do they wear special clothing to identify themselves? Have a sekrit club they belong to? If I want to be a true gamer, how do I go about it? Is there spanking in the initiation?

[Bishop Steiner]

Xetelian, on 21 December 2014 - 11:57 AM, said:

It is very hard to take anything in this thread seriously.

I take my popcorn VERY seriously

[Bishop Steiner]

KuroNyra, on 21 December 2014 - 12:04 PM, said:

"True Gamers".
One of the best joke I ever read in this year.

I don't think you even know what a "True Gamer" is in reality.

apparently the minmax tryhards he hopes someday to be when he grows up? You know the same one who are sniggering and laughing at him with us (just for different reasons).

Sorry guys..not trying to be harsh, but ya bring that on yourself when you toss out terms like "True Gamer·.

If you ain't getting Paid to Pñlay, you probably ain't a "true gamer".

Heffay, on 21 December 2014 - 03:24 PM, said:

What is a true gamer? Do they wear special clothing to identify themselves? Have a sekrit club they belong to? If I want to be a true gamer, how do I go about it? Is there spanking in the initiation?

First Rule of being a TRVE KOMP Gamer.

There is No TRVE KOMP Gamers.

Edited by Bishop Steiner, 21 December 2014 - 03:38 PM.

[Mercules]

mogs01gt, on 21 December 2014 - 12:09 PM, said:

My point exactly about MWO people not being true gamers.

I really dont want to take the time to explain it. Its already been explained a billion times in other threads regarding P2W. Do a forum search or actually read that Hash is saying instead of trolling him.

It is explained like this:

Quote

‘No True Scotsman’ Fallacy

Explanation
The no true scotsman fallacy is a way of reinterpreting evidence in order to prevent the refutation of one’s position. Proposed counter-examples to a theory are dismissed as irrelevant solely because they are counter-examples, but purportedly because they are not what the theory is about.

Example

The No True Scotsman fallacy involves discounting evidence that would refute a proposition, concluding that it hasn’t been falsified when in fact it has.

If Angus, a Glaswegian, who puts sugar on his porridge, is proposed as a counter-example to the claim “No Scotsman puts sugar on his porridge”, the ‘No true Scotsman’ fallacy would run as follows:
(1) Angus puts sugar on his porridge.
(2) No (true) Scotsman puts sugar on his porridge.
Therefore:
(3) Angus is not a (true) Scotsman.
Therefore:
(4) Angus is not a counter-example to the claim that no Scotsman puts sugar on his porridge.

This fallacy is a form of circular argument, with an existing belief being assumed to be true in order to dismiss any apparent counter-examples to it. The existing belief thus becomes unfalsifiable.

Real-World Examples
An argument similar to this is often arises when people attempt to define religious groups. In some Christian groups, for example, there is an idea that faith is permanent, that once one becomes a Christian one cannot fall away. Apparent counter-examples to this idea, people who appear to have faith but subsequently lose it, are written off using the ‘No True Scotsman’ fallacy: they didn’t really have faith, they weren’t true Christians. The claim that faith cannot be lost is thus preserved from refutation. Given such an approach, this claim is unfalsifiable, there is no possible refutation of it.