85 replies to this topic

[One Medic Army]

Khobai, on 22 December 2014 - 11:37 PM, said:

We need LFEs, MRMs, and ATMs

missile options are very limited right now and we need new missile weapons

Don't forget the iNARC with nemesis pods.

[insert evil laughing]

[EvilCow]

I would like much more to see IS-specific new technologies like LFEs, MRMs etc than a further nerf of clan technology across the board.

Tweaking specific mechs is a different matter, some need improvements, some others are way too effective. I would give specific bonuses to normal internal structure and armor, for example:

Normal Internal Structure: +10% hit points for torso and leg sections, +5% for arms and head.
Normal Armor: Ability to absorb smaller ballistic damage (< 1 point, basically immune to MGs), small projectiles would bounce off without significant damage, heat dissipation bonus of 5% because better thermal conductivity compared to FF.

This would give clan mechs locked without ES/FF very specific bonuses without having to invent quirks. TTK would slightly increase globally too.

Edited by EvilCow, 23 December 2014 - 12:07 AM.

[Pjwned]

What light fusion engines would give is power creep.

Not a fan.

[Tincan Nightmare]

Honestly I don't see the LFE being the IS game changer people are constantly making it out to be. If a mech has good hit boxes to mount an XL, you would always choose that option as you get the most weight savings. The LFE could potentially replace the STD engine, becoming the next C-bill tax along with DHS, but while you get the ability to survive one side torso being destroyed you get very small savings in weight over the standard engine (let alone comparing it to savings in weight from Clan XL). For mechs whose hit boxes mean that they lose both side torsos practically every game, it would probably be better to stick with a standard engine.

Most of the time, when comparing Clan to IS, the argument is usually about weapon performance and XL survivability, but the biggest difference is in weight and critcial slot savings. Clans get 7 slot FF and Endo, plus 2 slot DHS. Coupled with weapons that are lighter and more compact, Clan mechs don't need as much weight as IS mechs to carry comparable firepower, and can pack more items into the same amount of space. The LFE will take up almost as much critical slots as an XL, while only offering a slight weight advantage over standard engines. I don't see this as a serious threat to the Clans, as their lighter weapons and more compact systems will outweight the slight weight gain an LFE gives you.

I also don't see ER med. lasers being super important to the IS in facing the Clans. It does the same damage, at increased heat (in TT I think at the same heat cost as the Clan ER though they could change that), for a slight increase in range. I still use standard lg. lasers much of the time as they run cooler and the range issue doesn't usually effect my gameplay, can't see it being any different for the ER med. laser for the IS.

[Macster16]

I have to agree though that LFEs would just about obsolete STD engines on all but the biggest assaults and would create a similar situation to SHS vs DHS. I mean, how many mechs have CT hardpoints to take full zombie advantage that STD engines allow? And even then, you're not exactly much of a threat anymore being a CT on legs lugging around poking people with your one or two mlas. Lets face it, if you lose both STs, you're pretty much out of the match....

[Thorn Hallis]

Let's see what we'll get in the future:

IS

Light engines
Light gauss
Heavy gauss
Streak SRM4
Streak SRM6
MRMs
ER Medium Laser
ER Light Laser
LBX and Ultra versions of all ACs
Stealth armor
Rocket Launcher
iNARC
C3i

Clan

ATM
Heavy Laser

I think there will come a time when the Clans actually need buffs.

[totgeboren]

Andi Nagasia, on 22 December 2014 - 10:42 PM, said:

i agree and disagree,
if they gave IS LFE it would be bad for Clan
BUT,...

Clan would also get better quirks,
to balance them against a Better IS,

as ive said above i would like to see LFE and ER-ML released,
and then balance clan accordingly to that and everything else,
so 1 Balance pass with LFE and ER-ML,

other than NERF Clan to match everything,
than after LFE and ER-ML finally do get released,
BUFF Clan back up again to make it balanced,
so 2 balance passes when only 1 is needed,

But you have to remember that it's only the specific IS mechs that really benefit from the new engines that get any better. It's not like it's a sweeping buff of IS.

Some mechs will get better, but saying all will get better is like the people calling for an all-out nerf of Clanners when it's only really two or three mechs that are unbalanced. Some IS mechs might need to have their quirks toned down if they benefit greatly from LFEs, but on the other hand that just reduces options.

However, I guess that's no different to how it is now? A Stalker with an XL is a horrible idea, and a Cataplut with a STD engine is equally silly. So there are quite a few mechs where the 'option' on what engine to use is kinda illusory.

[Joseph Mallan]

Andi Nagasia, on 22 December 2014 - 03:37 PM, said:

anyway i would like to know the communities thoughts?
what to you think about LFE how do you feel about it?


Thoughts Comments Concerns?
Thanks,

Edit- Notes

They are OK. They are not due in the game for a few decades. And we are JUST encountering the forces that stimulate the research into that tech. We don't need it in game yet.

[Whatzituyah]

SaltBeef, on 22 December 2014 - 11:29 PM, said:

There had to be a midpoint concession to the IS XXL. it should technically only be availiable to IS Omni mechs and lock most everything like the clan ones do. Release engine size lock on clan Omni's, endo / FF, as well and IS can put it into any mech the want..

The IS XXL would be a horrible idea because according to Sarna it will generate heat no matter what you do. But the IS L engine is a great idea and I will be glad to be part of this discussion.

Edited by Whatzituyah, 23 December 2014 - 03:43 AM.

[Widowmaker1981]

If it would stop certain people incessantly whining about clans then id be all for it. It would be a fairly large buff to IS Assaults and some heavies (Huge for Tbolts and Orions, Helps Jagers but less so) and a few mediums (Hunchies?) (no lights, all lights will still use XLs), and would probably mean some quirks needed adjusting though.

[Joseph Mallan]

Widowmaker1981, on 23 December 2014 - 03:46 AM, said:

If it would stop certain people incessantly whining about clans then id be all for it. It would be a fairly large buff to IS Assaults and some heavies (Huge for Tbolts and Orions, Helps Jagers but less so) and a few mediums (Hunchies?) (no lights, all lights will still use XLs), and would probably mean some quirks needed adjusting though.

biggest word in the English language Widow!

[Andi Nagasia]

totgeboren, on 23 December 2014 - 03:32 AM, said:

But you have to remember that it's only the specific IS mechs that really benefit from the new engines that get any better. It's not like it's a sweeping buff of IS.

Some mechs will get better, but saying all will get better is like the people calling for an all-out nerf of Clanners when it's only really two or three mechs that are unbalanced. Some IS mechs might need to have their quirks toned down if they benefit greatly from LFEs, but on the other hand that just reduces options.

However, I guess that's no different to how it is now? A Stalker with an XL is a horrible idea, and a Cataplut with a STD engine is equally silly. So there are quite a few mechs where the 'option' on what engine to use is kinda illusory.

i agree to some point that only Mechs that have LFE equipped will benefit from it,
as well as LFE arnt for every mech, for maximum weight savings people will always choose XLs,
and when it comes to the best in serviceability, will still take their STD Engines over LFE,
but for those in the middle that want a good balance between the two LFE could help,

Example i added to Topic Post
=Example=
lets look at 2 55Ton Mechs, HBK & NVA,
both are(can be) dedicated Energy Boats,
but lets load them up with the same equipment,
and look to see their free tonnage without LFEs,
HBK(STD), HBK(STD+E&F), HBK(XL), vs NVA(C-XL),
now lets look at the same mech with 250LFE(-3tons from IS XL),
im also adding on 2LPL each as IS weigh +1ton more than Clan,
HBK(LFE), HBK(LFE+E), vs NVA(C-XL),
so the HBK(LFE+E)(-3Tons) has 4 Free Tons,
and the Nva(C-XL)also has 4 Free Tons,
the HBK can also still upgrade to Ferro,
and Damage? HBK=22 vs NVA=26,
and Heat? HBK=71% vs NVA=56%,

[Wolfwood592]

Widowmaker1981, on 23 December 2014 - 03:46 AM, said:

If it would stop certain people incessantly whining about clans then id be all for it. It would be a fairly large buff to IS Assaults and some heavies (Huge for Tbolts and Orions, Helps Jagers but less so) and a few mediums (Hunchies?) (no lights, all lights will still use XLs), and would probably mean some quirks needed adjusting though.

Unfortunately just like XLs your gonna run out of Crit Space before you run out of tonnage. It would be nice, but in a lot of my builds I will keep the STD simply because of the torso crit space that is taken with these motors. Don't think it would be as large for Tbolts as you may think, without enough DHSs to support the LPL and MPL builds it almost becomes too hot to handle. Orions on the other hand......

Joseph Mallan, on 23 December 2014 - 04:15 AM, said:

biggest word in the English language Widow!

You would know wouldn't ya?

[Joseph Mallan]

Wolfwood592, on 23 December 2014 - 09:11 AM, said:

You would know wouldn't ya?

Well IF worms had Machine Guns is a very old saying... are you implying I wrote it???

[Wolfwood592]

Joseph Mallan, on 23 December 2014 - 09:15 AM, said:

Well IF worms had Machine Guns is a very old saying... are you implying I wrote it???

ahahahaha

On a serious note, how pis**d are you gonna be if they bust the timeline?

[Metus regem]

Wolfwood592, on 23 December 2014 - 09:17 AM, said:

ahahahaha

On a serious note, how pis**d are you gonna be if they bust the timeline?

You mean more than they already have with S-omni pods, that should be later 3051/3052, as they were developed to deal with IS infantry tactics?

Besides the prototype LFE's are 3053... I've mentioned them to Russ before, he made indications that after a season of CW they might look at moving them in sooner than the 3060's

[C E Dwyer]

Ok I had a much longer post, explaining why I don't think they're needed, but I'm fed up with these forums logging me out and losing it, so i'll just put it in a single sentence.

They will give us nothing but more Imbalance, and power creep.

[Walluh]

No idea how this is powercreep since it's a potential global buff to IS mechs. It's not invalidating anything but standard engines, and even then those will still be used in critslot starved builds.

[Brody319]

It won't make IS more powerful than clans. as long as they start undoing some nerfs. Like hardwired JJs, More omnipods, some fixed ballistics, No ghost heat on mpls like the IS has, maybe they could also release some non-omnipod clan mechs. like the Piranha!!

[SerratedBlaze]

I feel like the primary effect will be more ac/20s. Since they can fit into a st with lfe but not xl, and weigh enough to limit std engine buidls. Id like to toss a ac20in my shadowhawk without moving like an assault. Catapults still do xl, my orion would like lfe since its symetrical. Wolverines can stick to xl since losing the right st cripples it anyway.