614 replies to this topic

[Fluffinator]

I wouldn't mind letting people have 3rd person view as long as 90% of what they could see was limited to the backside of their own mech...no arial free scout mode.

[MajorLeeHung]

Angelicon, on 31 October 2011 - 08:48 PM, said:

So a future where people drive 30 foot tall robots doesn't have the tech skill to orbit some micro cameras for outside view? There's nothing weird or cheaty about it, it's real -today-. Give me the option for outside view please.

Thats the biggest line of poop iv ever read. should read something like "I have no skill and want to cheat other people out of ever getting the upper hand on me with my lame rationalization for 3rd person view"

Now, show ONE book where the merc, clanner, FBS, etc is walking around with "hover camera's" and Ill show you a book you wrote yourself!

Just saying.

Edited by MajorLeeHung, 20 February 2012 - 06:12 AM.

[Gorith]

Fluffinator, on 19 February 2012 - 08:36 PM, said:

Um the apache does that now...do you really think these mechs are less advanced than our current choppers?

This is silly. Battletech is set in an alternate universe to our own (IE it's fiction) there for use of "It exists today in our real world" is completely without merit. Also factor in that most of the technology in the battletech universe during this timeline has actually devolved due to constant war (in and of itself contrary to our reality as war normaly drives tech advances). Trying to draw parallels to our reality and the fictional BT universe doesn't work (hell half the mechs would fall over if you followed our physics completely)

The big issue is IF 3rd person is allowed in the same aspect it is in say MW4 it gives a clear advantage over 1st person and more than just a tiny one.

[Mr Smiles]

Just thought I'd mention, from my State of the Sphere survey:

When asked, 162 people wanted third-person view in the game, and 314 did not want it.

While the minority of people--at roughly 33%--shouldn't be discounted, I think there's a clear majority of people who want it 1st person only.

In regard to the 'realism' argument: this is a fictional setting, with certain canonical technologies available and certain technologies not available. We can argue what's realistic and what's not forever, but at the end of the day, third person hovercams or 3D reconstructions of environments or whatever excuse you want to use are not a part of the BattleTech canon.

If you want to argue that gameplay would be balanced and fun for everyone, fine, if you want to argue that the previous MW games have had third person cameras, fine, but don't argue that it's 'realistic' for it to happen, because when it comes to fiction, realism has nothing to do with anything--all that matters is what's in the canon.

It's why LotR elves haven't advanced their technology past bows and arrows in spite of a 10,000 year head-start over humans. It's why Star Wars technology is the same regardless of which millennium you're looking at. It's why the gods in any D&D game don't just hand their 'champions', the players, nuclear missiles and infinite rings of wishes even though it's technically within their power: fun, and by extension self-consistency not putting off the fans, trumps realism any day.

Edited by Mr. Smiles, 20 February 2012 - 06:42 AM.

[CloakRogue]

i personaly love the cocpit view, and i really dont want someone watching me before i pop around the corner.

CloakRogue

[xXPHANTASMXx]

Using MW4 as an example, which by chance 99,9% of you never played online comptetitively, in a league, all the best players come from the 3rd person format, not because they cant "hang" (lol) in 1st person but mainly because all the cheesy role players and nubsauce use 1st person and they get demolished (in their own server, FFP restricted) nevermind normal servers, 99,9 percent of the servers were 3rd person (non FFP restricted), where did all the FFP lovers go if it is so popular, FFP was never popular in 2000 and it isn't now. These are the FACTS.

It's cute to throw around assuptions when you didn't play, the good news is now you don't have a campaign to hide in.

Edited by xXPHANTASMXx, 20 February 2012 - 07:00 AM.

[MaddMaxx]

xXPHANTASMXx, on 20 February 2012 - 06:59 AM, said:

Using MW4 as an example, which by chance 99,9% of you never played online comptetitively, in a league, all the best players come from the 3rd person format, not because they cant "hang" (lol) in 1st person but mainly because all the cheesy role players and nubsauce use 1st person and they get demolished (in their own server, FFP restricted) nevermind normal servers, 99,9 percent of the servers were 3rd person (non FFP restricted), where did all the FFP lovers go if it is so popular, FFP was never popular in 2000 and it isn't now. These are the FACTS.

It's cute to throw around assuptions when you didn't play, the good news is now you don't have a campaign to hide in.

Anyone? A .1%er perhaps? I am still marveling at how factual that lads facts are. Almost so factual as be fictional factual... Anyone?

[Halfinax]

xXPHANTASMXx, on 20 February 2012 - 06:59 AM, said:

Using MW4 as an example, which by chance 99,9% of you never played online comptetitively, in a league, all the best players come from the 3rd person format, not because they cant "hang" (lol) in 1st person but mainly because all the cheesy role players and nubsauce use 1st person and they get demolished (in their own server, FFP restricted) nevermind normal servers, 99,9 percent of the servers were 3rd person (non FFP restricted), where did all the FFP lovers go if it is so popular, FFP was never popular in 2000 and it isn't now. These are the FACTS.

It's cute to throw around assuptions when you didn't play, the good news is now you don't have a campaign to hide in.

You realize "most people" that played MW4 competitively used the 3rd person perspective because it gave them an advantage right? Which is the whole reason people are saying they don't want it in this game. It gave you a better field of view then the first person perspective. Obviously the best players used that perspective as it gave them an edge. This game (unlike MW 4) is not going to be an action shooter focused on a SP campaign, and therefore shouldn't take it's cues from the horribly broken MP aspect of MW 3/4.

First person only, or it just becomes another action shooter.

[drakkonis]

I vote for cockpit view, with radar and sensors.
If a third person is made available, then I'll be switching to that, as I feel it to be an advantage in PVP.

[Felix Dante]

I've always preferred first person viewpoint/simulator style mechwarrior...

However, having been "caught" in strange areas before it is nice to be able to view a third-person overhead-view so I can see the terrain around my mech for purposes of moving past obstacles or jumping.

A -quick-toggle view would be nice. 1st person should be primary however.

[Mechteric]

xXPHANTASMXx, on 20 February 2012 - 06:59 AM, said:

Using MW4 as an example, which by chance 99,9% of you never played online comptetitively, in a league, all the best players come from the 3rd person format, not because they cant "hang" (lol) in 1st person but mainly because all the cheesy role players and nubsauce use 1st person and they get demolished (in their own server, FFP restricted) nevermind normal servers, 99,9 percent of the servers were 3rd person (non FFP restricted), where did all the FFP lovers go if it is so popular, FFP was never popular in 2000 and it isn't now. These are the FACTS.

It's cute to throw around assuptions when you didn't play, the good news is now you don't have a campaign to hide in.

I take it you never played in NBT league, which was FFP and was amazingly popular for years, not to mention incredibly fun. Also many of the best pilots were in that league, so that false fact about player ability between 3rd person and First Person is completely baseless.

There's a reason why the 3rd person game mode of Call of Duty Modern Warfare 2 was so lame, and I think it applies to Mechwarrior as well. It not only pulls you out of the immersion, but it gives unrealistic advantages, and is 99.99% responsible for turning Mechwarrior 4 into a jump sniping, hill humping love fest. Sure, there's a reason why Mechwarrior 4 is mostly 3rd person servers nowadays, its because the guys who have gotten bored of Mechwarrior 4 or prefer first person have moved on to Mechwarrior Living Legends and are having a blast.

[MaddMaxx]

Felix Dante, on 20 February 2012 - 08:08 AM, said:

I've always preferred first person viewpoint/simulator style mechwarrior...

However, having been "caught" in strange areas before it is nice to be able to view a third-person overhead-view so I can see the terrain around my mech for purposes of moving past obstacles or jumping.

A -quick-toggle view would be nice. 1st person should be primary however.

If the game provides a cockpit view, a rear view (via monitor), a Left and Right side view (via monitor) what more does any pilot need to have full awareness of his surroundings?

A quick peek over that Hill, is still a quick peek you shouldn't have. Saying it would never be used for such purposes shows you have honor but what about those that may be less-honorable with their usage?

[Mechteric]

Who knows, maybe there will be a module to have a drone follow you so you can have that 3rd person view, at least until someone shoots it down

[Felix Dante]

MaddMaxx, on 20 February 2012 - 08:12 AM, said:

If the game provides a cockpit view, a rear view (via monitor), a Left and Right side view (via monitor) what more does any pilot need to have full awareness of his surroundings? A quick peek over that Hill, is still a quick peek you shouldn't have. Saying it would never be used for such purposes shows you have honor but what about those that may be less-honorable with their usage?

Sorry, I should have clarified better:

1. Switching between multiple views (more than 2) is annoying and time consuming. Having multiple screens (more than 2) in one view would be ultra-confusing. I'm talking about holding down a button to get a better view of immediate surroundings just to be able to get where you are going without bashing into a building or catching a foot on a rock. You could even lock-out weapons fire while viewing in this mode.

2. While I can understand that kind of view might include a peek at an enemy somehow hiding nearby, with the new LOS and Radar (Passive/Active) systems, and scan capabilities (heat/magnetic) that kind of problem would be obsolete right? You can either detect somone or you can't. If your third person view might show someone you wouldn't normally detect from your cockpit then the game should filter out that view of the enemy IMHO.

3. Finally, Jumping in a Mechwarrior computer game is usually not nearly as easy as it is in a tabletop game. Jumping to try and reach a higher position and you failing because your mech's foot catches on the edge...is just a waste of time and often gives your enemy an advantage as you fall down. Jump Jets are supposed to be able to give you a possible tactical advantage - not be a major hinderance. The fact we can now DFA in them is just a side benefit in my opinion.

[Aidan]

Durant Carlyle, on 19 February 2012 - 07:30 PM, said:

The people who did MWLL mentioned in a fan-made interview video (start at 3:36) that there was a problem in the game engine that prevented them from doing a third-person view. That same problem may affect MW:O.

For the record, I am all for keeping the game first-person only.

Durant Carlyle,

Piranha Games is a full licensee of CryENGINE3. MWLL is not a full licensee of CryENGINE2. Engine limitations confronting MWLL will not be the case with MW:O.

[NeoThoR]

I think there is a pretty easy answer for this..

If the game is setup to where you can make it FFP only or 3rd person only then 3rd person should be an option.

More options = different game play styles.

More options means I'm not going to get bored of the game as fast.

I would love to see 3rd person in this game but I do NOT want to see 3rd person being abused. In Mechwarrior 4 I took pride in being good in both 1st and 3rd person. But the matches I played in were either 3rd person only (if you were dumb enough to use 1st person.. then so be it) OR 1st person only (which gave no option for 3rd person)

If the game is designed like Mech4, and you can turn off 3rd if needed, I'd like to see 3rd person options. Sounds to me like it won't be this way though.

I'm all for having different camera views on the mech (mounted cameras - not floating, lol). Then maybe during battle certain camera views take damage from shots?

[Gremlich Johns]

Lightfoot, on 01 November 2011 - 12:45 PM, said:

I only play MW in first person. More realistic and I can see my teammate's/enemy's 'mechs so plenty of 'mechs to see.

ditto

[Havoc2]

Just because you can see them on the radar doesn't mean that you can attack them.


3rd person view doesn't do anything about being able to detect an enemy, but by having your target reticule ready to fire before it should be.
In the earlier days of MW4 it even went so far as being able to hit an enemy BEFORE someone in 1st person could hit them back (due to a bug allowing weapons to be fired through obsticles as long as the target reticule was on the enemy).
It also allowed missile locks to be gained before the enemy was fully visible. Think of being just behind the crest of a hill while your enemy is at the bottom. They can't see you but you can see them because your camera is behind and above you, giving you a different angle. You could get a weapons lock, crest the hill for just long enough to fire, then back out of sight.
This was the main problem of "pop-tarting" being able to see an enemy and get a weapons lock before they were able to see you (whether they saw you on radar or not is irrelevent).

Certain "laggier" players could also use this to be in sight, fire, and out of sight while appearing to not have even left cover.

As for the jumping and shooting, I have NO problem with it. I used a joystick and never had problems bringing my weapons to bear on a flying 'Mech. Or skeet as I called them.

[FEK315]

What if each mech came with 2 to 5, 3rd person probes?
every mech comes with 2 probes, you can buy more as a customization sacrificing other elements.

3rd person probe: is a probe launched by a mech that gives you a realtime view of the battlefield by changing your HUD into 3rd person for 5 to 10 seconds, it's almost like sticking your head outside of the mech to get a look with binoculars, you wouldn't wont to keep your head out there too long or like a probe being shot off it won't stay in the air too long before it falls back to earth.

Having an option like this would satisfy both camps, you could get a look at the battlefield but you couldn't play from a 3rd person.

FEK315...OUT!

Edited by FEK315, 20 February 2012 - 11:28 AM.

[Outlaw2]

Aegis Kleais™, on 20 February 2012 - 09:37 AM, said:

Here's my suggestion

While it certainly levels the playing field substantially, there are two problems that linger.

First, even with this feature, 3rd person will still be the preferred view. While you can no longer see mechs, you can still see over obstacles and get better bearings of the map before committing yourself to a certain action. Anyone that has played a map over and over again will know the usual spots of activity. With third person, you have a much better tool to survey the map which allows you to better prepare and position your mech and reticule before exposing yourself around the obstacle. I'd see no reason to ever use first person as it still puts you at a disadvantage (granted minimized). However its small advantages like this that pay off big in the end. PGI needs to decide if they want this game to be a first person or third person game...there is no both...unless you like playing at a disadvantage (however small it is). I believe they already decided on 1st.

Second, dev time to add this feature. I'd rather have the game now without this feature, than later with it.

Edited by =Outlaw=, 20 February 2012 - 11:46 AM.